[Hunter] The PvP Thread - Page 15

Griffen · 09/22/08, 6:33 PM

I see from the screenshots of the new arena gladiator set that the set bonuses has changed: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...lad_hunter.jpg

-2 seconds on Tranq shot CD as glove bonus, and 4 set bonus has been changed to -2 seconds to traps cool down.

The new 4 set bonus is good, but the amount it takes off the cool down is ridiculous. I seriously hope they change this. The beast lord set had 4 seconds. And as far as I can see, with our balancing problems in arena, it would not be OP to reduce it with as much as 10 seconds.

I have not seen anyone mention this in the beta forums though. I notice Levidian has given up on giving feedback unfortunately, as well.

Grasshopper · 09/24/08, 4:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ingmar

I've seen a MM hunter / SHS combo in some movie ~2.2k if I'm not mistaken, but the dual DPS combo with BM would probably have too little CC. If not for scatter/trap + silencing they'd be losing a lot of games, and the 1 intimidation stun + temporary DPS isn't that great in comparison in my opinion.

I believe the team you're thinking of is Jacktrapper and Axull: Jacktrapper III 2300 rogue+hunter By Jacktrapper

Uzemaki · 09/24/08, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Griffen

I see from the screenshots of the new arena gladiator set that the set bonuses has changed: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...lad_hunter.jpg

-2 seconds on Tranq shot CD as glove bonus, and 4 set bonus has been changed to -2 seconds to traps cool down.

The new 4 set bonus is good, but the amount it takes off the cool down is ridiculous. I seriously hope they change this. The beast lord set had 4 seconds. And as far as I can see, with our balancing problems in arena, it would not be OP to reduce it with as much as 10 seconds.

I have not seen anyone mention this in the beta forums though. I notice Levidian has given up on giving feedback unfortunately, as well.

I also couldn't help but notice the complete absence of hit on the deadly glad stuff. I expect the other slots will have no hit as well (as it never has in the past). Are they changing the hit requirements for pvp targets, or will we be forced to gem/enchant for hit rating?

Griffen · 09/26/08, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Uzemaki

I also couldn't help but notice the complete absence of hit on the deadly glad stuff. I expect the other slots will have no hit as well (as it never has in the past). Are they changing the hit requirements for pvp targets, or will we be forced to gem/enchant for hit rating?

Probably gem enchant, but who knows. And now nelf racial reduces chances to hit with melee/ranged attack with 2% +hit will be even more important.

Ingmar · 09/29/08, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Griffen

Probably gem enchant, but who knows. And now nelf racial reduces chances to hit with melee/ranged attack with 2% +hit will be even more important.

Well it's not that surprising, S1/S2 armor had 0% +hit as well in TBC. At first I was thinking that compared to TBC it would be a bit easier to get to the hitcap anyway using +hit enchant which is currently not available (well, just spell +hit), however I Just checked a bit since I remembered some off-set +hit items:
Hateful Gladiator's Cloak of Victory
Hateful Gladiator's Pendant of Victory
Deadly Gladiator's Band of Victory (no Hateful version available at the moment?)
Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Greater Spell Strike

Interestingly enough the +hit on melee weapons completely disappeared (unlike S1/S2), which means you only got 34 (0,91%) + 34 (0,91%) + 20 (~0,6%) = 2,4% hit, far from the cap. If we add the ring (probably a bug that it's not in at the moment), probably another 34 rating (0,91%). Now add in [Arcanum of Ferocity] (I couldn't find a level 80 head enchant with +hit, please correct me if I missed it) and surefooted (no 80 version as well at this point) and we're around the hit cap.

I also saw Titanium Weapon Chain, for 28 hit-rating, but I'm not sure if you could use that type twice and it's likely that other enchants will be far superior in terms of damage output. Perhaps dual wielding and sacrificing 1 enchant for this chain will be acceptable.

So concluding: yes, we'll probably end up gemming or enchanting for hit a bit untill Season 7 (past deadly stuff) comes, just like S2->S3, or have to wear 1 or 2 hit-heavy PvE items.

negozin · 10/03/08, 2:56 PM

I´m used to play as MM since I created this char...
I know that BM/survival are ruling at Arenas...
So I´m looking for some general advices, about groups, fight skills and items.
1)Consider that MM we can silence/scatter/trap and burn fast any caster, I think I can keep this spec, in order to win bgs. But my trouble now is: how to handle with rogues and warriors? For those guys, once they comes near to me, it´s quite impossible to get rid of them.

