Greetings everyone. I'm trying to run a 3v3 team with a rogue and hunter. I'm the "?" part of the team with the available options being Disc Priest or Resto Druid. All players are geared in merc/veng gear, but we haven't started the season yet.
I've never played with a hunter previously, so I'm not able to judge what it will bring to the table and how it benefits from this lineup. I've been doing quite good so far in 2v2 as Priest/Hunter, but I'd like to hear more from someone who has run this setup in 3s and which of the two healers would be better. I'm inclined to the priest more, but the druid brings a CC which this team lacks. What do you think will be our bane? Can we play against the popular PMR teams without much pain?
Are heavy CC teams going to destroy us (mage/warlock/druid) etc. The hunter is BM speced and rogue is AR/Prep. Comments on specs are welcome. Thanks.
In a 3v3 your hunter either needs 2 full CCers to support him or a dispell. Since the Rogue is not a full CCer, the Hunter will get reamed by at least 1 or more players on the opposing team because you can only reliably CC one of them with the druid. A Priest makes the most sense to me because he can dispel roots off the hunter and has a little better capability to deal with burst damage than a Druid. Also, I would recommend that the priest only goes far enough into Disc as he needs to get the necessary abilities with the rest in Holy - I know Disc is the flavor of the month, but most experienced priests I have discussed specs with say even with the buffs, Disc is not a spec you want to use unless you have another healer to cover for you.
If the hunter is BM his ability to drain is hindered (not having the 30% dispel resist talent and probably not using a scorpid pet) and he has no silencing shot, both of which are huge and generally staples of hunter arena tactics.
That being said, being BM he'll have 20 seconds of CC immunity, which should be more then enough time to make a 3v3 a 3v2. Hunters go very well with rogues because rogues keep the target in place and in los with stuns and snares, blind is a very effective form of CC and inbetween cyclone harassment of the healers and the MS effect of aimshot, you should have little problems destroying one person off the bat.
I don't see you running endurance very well with a BM hunter due to his weak viper stings though.
Originally Posted by Relwin
If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.
Hunters go very well with rogues because rogues keep the target in place and in los with stuns and snares, blind is a very effective form of CC and inbetween cyclone harassment of the healers
Don't forget however, that Blind shares DR with Cyclone now.
Last edited by Spork : 12/03/07 at 10:21 AM.
Reason: typing error
Okay, feedback for all who care, we tried this setup last night as hunter/rogue/druid and we ended up 11-3 I think (armory not updated yet). The matches we lost were poor coordination from our side. The setup that gave us trouble was anything with warrior/paladin.
The lack of CC is really noticeable, there is no room for errors. So far, it seems like a fun lineup to play, but I doubt we can go very high in rating once the brackets balances out. The main tactic is, burst one dps fast while healer is cycloned.
You WILL struggle against Warriors if you run Priest Rogue Hunter. Having no way, apart from Scatter, to control the Warrior, he will go for both the Rogue and the Priest, and he will destroy your healers mana pool extremely fast. You must use a Druid, or at least a Paladin for this very reason.
Personally, I don't like Hunter/Rogue combo in 3v3 and 5v5. It feels like their is no real synergetic team work between them, and once your Rogue runs out of CD's, its going to get really rough. Thats the difference between a Warrior and Rogue, Warriors don't get exponentially weaker as the game progresses.
Rogue synergises well with a Mage, Warlock, spriest, and pretty much every other DPS class apart from Warriors and Hunters. If you really want to run Rogue and Hunter, i'd recommend throwing in a Druid rather than a priest.
After deciding that our alt 3v3 was going to be druid/rogue/hunter, I sat down and thought about the composition and started to get excited. Overall, the team seems like a great counter-comp to some of the cloth-heavy CC teams out there.
Important Pros:
Provide great pressure against light-armor targets (read: cloth killers) without the disadvantage of being weak against snares, unlike double melee teams.
Has fantastic defenses against melee teams. (Cyclone, roots, frost trap, arcane shot dispell, scatter shot and abolish poison are fantastic ways to keep a warrior or rogue tied up for the length of the match.)
Synergy between the rogue and the hunter for snares.
Synergy between the hunter and the rogue for poison protection. This team can have up to 12 possible poisons on the target if necessary.
Limited mana burn potential.
Biggest Cons:
Hunter and druid lack the total caster anti-zerg capabilities of a PMR.
Lack of a definitive ranged counterspell.
Lack of a spammable offensive and defensive dispell.
I don't see you running endurance very well with a BM hunter due to his weak viper stings though.
I PvP as a 41/0/20 BM/Survival hunter. My gear is a little back as I took a few months off from game, but I'm still far more competitive than most other hunters. Between endurance training and survivalist, you get +15%(ish) hp. With spirit bond on top of that, you get 12% hp regeneration per minute (it adds up quickly). With S2 gear, you can easliy cap 15k hp (without socketing solid stars), meaning that heal is ticking for 300 every 10 seconds. Also, with an Arg. Compass, he can absorb another 1k hp.
