What this means is simple and ugly for mages. No more impact/frostbite procs on pets. No more impact procs or frostbite/IL combos unless it comes from a nuke (I think I cast about two frostbolts per arena).
Just as bad from a Spriest's end. Nothing like the opening shot hitting innerfire and a later shot taking out your shield and critting for 3k. Not to mention we have no blink to close faster.
On Topic:
Randoness in Arena keeps them from becomeing static. I HATE that lucky mace stun as much as anyone, but I've just as many "blackout locks" that allowed me to get back to range and tear into someone.
Calling fear over balanced, from my point of view, is just silly. With talents (that few take) and the 3sec S3 glove bonus you are still looking at a 23 sec CD and most will have some from of fear break...at least once...in that amount of time. So for a priest, fear is no longer a defensive ability, it's offensive scatter them out so one can be singled and destroyed.
Mace stuns, I'm tempted to agree that they should stack with the pile of other stuns in a rogues arsenal for DR purposes. I also don't like taking 10k stunlocks with little to no defense.
I think Randomness was introduced on purpose with a other elements to hide the natural imbalance of the game: Pillars for example, why they were introduced? Wow has never been and hide and seek game, protection through environment objects has never been part of the game from the beginning (in fact in world Pvp you can still shot through hills and trees). The ability to move should not be part of the strategy, this is not Quake (damn hunters). Removing randomness at this point would brake the very thin equilibrium of the game in pieces
Being a healer with instant casts I'm pretty biased but I really like the dynamic pillars bring to the table. Once you know the basics of what you have to do the whole game becomes one of timing, co-ordination, and positioning. I know that right now the biggest failing my 3v3 at least has now is that we don't position as well as we should and we don't co-ordinate changes in position as solidly as we should. I like the fact that the difference between winning and losing can be whether my paladin moves into a position to be out of LOS of the mage and still be able to heal me where I will be when he needs to heal. They have to televise where they need to be in the future and I have to be aware of where their mage is, where my paladin is, and move in such a way that the paladin can continue to avoid the mage, all while still trying to get away from the rogue. I think I'm gushing a bit too much about it but I really do like what pillars do to the game.
It's time to re-allow gear swapping. With the introduction of decent set of alternative offhands/wands/weapons with spell penetration, there really isn't an argument in saying that casters classes can't do anything at all against people wearing resist gear. To help cut down on extreme cases where people wear 365~ of a given resist stat just have pvp resist calculation not include anything past 180 as a maximum. Whether the number is appropriate is up for debate, but even wearing BT crafted shadow resistance comes at a hefty stat point cost: there's no reason why players shouldn't have this option available to them without benefiting from an extreme that grants near immunity.
Gear swapping was disallowed almost entirely because of teams that maxed out shadow resistance against teams who relied predominantly on shadow spells. A more equitable middle ground is appropriate and would also fix the /ignore issue that many people, myself included even as someone who uses it when I play a paladin, feel is contrary to the spirit of fair PvP.
For the people complaining about mace stuns in general, play a melee class in any 2200+ bracket, you will think they are 100% necessary to be competitive. I, of course, speak more of mace spec for rogues than warriors, but as damage increases and resilience stays the same, warriors are feeling it too.
The mechanics that really tick me off are how some classes can stack stamina and resilience in all enchants and gem slots and gear slots, be accompanied by a healer and double their effectiveness. While as a rogue stacking the ability to survive, diminishes the effectiveness of my cooldowns, which if they have all been used, I am generally a talentless caster pet with decent white damage.
They also need to nerf what is available to players in the starting area. How is it fair a warlock can sac a voidwalker and have a huge damage shield buff, allowing him to enter battle in small scale arenas very offensively without much worry? Same goes with warrior shout exploiting, I don't get to start the game with 200 energy. I would also have them finally remove the damn /ignore feature, I know who I'm fighting against!
