The new Priest/Mage/Rogue (PMR) - Page 4

crimsonsentinel · 11/27/07, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by Tiiki

Stupid question here- but is it the case, therefore, that one SHOULD purge spam against druid healing? I was always of the impression that spammed lifebloom being continually purged made this more than selfdefeating? Especially as lifebloom is insanely cheap and heals for a big chunk on each dispel?

Keep in mind that the only time the bloom part of lifebloom actually ticks is when the last stack of lifebloom is removed. Remove 2/3 lifebloom stacks? no bloom. Remove rejuv and regrowth hots? no bloom. I always dispel hots if there is something other than a single lifebloom on the target. Abolish poison as well if you have a rogue on your team.

Tiiki · 11/27/07, 9:30 PM

Interesting, never knew that, nor that stacks got purged individually (though that obviously makes sense, just hadn't thought). So the bloom from a purged lifebloom will be a '1 stack bloom' vs the '3 stack bloom' if it was left to run its course?

Currylaksa · 11/27/07, 10:15 PM

Lifebloom bloom is too small an amount to punish purge-happy shamans/priests. But more importantly, purging removes rejuvenation which means no swiftmend. When druid HoTs fall behind, they get into a downward spiral of catching up with healing. They expose themselves to a plethora of CCs, mana burns, and they won't have time to cyclone/bash. Purging abolish means wound poison and crippling will stack to match-winning amounts.

For all the shamans whining about relying on casted heals, they never considered the heavy downside of relying on HoTs against teams with offensive dispels.

Aphyrax · 11/27/07, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tiiki

Interesting, never knew that, nor that stacks got purged individually (though that obviously makes sense, just hadn't thought). So the bloom from a purged lifebloom will be a '1 stack bloom' vs the '3 stack bloom' if it was left to run its course?

There is no "3 stack bloom". You always get only one bloom at the end no matter how many lifeblooms were applied.

• Mex · 11/27/07, 11:29 PM

I'm planning to get the arena idol simply to give a bit of an extra edge vs purge happy teams. No idea how effective it will be, but it can't hurt if I'm relying mostly on purged LBs for my healing.

edit: "edge" may not be the right word. Fighting chance perhaps.

Diao · 11/28/07, 8:46 AM

Is there any way to defeat PMR without having a druid on your team as a warrior? It just doesn't seem like any setup I've tried can beat it. I've tried disc priest and holy pally, holy pally and lock (both felguard and sl/sl), priest and lock, rogue and priest/pally and we keep getting absolutely destroyed by PMR as long as the priest is disc. We had no trouble beating PMR when the priest was shadow as they always go for me being the warrior, and once I survive until they're oom we can win, but with a disc priest we just get completely locked down and unable to stay on the priest to prevent mana burns. Either they go straight for me (as they usually do) and I can't interrupt the priest from burning, or they burn down our priest when running priest/pally, or they keep chain ccing us while burning down the other dps or healer. It just doesn't seem like there's any way to beat them unless they make a mistake even if we play perfectly.

♦ Praetorian · 11/28/07, 11:30 AM

Going on the priest seems like the wrong call to me there. I'd think hamstringing the rogue and pressuring the mage would work better. Ideally you want to force the priest to heal while your healer(s) focus on LoSing mana burns. Kite the rogue around as he burns his timers to keep on his target, and keep some pressure on the mage so he can't poly. It varies, though. With pal/lock/war, as noted earlier in the thread, if the lock is felguard, putting the felguard on the mage and having your warrior control their rogue seems like the way to go.

In any event, trying to kill a discipline priest while leaving a mage and a rogue to run relatively free seems like a bad idea.

BrTarolg · 11/29/07, 5:00 PM

Hey guys, recently I've decided to get a lot more into PVP, and I was thinking of doing a PMR team, seeing as one of my best friends is a very skilled discipline priest (does lots of arena) , and naturally im a frost mage(does very little arena until now :P).

However, i'm relatively new to arena, and I honestly have no idea what to do in 3v3.

After reading the thread a few times, I (think) i've managed to glean this much -
The general idea of PMR is to have the rogue take on and stun the other clothie (either a lock, shadowpriest or holy priest or the likes, or maybe a shaman or something), for the mage to CC the enemy melee, and to burn the enemy healer's trinket so that you can use blind on him + polymorph and counterspell to lock the healer down whilst you burst down the rogues target.

Right? I'm sort of looking for the general idea of what to do, and i reckon i can figure out the finer details myself via practise in arena.

Also, does anyone know what the most common matchups are in 3v3 arena to come against? I can see from the thread that with lock+warr+druid have the rogue go for the lock and have the mage CC (poly+nova) the warr and burst the warr down, but i honestly don't know much about many 3v3 setups (i'm told that it's similar to 2v2 but with extra person, so things like Priest/mage go with mage/rogue to make PMR, or resto druid/warr and lock/druid to make lock druid warr).

Am i right on this? Or am i just going horribly wrong?

