As a general rule of thumb, Warriors simply can not counter your mage without the aid of his Warlock's Felhunter or teammates aggressiveness. If your Priest is countering their Druid while your Rogue is splitting damage on the Warlock and his pet, then you have elminated both threats to the Mage's ability to lock down whatever third they bring. This is obviously subject to a Reflect mid-game, but your line-up does not shine that far into the match. Your strength is in your powerful early-game. Druid/Warlock/X is an outlasting combo that requires time and well placed mana drains to swing the match into their favor.

I would suggest doing what you are already doing, except with your Rogue on their Warlock/Mage. Warlocks really can't do a whole lot as far as a casting bar is concerned inbetween hasted mace stuns and kicks. Your Priest needs to force the Druid into a lifebloom situation 'ala spam dispels. Basically, the only damage time X is going to have is if Blind is on a cooldown. They won't be able to keep up.

As far as 2healer/1warrior teams are concerned, I can't really speak from personal experience of playing either of the line-ups in question. What works for us, though, is harassing their Paladin (if they have one, otherwise their Shaman) to the point of having to bubble to heal while putting damage on their other healer. Take out whatever buff is helping him (keeping the priest too focused to dispel, knocking out windfuries, faking freedoms, etc) and lock him down. He doesn't really have a target that will give him a lot of rage, so the match will only get tight if it is drawn out.

Hm, maybe my Priest/Druid/Warrior team just needs more practise then. We went 4-6 tonight, with 9 of those games being PMRs, and it really seems to be if they're halfway competent we're going to lose :-\ I do my best to cyclone/root when I can, but the amount of burst damage/control they have is ridiculous.

Options 2) and 3) are how we lost every time, if they focus the priest it's not really that much of an issue. I don't have 4 piece, and stupid mace stun + rogue stuns leaves me trapped in bear forever, with my priest unable to help (CS, sheep, blind, etc). If they focus the warrior and CC the priest, we have no way to remove frost nova, which was sticking through a rogue wailing on him + shatter combos. Unless I already have a lot of HoTs up, I can't keep up with the damage

It might just come down to our warrior needing to play a bit better (and upgrading his internet connection from tin cans and string). Still, 29-16 for the season so far, and we might try some different nights this week to avoid the glut of PMR .

I run a PRM myself, not a very successful one, but we have our moments. I think that if you fuck up your CC chain as PRM, you will have a hard time getting back in the fight, but if you make full benefits of your sap, blind, fear and poly, you can win the fight in a matter of seconds.

I remember going up against a pala, warrior, priest yesterday, i got a sap in on all three (not full dur) before we engaged, the paladin was sapped in the end, and we sheeped the warrior, and we actually managed to burst the priest down before the paladin had a chance to dismount, bubble/trinket and do something about it. He might have been a lousy paladin, or maybe the sapping all the target confused him, but that doesnt change that if left alone, their priest was toast in 5-10 seconds.

My shaman's health was brought from 10k->0 in ~3 seconds at the hands of a PMR team the other day. PI'd shatter combo off the bat combined with what I assume must have been a muti rogue. It was awful.

@LL -- you really need the 4 piece bonus, it makes escaping melee infinitely easier.

We play Pally / Warrior / resto-shamn (2100 ish last season) and prety much got farmed by good RMP after all the buffs in 2.3.

However we have made a lot of adjustments and it's gotten much better recently.

Basically the good RMP teams have 2 sets of cooldowns and use them to perform 2 big bursts (AR + WE).

They will generally do their first burst imediatly, and the second burst shortly after.

The first thing we do is really focus on denying the roge his opener (duh!), then we plan out and use all of our cooldowns to survive the first burst, then we have our pally buble and spam through the second.

It's amazing how much popping the rogue early screws up this team. It means a lot more then just less early damage. If you pop the rogue your pally doesnt get sapped (can thus trinket blind), the poisions dont stack early, there is less early damage, and their focus target is not stuned and thus can avoid be spam purged early by the priest.

Either way our warrior starts on the rogue and as soon as he sees the AR animation he Disarms + Hamstring + Debuffs, then he intercepts the mage.

Once we get through the 2 heavy bursts and the other team is out of CD's (and getting low on mana usually) we switch to the Priest and go for the kill on him (this also denys mana burns which are punishing late game).

Hello, i currently run a pmr setup and we are doing fairly well in the start of the season. We hit 1850 quite easily going 14-0 after picking up a priest to replace a shaman. Right now we are currently 1921, trying to hit 2k for our shoulders. What seems to be happening is whenever we come across another PMR or a variation of it (pally, mage rogue), we run into alot of trouble, the reason being is that our priest just dies when rogue and mage is on him. Our strat is to go after their mage while trying to CC either rogue or their healer. My question is, if our priest is able to survive a rogue, im always on the mage so it is extremely hard for him to get a shatter combo off, however the priest still goes down and from that point on we lose, we mostly get the mage down to 20 30%, but priest isnt able to get that md off that easily since theres a rogue on him. How do you guys suggest countering this mirror match?

How do you generally do this? I'm assuming your profile's accurate and you guys are horde, which means no perception, and you obviously don't have a felhunter for paranoia.

I'm curious because even with engineering goggles and a warlock partner I've had rogues get openers on me, although this may simply be a function of my Aussie ping.

I'd be interested in any tips on unstealthing rogues for teams lacking both stealth-detection and non-PBAoEs.

Sounds like your shaman needs to play better, to be honest. These sorts of matchups are all about momentum.

If your shaman doesn't help interrupt the mage and ground stuff like poly, then the shaman has rogue+mage on him and the paladin is too busy healing to cleanse the warrior much, so the warrior can't control their DPS; meanwhile the priest isn't having to heal at all so he can mana burn the paladin who will eat some because he can't stop healing to LoS them or the shaman will die, and the mage can continue to control the warrior because he isn't being pressured either, and it spirals downward towards an ugly loss.

On the other hand, hamstring the rogue and get key interrupts on mage CC and now the mage is taking a beating, the rogue is burning cooldowns to try and contribute, and the priest is healing the mage instead of playing offensively with burns/fears.

Pal/Sham/War matches up well against PMR, but you need to keep the upper hand in terms of control. I don't necessarily advocate being super-aggressive. When the mage has an elemental up and the rogue has AR, etc., you probably don't want to be rushing at them. Play for control -- have the shaman focus on interrupting and grounding the mage's casts, you should keep hamstring/piercing on as many of them as possible to make it easy for your partners to LoS and/or kite them, kill the Elemental when you get a chance, and keep pressure on the mage. The shaman with poison cleansing and such should really be able to kite a rogue once his initial cooldowns are blown. The shaman shouldn't be "stunned all the time." Sometimes a mace stun will land right as you were hoping to shock a cast. That happens, and it sucks, but if the shaman is consistently looking to stop the mage from controlling the warrior, things should work out pretty well.

which is why a PMR should kill the paladin first vs restosham/pally/warrior.

How do you think guys, what's spec will be the best for rogue (RMP setup), after 2.3.2 with HARP nerf?
Combat mace, muti, still HARP? Or may be ShS? o_O

I'm pretty noob at arena - but one thing that i have seen in videos which have really caught out PMR's in mirror matches, is that both the mage and the rogue nuke the other mage, and the priest gets ready for a mass dispel. As soon as iceblock hits mass dispel and burn him down.

Early on your priest may probably take a beating from the other rogue, which could prove problems for mass dispel, but if everyone uses instant CC's properly (fear, blind, nova) and just rush the opposing mage that seems to be a pretty good "shock" tactic.