Was fighting a ton of games against a lock/rogue 2v2 where the lock started with void shield, then if he needed to he'd sac his felhunter, fel dominate a void, sac that and if things got too bad he was wearing the engineering shield belt. Ridiculous when combined with his over 12,600hp and double resilience bonuses from gladiator gear for bloated resilience totals.
I'd give up mace stuns, and preparation, if rogues were balanced so that I could stack survivability and still be effective. But instead, I must rushdown my targets. Don't hate on maces without seeing why they are necessary to be effective.
Don't hate on maces without seeing why they are necessary to be effective.
I see rogue maces and warrior maces as very different things honestly. Rouges already have a ton of ways to break a cast and I generally find myself assuming, and playing, with that in mind. Warriors on the other hand, have pummel, and Intim shout should they choose to use it. That's entirely reasonable, you can plan and play with that in mind. What you cannot do, is plan for a stormherald or mace stun proc interupting a Mindcontrol or a heal, and that's really the problem. There's no real way to counter something you can't plan for, and that's why stun-procs are so frustrating.
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
For the people complaining about mace stuns in general, play a melee class in any 2200+ bracket, you will think they are 100% necessary to be competitive. I, of course, speak more of mace spec for rogues than warriors, but as damage increases and resilience stays the same, warriors are feeling it too.
The mechanics that really tick me off are how some classes can stack stamina and resilience in all enchants and gem slots and gear slots, be accompanied by a healer and double their effectiveness. While as a rogue stacking the ability to survive, diminishes the effectiveness of my cooldowns, which if they have all been used, I am generally a talentless caster pet with decent white damage.
They also need to nerf what is available to players in the starting area. How is it fair a warlock can sac a voidwalker and have a huge damage shield buff, allowing him to enter battle in small scale arenas very offensively without much worry? Same goes with warrior shout exploiting, I don't get to start the game with 200 energy. I would also have them finally remove the damn /ignore feature, I know who I'm fighting against!
Was fighting a ton of games against a lock/rogue 2v2 where the lock started with void shield, then if he needed to he'd sac his felhunter, fel dominate a void, sac that and if things got too bad he was wearing the engineering shield belt. Ridiculous when combined with his over 12,600hp and double resilience bonuses from gladiator gear for bloated resilience totals.
I'd give up mace stuns, and preparation, if rogues were balanced so that I could stack survivability and still be effective. But instead, I must rushdown my targets. Don't hate on maces without seeing why they are necessary to be effective.
I got gladiator in 5v5s with an axe. Also the rage exploit doesn't work anymore since you have no way to get in combat in the starting area - bloodrage doesn't put you in combat anymore.
I think people blame their losses on luck far too often. I get as frustrated as anyone when dispel-resist talents prevent my escape artist from working or I get stun resists on both charge and intercept when trying to catch someone sprinting, mounted or in travel form, but the amount of losses that can be attributed to randomness alone is really quite small.
Far, far more often, losses that are blamed on randomness could be prevented by better play. More consistent interrupts, better use of line of sight, better crowd control, faster dispels, both offensively and defensively. Even more games are won or lost based on tactical and strategy decisions. Should your mage focus on keeping your priest alive or going for some burst damage on theirs? Is it worth line of sighting your healers to get out of line of sight of their hunter? Are they doing enough damage to me that I should go defensive stance and run, or can I safely use this extra rage to drop someone? Counterspell the elemental shaman or the paladin? What player to target with damage, what player to target with mana burns, etc.
One aspect of the game I seldom see mentioned as far as needing a closer look is dispel mechanics. Talents that make things harder to dispel (rogue poisons) or changes that allow more classes to dispel buffs (hunter arcane shot) are often taken lightly and I think have absolutely huge impact on game balance. Currently I think there are two main issues with dispels:
1. Offensive dispels are too cheap and almost no oppertunity cost: Things like purge, arcane shot, fel hunters, priest dispel have no downside and some are even completely spammable. It requires no thinking, just a GCD. This has huge implications as far as game balance. Playing my resto shaman e.g. in pvp, there are so many dispel effects around now, that earth shield hardly ever stays up vs most and it is a 41 pt talent at a hefty mana cost. Same goes when playing my mage, every single mage talent buff can be dispelled at very little to no cost to the opponent with huge implications and mana cost to the mage. Just think how much weaker resto druids would be if lifebloom didn't heal when dispelled. Overall there seems to be no consistancy or philosophy over what should/shouldn't be dispelled or have dispel resists.