Zure · 11/29/07, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by BrTarolg

Also, does anyone know what the most common matchups are in 3v3 arena to come against? I can see from the thread that with lock+warr+druid have the rogue go for the lock and have the mage CC (poly+nova) the warr and burst the warr down, but i honestly don't know much about many 3v3 setups (i'm told that it's similar to 2v2 but with extra person, so things like Priest/mage go with mage/rogue to make PMR, or resto druid/warr and lock/druid to make lock druid warr).

Am i right on this? Or am i just going horribly wrong?

You generally have the right idea. The mage and rogue should burn the same target, however. Here, it will be the warlock.

Priest should pressure the druid with mana burns and fears to keep him from standing still and should use dispel aggressively to cut the warlock's dps/healing to nil, while keeping abolish off the burn target.

Mage should reposition while casting instants to always be in CS range of the druid to block his CC, while watching out for feral charge on a polymorph. Polymorph can be used as an emergency interrupt on the druid.

Vuldoo · 11/30/07, 2:51 AM

I too believe that the analysis here was skewed because the original analysis was written by the warrior, who is obviously most concerned (and bothered) by the mage.

There are two aspects in my opinion which prevent you from beating them.

a) you let them dictate the game

b) your druid commits suicide because he is afraid of death.

The chain reaction goes like this: The rogue puts immense pressure on your warlock, which leaves the frost mage free to deal with the warrior, which gives the priest the chance to put pressure on the druid. You want to get into a situation where the priest needs to heal.

If this would have been written up by the warlock, most people would probably have focussed on dealing with the rogue. And indeed that seems to be the way to go. Put pressure on the rogue early. Use the druid's bash on him, piercing howl, hamstring. That way you will alleviate the pressure on the warlock, giving him time to take the attention of the mage of you.

Your druid loses his most useful abilities simply due to a threat, the threat of a counterspell. I would strongly advise him to risk it. Even if the counterspell is successful, with more pressure on the rogue and the mage and subsequent pressure on the priest to help his teammates you should easily survive those seconds and will have cyclones at your disposal after it wears off.

sprinkles · 11/30/07, 3:16 AM

My PMR made it quite easy to Gladiator but I think we still have a lot of room to improve. On the subject on druid teams and offensive dispel: I always try to wipe all buffs from the called assist target (or targets if we know the group and have to switch to surprise them), but I (the priest) and my rogue often argue about getting Abolish Poison off or not. With constant Lifebloom heals after the purge and the difficulty of actually hitting the dispel vs the 30% resist talent, I wonder if my mana would be better spent elsewhere (pressure the druid with mana burns, dispel the others etc).

Tiiki · 11/30/07, 5:31 AM

Well even if you ignore Wound, keeping abolish off keeps Crippling on, which keeps the target in LOS and keeps the rogue on him infinitely more easily.

Then again, I am biased

Nerull · 11/30/07, 6:44 AM

Im thinking of creating a warlock ( me, going felguard ) , Hunter ( not sure if BM or MM is best nowadays ) and disc priest. It seems to me this combo is rather strong againt PMR even , anyone who has this setup and can comment on it ?

Maynard · 11/30/07, 7:35 AM

Originally Posted by sprinkles

My PMR made it quite easy to Gladiator but I think we still have a lot of room to improve. On the subject on druid teams and offensive dispel: I always try to wipe all buffs from the called assist target (or targets if we know the group and have to switch to surprise them), but I (the priest) and my rogue often argue about getting Abolish Poison off or not. With constant Lifebloom heals after the purge and the difficulty of actually hitting the dispel vs the 30% resist talent, I wonder if my mana would be better spent elsewhere (pressure the druid with mana burns, dispel the others etc).

I think it's worthwhile if the rogue has a full wound stack up (usually following an extended kite while AR is up, or, if I'm sloppy, an untrinketable fear/blind) , but otherwise I wouldn't bother. When a full wound stack is up, it's important that we get rid of it ASAP and we'll likely attempt to roll lifeblooms rather than keep a single one on. In a PI-shatter combo/AR situation, single lifebloom procs are not sufficient to keep a target up, so even if you're proccing them every 3rd dispel or so (considering it'll hit abolish half the time, and when it hits lifebloom, it has a 30% chance to resist), it's not going to turn the match.

Offensive dispel on my abolish when full wound is up has been a key factor in many of my warr/dru/lock team's losses.

Im thinking of creating a warlock ( me, going felguard ) , Hunter ( not sure if BM or MM is best nowadays ) and disc priest.

I've been debating getting my hunter in to a hunter/warr/priest team to try and compete with PMR. Frost trap should aid against double sprint, two high-AC targets (incl. Hunter w/deterrance through AR) forces them to go for the priest, who with pain suppression should hopefully be able to survive offensive dispel spam. Meanwhile the warrior could beat on the enemy priest, and the hunter could put the pet on the mage and use silence/scatter to prevent sheep on the warrior.

Pure theory, of/c.

Shade · 11/30/07, 10:10 AM

MoB used warlock/hunter/priest to beat Pandemic's PMR in the Dreamhack 3v3 tournament yesterday, handing Pandemic their first loss ever in tournament pvp.

I don't know enough about any of the classes to know exactly why this is a good matchup, but you can't argue with the results.