TheCutlery

Well, look at it from the person you're facing's perspective.

We CAN'T trinket out of that KS, or Cyclone or whatever now, because if there's a rogue on the other side, we need to save that trinket for blind. Basically just having a rogue on the other team now totally dictates whether it's okay for me to use my trinket or not. That's a pretty huge advantage there.

 

Tiiki

I think the same about intimidating shout (and very often save my trinket for that), since it's the only way I can ever get out of it-- and yours is AoE, so what's the big deal, really?

 

panny

Because there are multitude of counters to Intimidating Shout and only one to Blind?

Fix Spirit Wolves not responding to commands.
DK/Rogue

 

◊ Praetorian

Pretty much. Blind is the best CC in the game right now. As the sole healer in a 3v3, if I get blinded and cannot trinket it, the game is almost certainly over (assuming they used the blind at a remotely reasonable time). That in turn modifies my style of play. I might ride out a fear or poly if no one is going to die that very second, because I know that if I use my trinket on any lesser CC, I will get blinded (and often have that blind chained into something else like a silence or fear as blind is about to wear off) and we will lose. With the new PMR, you can really control one-healer teams between psychic scream, poly, and blind. The second their healer pops his trinket after, say, eating a fear, the other team is about to be in serious trouble.

 

D4vE

How many counters are there to cyclone and whats the cooldown on this spell? =)

It doesn't even matter if the target has dots running or stands in AE, cyclone still works. Blind is strong now, yes i admit that, but after 3 years of frustrating poison cleansing totem, abolish poison and stoneskin removal of our only relieable CC on a 3 min CD it was about time imo.

 

doogless

The counter to Cyclone is focusing the Druid so he's forced to heal, or Counterspelling/Earth Shocking/etc the cast. It also requires 3.5 seconds of casting time to last as long as blind. I realize you're not being completely serious in that objection, but Blind and Cyclone are very different, despite sharing DR and being unremovable.

 

◊ Praetorian

Cyclone has a cast time, can be Grounded (and if I'm facing a druid I have him focused to shock/ground as many of these as possible), has a shorter duration, and requires perfect (unrealistic) timing to chain into other forms of lockdown without any gap, because of the immunity effect that accompanies it.

If I'm blinded I can get feared when I have 1sec left on my blind, and then silenced as my fear ends. If I'm cycloned, good luck managing that before my NS macro goes off in the split second I have as cyclone ends. That can make all the difference right there.

 

• Mex

Shadow sight to protect against Blind / Poly is great. Beats BoSac anyday!

 

• Encross

Spec'ing Felguard was definatly a step in the right direction. We only lost to one PMR out of seven over the course of the night.

For any other similar line-ups struggling with PMR; have your Warrior split his damage on whatever is closest to him. The key is to have your Warlock timing a perfect death coil that will let your Warrior intercept for 5 seconds of breathing room. During that time, we would abolish crippling poison and hamstring kite the Rogue through his sprints and trinkets.

 

Vermis

as pmr has priest the sight can be dispelled, so thats about it. I find it problematic that this setup doesnt have any real counters and in 2.3.1 when mages get icy veins its allmost 1-shotting ppl when the healer gets locked. Imagine this cs druid/priest/pala/any healer, PI to mage pop elemental and IV rogue pops ar and blinds the last guy. How you survive that? With loads of defensive/offensive dispel they can drag it to wait game at some point that cs will be eaten.

Just makes me anxious to join the train in s3

 

Abakus

I think a priest with two felguard-locks might be able to counter PMR.

Without offensive and defensive dispell as well as strong defensive DD (preferable no melee) i can't imagine fighting this team (assuming equal skill).

 

• Mex

Hrmmmm, I could have sworn shadow sight couldn't be dispelled. Either it wasn't classed as a magic buff or it was classed as a debuff, so only an ally could dispel it. I may just be crazy though.

 

Abakus

Shadow Sight

Can't go and check it within the next few hours, but i think Shadow Sight is a) a debuff and b) not dispellable..

 

Mearis

Have the warlock respec SL/SL - affliction only makes sense as a build in the context of protecting other classes DoT.

 

Kaber

Actually I'm curious if Hunter/Priest/Rogue might be able to beat it. It's only 1 class away, though, so I don't know that you could properly call it a counter even if there was a chance they could win. Just to mess around I did a test run with alts this week - my 2v2 Warrior's poorly geared Priest, my poorly geared Hunter, and a decently geared Rogue. It was interesting, because we seemed to be bursting other teams rather than playing the longevity game like I was expecting. But this was at low ratings since we were just messing around. I'm also not sure on where I stand with the spec for my Hunter or the Priest. He tried full Holy then full Discipline, but his gear was so bad it did not really make any difference in his survivability that we could see. If this turns out to be more of a burst team, I may try Beast Mastery instead of Marksman since I would not need to protect Viper sting as much. Anyway, I just found it interesting, and I'm curious to see how it actually stacks up in theory or practice with people that might have more experience on a PMR or PHR.