2. The second problem is the classification of what can and can't be dispelled. Almost all caster buffs gained from talents including arcane power, PI, shields, HoTs etc can be dispelled. However, almost no melee ability can be. Arcane power can be dispelled from a mage, yet AR cannot from a rogue. Even more curious is that shamnastic rage can be displled yet Beast Within cannot. I am not saying make everything dispellable. I just think some of these things deserve a closer look as it is a huge part of pvp.
I think they need to retool their dispel system a bit overall. Either every high end talent should have some inherent dispel resist or offensive dispels should be more strategic with possible tradeoffs. e.g. make it so if you dispel a particular high end talent, you can silence or stun yourself for x secs (much like UA but for offensive dispels).
Paladins are the worst with luck based talents. Fully specced holy/prot a paladin can pick up:
10% fear and disorient resist
15% Curse and disease resist
10% chance to have attacks against you cause half damage (not that people typically pick this one up, but still)
10% stun resist, 30% dispel resist
NONE of these actually make arena more fun for the Paladin or the people fighting the Paladin. They may as well replace all of these with a talent that says "Sometimes things the other team does to you will fail".
These should be replaced with more interactive things. Here are a couple I pulled out of my ass:
After you use a judgement, you gain the Ain't Your Bitch effect for three seconds. Ain't Your Bitch grants 100% immunity to silence and interrupt effects.
Your flash of light ability increases your movement speed by 15% for six seconds.
I think they need to retool their dispel system a bit overall. Either every high end talent should have some inherent dispel resist or offensive dispels should be more strategic with possible tradeoffs. e.g. make it so if you dispel a particular high end talent, you can silence or stun yourself for x secs (much like UA but for offensive dispels).
I tend to agree on the anti-dispel mechanics. Having either a perk to any class only armor's dispelled would be nice. I'd prefer that to the dispeller being stunned etc. I'd rather get something out of my buffs disappearing and make the received buff undispellable. Something like:
Molten Armor could decrease the chance to be crit by X% for Y seconds.
Fel Armor could increasing healing received by X% for Y seconds.
Inner Fire could increase armor by X (or X%) for Y seconds.
In my opinion the options are limited due to the fact that a mage won't recast Molten Armor if it's dispelled due to the mana cost / inability to regain mana. Who cares what buff it gives him if you know once it's gone, it's gone. While a warlock could (under the right conditions of course) hit a low level tap and recast. Out of the 3 mentioned, only Inner Fire is meant to be re-casted regularly (20 charges).
On dispel costs, while Spellsteal isn't along the same lines as Dispel Magic/Purge/Cleanse/Arcane Shot. The mana costs vary quite a bit.
Spellsteal - 29% base (650 mana)
- offensive, 1 magic, gain 1 stolen buff, 2 min duration
- 30 yard range
Cleanse - 6% base mana (81 mana - VERIFY)
- defensive 1 magic (disease+poison as well)
- 2/2 talent 10% cost reduction, 25->27 points Holy (72 mana)
- 40 yard range
Dispel Magic 14% base mana (300 mana - VERIFY)
- offensive + defensive, 2 magics
- 3/3 talent, 15% cost reduction, 10->13 points Discipline (285/270/255)
- 5/5 talent, 10% cost reduction, 15->20 points Discipline (294 to 230)
- 30 yard range
Purge - 8% base mana (130 mana - VERIFY)
- offensive, 2 magics
- 30 yard range
Arcane Shot - 135 to 230 mana
- offensive, 1 magic
- does damage
- [RAP * 0.15 + 91] Arcane damage. (rank 5)
- [RAP * 0.15 + 273] Arcane damage (rank 9)
- 5/5 talent, 10% cost reduction, 10->15 points Marksmanship (121 to 207)
- 6 second cooldown, 1 second reduction with talents, 15->20 points Marksmanship
- 35 yard range, 41 with talents 3/3, 3 points Survival (0->3) [VERIFY]
Devour Magic - 330 mana
- offensive + defensive, 1 magic
- 8 second cooldown
- 30 yard range (mobile)
- pet specific, only one pet summoned at a time
- heals felhunter for 915 if an effect is eaten
I tried to get up some of the similarity's and differences. I agree there should be a downside to Spellsteal because you gain the buff you steal, but the mana cost is well over 2x the next highest. While there are no downsides to Arcane Shot other than a 6 to 5 second cooldown, and you can't dispel sheeped/trapped targets and has at a minimum a 5 yard farther range than the other offensive dispels. Not counting the mobile felhunter.