You probably have surfooted (talent and enchant), and meta is debatable between snare resist/stun resist. But you already have 30% resistance to snares (which is huge). You're not mentioning races, but my opinion has always been that dwarves are the only way to go for hunters, so he can stoneform out of either some painful DoTs or a crip poison. After all that, he can pop Beastial Wrath to get out of anything once every 2 minutes (often twice per arena). Nasty melee man beating on you? Deterrence, you should always have an entrapment trap down, and imp WC, both proc a lot. Oh, and you're wearing mail with decent agi (dodge), and can pop monkey (improved?) for even more dodge.
In short, a good BM pvping hunter is not going to get bursted down in 3v3. He's also not going to get slowed that much - so I wouldn't be to worried about shields/dispels. What a hunter is going to be looking for is a healer that can stay alive, and provide a steady trickle of heals. This is a druid's specialty. In addition, a hunter is going to love it when his target gets rooted. And a druid can deal with removing viper on himself against another hunter - a priest cant.
As the PvPing hunter, I'd take the druid over the priest anyday.
You won't see many BM hunters over 2k rating in 3s. The serious problem with BM hunters is how easy it is to kill thier pet. Everytime we see a BM hunter we just Viper sting him (we'll win the Viper battle with improve stings + scorp pet) and tear up his pet.
Me and my two firends made a MMH/Rog/priest team in season two and sat around 1850 for most of the season. Then all three of our classes got buffed in the same patch. Week later we were sitting around 2100 and grabbed the duelist title. I switch my priest to deep Disc, with 5 in shadow for blackout. Your probably thinking "Blackout?!?!" It's really crazy in 3s, with rank 1 SWP/mind blast, its a ticking stun bomb that really turns the tides on druid/shaman teams (no dispell).
Back to Hunter/Rogue
We used the basic strategy almost every game, Rogue would jump on his easiest target to lock down (ele shamans, sp, UA locks, druids, mages) while the hunter would play guard duty. Every team we played either target me or the hunter. Kiting has never been so easy, frost traps, scatter, wing clip, entrapment, fear, blackout. Meanwhile the hunter is keeping Viper on the healer (or DPS) without missing a step. Once our primary target gets low we chain CC the healer (Fear/Blind/Silence Shot/Scatter) and make our kill. By then i'm oom and take off for a quick drink and then finish off the other two.
If a team decides to get smart and pressures our Rogue we go on the offensive, PS the rogue, CC the healer, pop the power infusion and go full DPS. I can provide a nice little burst (about 3.5k with SWD,MB,Smite and 500 spell dmg) along with an Aim shot and it doesn't last long. Hunters do stupid dmg with Expose Armor/Hemo debuffs.
I have to agree with Darceidus, druid may fit better with a huter/rogue due to spammable CC and good kiting capabilities.
Warrior alone shouldn't a problem, but coupled with a paladin it can be quite nasty. Like I said earlier, we've had good results the first week of arena, I'll see how thing progress as the brackets settles out after the season start rush.
I don't see why a druid would be necessary (against warriors) as long as you can kite around frost traps and dispel BoF.
Priest and hunter combined give a huge deterrence for healers to get into open LOS, forcing them to pick carefully openings to heal and possibly risking teammates health into gib-able range..
You WILL struggle against Warriors if you run Priest Rogue Hunter. Having no way, apart from Scatter, to control the Warrior, he will go for both the Rogue and the Priest, and he will destroy your healers mana pool extremely fast. You must use a Druid, or at least a Paladin for this very reason.
I run a MM Hunter / Rog / Disc Priest (was 33 / 28, just changed to 41 / 20 this week) and I can be sure Warrior with Pally won't be a big problem to this setup, frost trap + BoF dispel + scatter shot + (chatise if the priest is Dwarf/Draenei) are more than enough.
It's true that priests don't have Cyclone, but we have Fear / Mana Burn / A 30s cd stun / (MC as well); Viper Sting + Mana Burn = oomcaster in few sec;
You won't see many BM hunters over 2k rating in 3s. The serious problem with BM hunters is how easy it is to kill thier pet. Everytime we see a BM hunter we just Viper sting him (we'll win the Viper battle with improve stings + scorp pet) and tear up his pet.
I was one of the very few BM Hunters in the 2300 bracket in 3's,(pre-2.3 buffs) and I can tell you with certainty that there is a place for BM in Arena (especially after 2.3 Aimed shot + deadzone). And that place is definitely not in the draining/ccing department, as Marksman Hunters are.
I can't speak for other BM Arena Hunters, but I had success in 3 DPS, in which them focusing your pet would be a blessing.