2)I just reached lvl70, but I´ve been doing pvp since a long time. So I already bought 3 pieces of S2 and the crossbow. I talked with one hunter from my server and he wasn´t using all the set. he said he would buy the arena items instead of buying the S2. Because the arena are cheap, it seems with just 1500, you can get some items. So I don´t know if I should keep doing avs, and get the rest of S2, or should I start to do arenas.

3)Is there any place where I could check what types of enchanting and gems that i could put on my items, in order to maximize resilence, stam and agi?

now some noob questions, sorry for that:
4)should I buy gems on the AH? or are they too expensive, that I should just get them with honor?

5)that epic trinket medalion of the horde, can be used with insignia of the horde on the same arena?

6)may I change unequiped trnkets inside arena? I mean, can we use addons to cycle trinkets that is with us our bag and use them inside bg? I know that, anything with more than 30 min, can´t be used on arenas.

ps: I don´t think I will enjoy doing arenas, more than bg premades.
I will do arena, just because the best items are there.

Ingmar · 10/06/08, 5:02 AM

Originally Posted by negozin

I´m used to play as MM since I created this char...
I know that BM/survival are ruling at Arenas...
So I´m looking for some general advices, about groups, fight skills and items.
1)Consider that MM we can silence/scatter/trap and burn fast any caster, I think I can keep this spec, in order to win bgs. But my trouble now is: how to handle with rogues and warriors? For those guys, once they comes near to me, it´s quite impossible to get rid of them.

2)I just reached lvl70, but I´ve been doing pvp since a long time. So I already bought 3 pieces of S2 and the crossbow. I talked with one hunter from my server and he wasn´t using all the set. he said he would buy the arena items instead of buying the S2. Because the arena are cheap, it seems with just 1500, you can get some items. So I don´t know if I should keep doing avs, and get the rest of S2, or should I start to do arenas.

3)Is there any place where I could check what types of enchanting and gems that i could put on my items, in order to maximize resilence, stam and agi?

now some noob questions, sorry for that:
4)should I buy gems on the AH? or are they too expensive, that I should just get them with honor?

5)that epic trinket medalion of the horde, can be used with insignia of the horde on the same arena?

6)may I change unequiped trnkets inside arena? I mean, can we use addons to cycle trinkets that is with us our bag and use them inside bg? I know that, anything with more than 30 min, can´t be used on arenas.

ps: I don´t think I will enjoy doing arenas, more than bg premades.
I will do arena, just because the best items are there.

You're kind of asking basics here, but alright.

1) BM/surv hardly rules arena's, MM is pretty much standard for drain games. Only if you're playing double DPS BM might be viable. On how to handle rogues/warriors: if it's a rogue in 1v1 you're pretty much screwed if he's shadowstep, trinkets your trap and you're not a dwarf. However, in arena you'll always have a partner around to somewhat control the rogue and/or heal you up.

2) Just start doing arena's and gather points while farming more honor. Note that all S4 items except for the gloves require rating. S3 is pretty good though, I'd advise to get the helm, chest or legs for the extra +hit/armor ignore first.

3) Most hunters don't gem their pvp gear for resil/hp unless they're in a 5v5 or are wearing PvE gear as far as I know. Use the 15 resil on chest enchant and get boar's speed on your boots.

4) Yes, buy the gems from AH. Farming honor is a pain and you'll be doing lots of that even without gems from honor. Don't bother with epic gems if they're still expensive on your server.

5) It shares the cooldown, don't bother with getting both. Just get the epic version. If you want them both for the resilience, get Talisman of the Alliance in your second slot, although personally I'd prefer a DPS trinket (depends on your bracket though).

6) No, gearchanges are not allowed in arena, except for weapons.

negozin · 10/07/08, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ingmar

You're kind of asking basics here, but alright.

1) BM/surv hardly rules arena's, MM is pretty much standard for drain games. Only if you're playing double DPS BM might be viable. On how to handle rogues/warriors: if it's a rogue in 1v1 you're pretty much screwed if he's shadowstep, trinkets your trap and you're not a dwarf. However, in arena you'll always have a partner around to somewhat control the rogue and/or heal you up.