Please note I'm not at home and can't verify the costs on the dispels, I just looked at some base int on the armory and did [base int x 15 = cost]. Some of them don't seem quite right like the Cleanse / Purge.
Last edited by Acustar : 11/29/07 at 12:43 PM.
Originally Posted by Sebudai
Addons aren't a crutch, they're tools to be abused by skilled players to increase performance. Like a carpenter using a hammer, a fisherman using a lure, or Xi using curse words.
What mechanics do you think are random, unfair or just plain dumb? What do you think is poor design, and should be changed to make the Arena game better and fairer? What would you suggest the best way to "fix" the mechanic in question?
Things to post:
"Mace stun is silly because it pushes a massive random factor in the game that is signifcant enough define a win or a loss. If it doesn't proc, it feels underpowered, if it procs twice in a row at the right time, it can change the entire game. A proc should not be able to do this. A good idea to address this would be to make Mace stun have an extremely high proc rate, but a 45 silent cooldown.
Personally we have enough stuns as it is. Mace stuns should be removed from the game completely.
Things not to post:
"Kidney shot is OP, in fact, Rogues are OP. I hate Rogues. Blizzard are stupid."
I'll begin with my most disliked mechanic. Fear.
Fear duration can be extraordinary retarded at times. Both ways, it can break too early, or too late. Sometimes it breaks after 1 tick of damage, other times not even after 6000+ damage is done. This is very very poor design and downright stupid for a game like Arena. The sheer randomness of allowing an ability to potentially take out a target without them ever regaining control of their character is just plain bad design.
And again, the fact that it can break if the target has a DoT on it in literally 0.5 seconds after you've casted is stupid aswell. Randomness is the number one frustration in the Arena game.
My favourite solution for Fear is to put a damage cap based on level of the target. For a level 70 character, fear should instantly break when 1000 damage is applied to the feared target, during the fear duration. This allows warlocks to manage what exactly they want this fear to accomplish, do they want it just to have time to apply dots to it, or do they want to CC a healer for full duration? I think it would not gimp Warlocks in any sense at all, but rather remove some randomness for all parties involved.
I'm all for that if Rogues have a longer cooldown on CoS and have the spell immunity removed from the ability completely.
It's bad enough rogues can stun lock opponents but for Warlocks in particular, being able to completely remove DOTS and be immune to spells is ridiculously OP. Let's not even talk about the rogue being Undead.
Fear immunity.
Instant vanish.
Complete DOT immunity.
Ability to completely incapacitate a target.
Locks have 2 things. DOTS(DAMAGE) and FEAR(CC). They do not have burst damage. These two things are constantly being nullified by new additions to the game with no real balance on the other end of the spectrum.
And now ALL Mages can instantly remove DOTS as well.
I propose we remove the Warlock class all together since there's been so much QQ'ing about them that their only two REAL offensive abilities have been neutered to death....
Let's toss in resilience and mortal strike as well just for fun. Drain life isn't a healing spell, isn't even described as one, but it got a HEALING nerf....
This is a ridiculous thread. Or it's turning into one.
Cry more, warlock, is what I want to say to the above poster, really.