I'm having a moderate amount of luck with a rogue(AR/Prep/Mace)/hunter(Marks)/shaman(resto) setup. It took us a while to hit our stride, because the lineup has some very obvious deficiencies. To put it simply, no defensive dispel and no hard CC hurt quite a bit. To compensate for this deficiency, we play in such a way that we try and apply a lot of pressure to whatever class we feel can most easily screw us. Rogue/Mage/Priest, for example, we can effectively keep the mage from sheeping, while, at the same time, doing huge amounts of damage to him, bloodlust after the first iceblock and the mage usually doesn't make it to a second one. It's gotten to the point where we almost hope to play RMP teams.
Double healer/warrior teams are our biggest weakness, though, and we have to severely outplay them and/or get a little lucky to win those matchups.
I normally PVE mostly and am looking for a good spec for 3v3 and 5v5 arena. I am currently 41/20 BM but want to respec for arena nights. I am looking for a good MM/Surv or Surv/MM spec, any help would be appreciated.
I Would like to add another interesting lineup which is quite similar but has a burst strategy:
BM-Hunter / Disc.Priest / MS-Warri
We only played some games around 1600, but it was pure Fun to burst down healers and soft targets.
The warrior slows down the target, BW+Trinkets + Rapid Fire -> Aimed Multi Arcane and a Fear @ the healer did the trick in most cases. Killing targets even with 11k in seconds is the key strategy.
The interesting thing is: Despite the lack of CC we did pretty well. Maybe in higher levels we will face more problems. Comments are very welcome.
I sort of randomly fell into this Hunter/Druid/Rogue combo and wanted to share experiences / get advice.
We are all raiders but do have decent PVP gear (300 res) and experience... we mostly just want to hit 1850 for the weapons.
In one night we got to 1607, not much but its a start, also seems like a lot of the better teams still haven't filter up into the brackets yet.
- Against other 2 dps / healer teams, we seem to do best when myself (hunter) and the rogue focus on one dps while the druid either CCs the other dps or the healer. this works especially well if the dps we CC is a warrior... between cyclone, roots, scatter/trap, he's pretty much locked down... CC can change to the healer if the target gets low.
- Usually we don't CC the healer but simply between viper sting and the large amount of mana he's expending to keep the target up healing through wound poison / MS Aimed shot... he either can't heal through our DPS or goes OOM very quickly while our druid maintains his mana.
- This seems to work well because we negate almost all their dps while burning the healers mana pool... warlocks are usually first on our kill list.
- Exceptions to this were teams with a priest because he can't be left alone to mana burn and goes down quickly with myself and the rogue.
- We largely ignored hunters, i would viper sting the hunter while he DPSed the rogue, he can't kill the rogue through druid heals if we have the other DPS locked down and goes OOM quickly with viper sting... several fights the Druid tossed me the innervate because he was fine on mana while i was out.
- Teams that absolutely gibbed us were enhance shammy / warrior / priest teams that rushed in, we simply got burst down and god lusted mana burns are rough.
- Also got completed rocked by a PMR
- Our druid only seemed to die if a warrior got on him... should his happen? I thought druids could kite a warrior very effectively?
Can anyone who has ran this combo offer some general advice against PMR or just other random info?
Our SL-AF lock/BM Hunter/Holy Pala team we tried for the first time last night was fun. Since it was our first time, it just went so so, specifically since neither of us were very well geared for PvP (no one over 250 res) but with some semi decent PvE gear.
Once we got into the rythm, the only thing that gave us trouble was the charging warrior/Enhc shammie/Pala combos that overran us. Our tactics worked well, DPS'ing the healer/locks quickly, while pets were harassing other soft targets or healers. As long as I stayed within LoS of our Pala, I could usually DPS most targets down quickly enough with Rapid fire.
Our team could use some improvement in many fields, but that will come with time and some more experience. It was more effective then I had thought at first and I look forward to seeing what it will be able to do with some better PvP gear and practice.
If we came across a Druid/Rogue/Hunter in our Druid/Lock/Rogue i feel we would win quite comfortably to be honest.
With an SL/SL lock your going to struggle to bring him down, especially when im interrupting your dps with stuns/blind/gouge etc. Your not going to bring me down any quicker and if you go for the druid all i have to do is slow the rogue down long enough for the druid to get away.
Would make most sense going for the lock but at the same time as soon as one of your dps players gets cc/slowed/stunned your ability to deal any significant damage to kill anyone goes down the drain. If you dont get the kill off quickly then your faced with fighting 3 players who have more CC and the ability to deal damage to mutliple targets. Throw in the fact that i myself have 20% more from heals and the lock is SL/SL our druids mana is going to go a further than it normally would. It would be only a matter of time before someone in the team died.
Doesnt stop the team setup being fun though! I do miss my old 5v5 with myself a shaman 2 warriors and a resto druid. Sure we got beat a ton but watching the 3 of us get some nice WF crits on the same targets was a golden moment indeed.
12/03/07, 8:36 AM
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