 

Abakus

You will be able to outlast them, but with the changes to the mage class, i think the team with the mage will be the winner (counterspell, icy veins, good usage of PI, poly).

Sooner or later the priest will eat a poly, and when he uses his trinket, he is vulnerable to blind.
Within that timespan, the hunter will be in serious trouble...

 

Currylaksa

Atm, SL doesn't begin to mitigate the burst that new-improved rogues and PIed mages are dishing out.

Charging into the midst can open up a fear blind combo on you, which is good game.

It's a multitude of dilemmas here. Charge and you might get chain-CCed, don't charge and the warrior gets sheeped. Cyclone and you might be CSed, don't cyclone and your healing might not keep up. Expose to heal and you get mana burned, heal conservatively and your hots/abolish gets dispelled.

 

Tiiki

Stupid question here- but is it the case, therefore, that one SHOULD purge spam against druid healing? I was always of the impression that spammed lifebloom being continually purged made this more than selfdefeating? Especially as lifebloom is insanely cheap and heals for a big chunk on each dispel?

 

◊ Praetorian

It depends on your situation. If you're just doing it randomly in a mana war of attrition, that's probably not a very good idea. You're wasting your mana. But if the target is getting focused, then yes, a lifebloom popping every GCD isn't going to be enough healing to keep him up. That forces the druid to do something else, with a cast time. Either start casting regrowths or cyclone/roots (or blow his NS which is a temporary answer), which opens him up to interrupts and lockout. My logic is that if I have the upper hand in terms of dictating the pace (i.e. I'm in a position where I'm able to dispel instead of frantically spamming heals or something) then I want to pressure the druid. A druid with a safe set of HoTs on his target can turn his attention to more offensive/utility play, duck out of combat to drink, etc. A druid with no HoTs at all on his target needs to pay much more attention to healing.

 

Mirya

As a warlock, I finished season 2 at 1992 rating with a rogue, druid, warlock group in 3v3. I definitely recommend that warlocks try out felguard spec for 3v3 and 5v5. It has good synergy with warrior & rogue teammates, as the felguard benefits from battle shout and hemorrhage. More importantly, the felguard allows the warlock to continue to do DPS and thus apply pressure to opponents while the warlock himself is being locked down by a melee class.

The felguard's melee and cleave attacks together causes a good amount of spell pushback when put on a priest or mage. If the warlock also maintains CoT on that target, it effectively locks them down to casting nothing but instants. A felguard will cause a mage a lot of trouble, as its Avoidance ability gives it a 50% chance to resist AoE effects - that includes frost nova, which is one of the few ways a mage can get away from a felguard. It's very hard for a mage to cast polymorph when he has both CoT and a felguard damaging him causing spell pushback. Ice barrier might help a mage against spell pushback against a felhunter, but a felguard will do enough damage to drop the ice barrier in short order. Especially on a team without any defensive dispels to remove a mage's CC (ie if you use a druid or shaman healer yourself), the felguard will put a lot of pressure on the mage - just be sure to keep CoT up on all times on the mage as well.

My felguard has about 225 resists to all spells in arena, thanks to the Void Star Talisman trinket and my druid teammate's mark of the wild buff. With the exception of the 2v2 bracket, I think felguard will really start to shine as one of the better specs for warlocks in arena season 3.

 

crimsonsentinel

Keep in mind that the only time the bloom part of lifebloom actually ticks is when the last stack of lifebloom is removed. Remove 2/3 lifebloom stacks? no bloom. Remove rejuv and regrowth hots? no bloom. I always dispel hots if there is something other than a single lifebloom on the target. Abolish poison as well if you have a rogue on your team.

 

Tiiki

Interesting, never knew that, nor that stacks got purged individually (though that obviously makes sense, just hadn't thought). So the bloom from a purged lifebloom will be a '1 stack bloom' vs the '3 stack bloom' if it was left to run its course?

 

Currylaksa

Lifebloom bloom is too small an amount to punish purge-happy shamans/priests. But more importantly, purging removes rejuvenation which means no swiftmend. When druid HoTs fall behind, they get into a downward spiral of catching up with healing. They expose themselves to a plethora of CCs, mana burns, and they won't have time to cyclone/bash. Purging abolish means wound poison and crippling will stack to match-winning amounts.

For all the shamans whining about relying on casted heals, they never considered the heavy downside of relying on HoTs against teams with offensive dispels.

 

Aphyrax

There is no "3 stack bloom". You always get only one bloom at the end no matter how many lifeblooms were applied.

 

• Mex

I'm planning to get the arena idol simply to give a bit of an extra edge vs purge happy teams. No idea how effective it will be, but it can't hurt if I'm relying mostly on purged LBs for my healing.

edit: "edge" may not be the right word. Fighting chance perhaps.