(Sap and gouge are free? And allow damage to be done? That's news to me. Gouge is 45 energy!)
Warlocks have TONS of instants and can put out a load of damage even whilst being 'locked down'.
Huh? What????
Even if a Rogue is caught in stealth and dotted up, all the Rogue has to do is use CoS, go back to stealth, SAP and then proceed to stun lock and kill a Warlock. Rogues QQed enough to have Blizz make Warlocks instant honor points for Rogues.
Your talents are instant. It's hard to cast "instant dots" when you're stunned long enough to go from 11k hp to ZERO in the span of about 6 seconds. I'm constantly stun locked till death by rogues without being able to do a single point of damage to a rogue. And when you use CoS and I happen to have my trinket off CD, you are IMMUNE to spells for at least 4 seconds. Quite enough time to vanish and sap me again.
Give me a break.
Quite apart from the number of awesomely capable kiting warlocks I've played against. If you have the required HP / Resi and good healers you'll be alive well after all the stun DRs are in progress and a mace rogue doesn't have too much after his initial cooldowns.
I can't believe I just wrote that, but anyway- basically- any chance this thread will be more than crying about stuns/fear?
nb: I haven't complained about fear despite being a Troll Rogue who gets owned by it all the time :P
Rogues are bad enough.
Undead Rogues are even worse.
That wouldn't work with CS/KS (or Charge/Intercept) - the procs would all be lost in those early 10 stun seconds. Then you'd have 20 sec controlled stun DR and 45 second Mace Stun 'cooldown' overlapping. Not to mention the fact that Mace Stuns are very often wasted through overlapping with these other stuns ALREADY.
Equally- Mace Stuns already have DR, so after the 3rd you have 20 secs of immune already...
I'm usually dead after the first or second anyway....
Locks have 2 things. DOTS(DAMAGE) and FEAR(CC). They do not have burst damage. These two things are constantly being nullified by new additions to the game with no real balance on the other end of the spectrum.
I laugh at statements like this. 1200+ in ticking dots with a felhunter spelllocking your opposition with a shadowbolt night fall proc shadowbolt shadowburn while your healer has CoT IS burst. It is significant burst. It is, in many cases, unmatchable and unbeatable burst.
I really wish people would stop pretending that warlocks don't have burst. They do. And it is on top of the ability to apply constant healing/cleansing pressure across the spectrum.
This is not a 'ZOMG LOCKS ARE OP' comment, I just get tired of hearing that warlocks don't have burst when they have lots of ways to safely do SIGNIFICANT chunks of damage at a second's notice.
I laugh at statements like this. 1200+ in ticking dots with a felhunter spelllocking your opposition with a shadowbolt night fall proc shadowbolt shadowburn while your healer has CoT IS burst. It is significant burst. It is, in many cases, unmatchable and unbeatable burst.
One word: SILENCE
Two words: STUN LOCKED.
Impossible to DOT or FEAR anythign when you are stun locked. Mace stuns are happening a ton while being intercepted by a warrior and stunned by a Paladin.
I really wish people would stop pretending that warlocks don't have burst. They do.
They do, they just can not use it.
And it is on top of the ability to apply constant healing/cleansing pressure across the spectrum.
This is not a 'ZOMG LOCKS ARE OP' comment, I just get tired of hearing that warlocks don't have burst when they have lots of ways to safely do SIGNIFICANT chunks of damage at a second's notice.
Have you played a warlock? Try one in the BG or Arena some time. You'd be surprised how often you are stunned or silenced in the BGs. Oh, can't fear that guy. He's undead. Oh can't fear that guy, he's a warrior. Oh crap, silenced again. Oh look, it's a rogue. It's ok, I'm at full health. Oh wait, I am stunned this entire fight and haven't been able to get one single DOT off. Oh look. I'm dead.
Give me a break. Blizz indirectly nerfed Locks by pretty much giving every other class a counter to them. As a Lock, I don't look at any other class and say "That's an easy HK" but that's pretty much the way Rogues, SP, Warriors, Hunters and now Feral Druids see me. I think I can kill Paladins but I don't know. I've never seen one without a Warrior or Rogue guarding them.
Stun, stun, silence, stun, stun, dead. How the hell can I burst damage anything when I am rendered incapacitated the entire fight???
That's my life -- in the BGs and in the Arena.....
That's right, Warlock's are underpowered- that must be why they have so little representation in high level Arena.
Oh no, wait. That's not true is it?
I don't know my friend. I can't seem to get my Warlock above 1600 thanks to Rogues and Warriors. And yes, I've practiced my Rs off. I've watched the videos, I've specced the right way, I even manually control my felhunter.
It doesn't matter. If there is a rogue or warrior on me, I am dead and there is NOTHING I can do about it.
Impossible to DOT or FEAR anythign when you are stun locked. Mace stuns are happening a ton while being intercepted by a warrior and stunned by a Paladin.
They do, they just can not use it.
Have you played a warlock? Try one in the BG or Arena some time. You'd be surprised how often you are stunned or silenced in the BGs. Oh, can't fear that guy. He's undead. Oh can't fear that guy, he's a warrior. Oh crap, silenced again. Oh look, it's a rogue. It's ok, I'm at full health. Oh wait, I am stunned this entire fight and haven't been able to get one single DOT off. Oh look. I'm dead.
Give me a break. Blizz indirectly nerfed Locks by pretty much giving every other class a counter to them. As a Lock, I don't look at any other class and say "That's an easy HK" but that's pretty much the way Rogues, SP, Warriors, Hunters and now Feral Druids see me. I think I can kill Paladins but I don't know. I've never seen one without a Warrior or Rogue guarding them.
Stun, stun, silence, stun, stun, dead. How the hell can I burst damage anything when I am rendered incapacitated the entire fight???
That's my life -- in the BGs and in the Arena.....
After admitting you have burst, your comment devolves into QQ.
Give me a break. Blizz indirectly nerfed Locks by pretty much giving every other class a counter to them.
Welcome to the club!
BTT, you can be lucky or not, I don't welcome randomness but I would guess it occurs mainly in 2vs2 and less often in 3vs3, which is where class imbalance is a much more annoying factor
Paladins are the worst with luck based talents. Fully specced holy/prot a paladin can pick up:
10% fear and disorient resist
15% Curse and disease resist
10% chance to have attacks against you cause half damage (not that people typically pick this one up, but still)
10% stun resist, 30% dispel resist
NONE of these actually make arena more fun for the Paladin or the people fighting the Paladin. They may as well replace all of these with a talent that says "Sometimes things the other team does to you will fail".
It seems to go with the general class design mantra of having basically no interactive abilities but having many passive defenses. It can work, sure, but it isn't very fun for the player, and it of course makes them imminently predictable.
Originally Posted by Rootbreaker
I think people blame their losses on luck far too often. I get as frustrated as anyone when dispel-resist talents prevent my escape artist from working or I get stun resists on both charge and intercept when trying to catch someone sprinting, mounted or in travel form, but the amount of losses that can be attributed to randomness alone is really quite small.
This thread may be deteriorating, but this line should be preserved for posterity. Just like when people say raiding is "luck-based," most of the time it is simply an excuse for poor play.
After admitting you have burst, your comment devolves into QQ.
Protip- the other guy is trying to kill you, too.
This thread sucks.
Yes. Our burst damage comes in the form of a 3 second spell.
Try casting a 3 second spell during PVP and see how that works out for ya.
Cheers.
This thread may be deteriorating, but this line should be preserved for posterity. Just like when people say raiding is "luck-based," most of the time it is simply an excuse for poor play.
I don't know anyone who said raiding was "luck." It's simply a checklist. You know what the boss is going to do, you know what you are assigned to do and you know when/how to do it. That's what makes RAIDING so boring and PVP so fun. There is some randomness to it and you never know what the other guy is going to do.
My 2 cents about randomness:
It is necessary in this game. If it weren't, bots would easily be able to completely dominate PvP. As someone else stated, people would have spells cycles down that would become very automonous. Randomness is what makes people need to think quickly and act differently even when faced with the same situation. It also is a way of indirectly helping balance classes and specs.
I made another thread about this, however the point goes well here too Line of Sight
I, as a mage, obviously don't like it. I think it adds a very unfair disadvantage to mages and hunters. The problem is not so much the ability to line of sight as much as I feel the way they have implemented it is poor. Since, without talents/enchants/abilities, we can all run at the same speed...expecting me to catch someone is an overlooked issue with arenas.
1) Not all spells are affected by it. I fail to see how this is balanced. Drains, arcane missles, curses, diseases, HoTs, etc...all do not have any issues with LoS (or very few). This creates a false sense of imbalance for druids and warlocks, because of their ability to do these things.
2) Favors melee, and "over time" spells. To catch a melee player, I am usually forced to get within melee distance of them in order to even get off an instant cast. Sure we can simply move away from the object and force the person out...but being based on mana does not give us the opportunity to endlessly do this.
3) The ability to waste caster time. Arenas require quick thinking. Getting to use a 2.5 second cast to do damage is sometimes very difficult. Spending 2 seconds casting a spell only to have your target take 1 step to the left behind some invisible wall and cancel your spell adds to a balance issue between mages vs "over time" classes.
solution
A simple change in mechanic, all spells follow the same LoS rules. If I begin to cast frostbolt when someone is in LoS, it will go off. The same should apply with healing.
or
(this is more of a joke, but you would then know how us mages and hunters feel)
If someone goes out of LoS from a warlock, the dots fall off. Or if a target goes out of LoS from his druid, the HoT drops off. (again, a joke, as in not serious)
at the very least I would like to see all spell treated equally, meaning if my spell can't go through a pillar, neither should ANY spell (including warlock drains)
Impossible to DOT or FEAR anythign when you are stun locked. Mace stuns are happening a ton while being intercepted by a warrior and stunned by a Paladin.
Have you played a warlock? Try one in the BG or Arena some time. You'd be surprised how often you are stunned or silenced in the BGs. Oh, can't fear that guy. He's undead. Oh can't fear that guy, he's a warrior. Oh crap, silenced again. Oh look, it's a rogue. It's ok, I'm at full health. Oh wait, I am stunned this entire fight and haven't been able to get one single DOT off. Oh look. I'm dead.
Give me a break. Blizz indirectly nerfed Locks by pretty much giving every other class a counter to them. As a Lock, I don't look at any other class and say "That's an easy HK" but that's pretty much the way Rogues, SP, Warriors, Hunters and now Feral Druids see me. I think I can kill Paladins but I don't know. I've never seen one without a Warrior or Rogue guarding them.
Stun, stun, silence, stun, stun, dead. How the hell can I burst damage anything when I am rendered incapacitated the entire fight???
That's my life -- in the BGs and in the Arena.....
You make it sound like you're playing alone, or have no gear. If either is true, then I'm not sure what your complaint is. No class can survive particularly long with little or no resilience against anyone with decent damage, regardless of what you're getting killed by. There's no way a soul link warlock with arena gear will die from a cheap shot to kidney shot stun lock, especially since you can trinket the kidney shot.
If you're in a battleground alone, and a rogue opens on you with other classes dpsing you too, then of course you're going to die, and no, you're probably not going to be able to much of anything. But again, that's not something unique to warlocks at all.
If you're in an arena getting attacked by a rogue, you have at least one partner. If that partner is a healer, they should be healing you, and you won't get stunlocked to death. Every class has some type of crowd control or slow effect - a way to, at least temporarily pull the rogue off you long enough for you to cast something substantial and get some breathing room and fear the rogue yourself or fear the healer while your partner finishes off the rogue.
You make it sound like warlocks are completely helpless, but that obviously isn't true as they do very well in competitive arenas.
11/29/07, 10:23 AM
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