2) Just start doing arena's and gather points while farming more honor. Note that all S4 items except for the gloves require rating. S3 is pretty good though, I'd advise to get the helm, chest or legs for the extra +hit/armor ignore first.

3) Most hunters don't gem their pvp gear for resil/hp unless they're in a 5v5 or are wearing PvE gear as far as I know. Use the 15 resil on chest enchant and get boar's speed on your boots.

4) Yes, buy the gems from AH. Farming honor is a pain and you'll be doing lots of that even without gems from honor. Don't bother with epic gems if they're still expensive on your server.

5) It shares the cooldown, don't bother with getting both. Just get the epic version. If you want them both for the resilience, get Talisman of the Alliance in your second slot, although personally I'd prefer a DPS trinket (depends on your bracket though).

6) No, gearchanges are not allowed in arena, except for weapons.

cool,
I was already expecting most of those answers.
On the answer number 2:
You talked that I should do arena meanwhile I´m farming honor. You talked as it could be one secondary pvp goal or at least like something that I shouldn´t get worried. I was thinking to do a lot of skirmish before starting it. And always play with someone that I know.
On the way that you talked, it seems I could join with some PUG on arenas.
==
Right now, I´m on a new dilema.
Should I buy vindicator pieces(boots and wrist) in order to increase my health/resilence or should I just skip them, and try to do arenas in order to get the guardian´s stuff ?
And someone said that I shouldn´t get the S2 gloves and helmet.
Because S3 is too near for those 2 pieces.
I don´t know what type of player I will find on my first week.
What is the best jump on the first week of arena? considering that I win 10 from 10 games. (2x2, 3x3 or 5x5)
I mean, everybody starts with 1500. With 1 week, can I reach 1750?

Ingmar · 10/08/08, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by negozin

cool,
I was already expecting most of those answers.
On the answer number 2:
You talked that I should do arena meanwhile I´m farming honor. You talked as it could be one secondary pvp goal or at least like something that I shouldn´t get worried. I was thinking to do a lot of skirmish before starting it. And always play with someone that I know.
On the way that you talked, it seems I could join with some PUG on arenas.
==
Right now, I´m on a new dilema.
Should I buy vindicator pieces(boots and wrist) in order to increase my health/resilence or should I just skip them, and try to do arenas in order to get the guardian´s stuff ?
And someone said that I shouldn´t get the S2 gloves and helmet.
Because S3 is too near for those 2 pieces.
I don´t know what type of player I will find on my first week.
What is the best jump on the first week of arena? considering that I win 10 from 10 games. (2x2, 3x3 or 5x5)
I mean, everybody starts with 1500. With 1 week, can I reach 1750?

If you got a teammate: just play rated games with him and buy a new team if the rating dips too low. Get used to eachother, play a load of games, remake the team for proper rating. Skirmish is generally useless, you'll be fighting random setups and usually incredibly bad players (this is my experience at least). You can PUG skirmish by the way, but it's completely useless and BG's probably offer a better PvP learning curve.

Playing with someone you know is not that important (although preferable if (s)he has the right class), you can get to know someone while playing. Just make sure he has VT, you let him know what you're doing and vice-versa. Players that understand classes of their partner(s) (you) are generally your best teammates. However, if you can't find anyone decent to play with, just randomly do 10 games on tuesday evenings, there are always teams just looking for someone for some quick points (usually very bad teams,but it's 300 arena points for free).

On the vindicator pieces: hard to answer, depends on your gear. However, since you're completely new to arena's it's likely you won't be seeing high ratings for a while. 1575 for bracers may be doable, but 1700 for the boots (and I'm still assuming you're a new player) is out of the question the first few weeks. Reason for not getting S2 gloves would be that S4 doesn't have a rating requirement and it's cheap. I have no idea why you were told not to get the helm, as the S4 version requires 1700 rating and the legs (having the same stat upgrade) only require 1550 (which means you're more likely to be able to get those soon). As for S3 in those slots, the upgrade is the same, thus none of the 2 is really preferable over the other in terms of stats.

I think you're forgetting that in arena's you can lose rating. 1750 in the first week is probably not feasable for a new player like yourself. However, for theory's sake: winning 10/10 would yield 10 * ~15 (on average) points = 150, thus 1650 rating. However, you're not limited to 10 games, in theory you can get to 2500 in 1 day.

About 2v2/3v3/5v5: the more players, the more coordination required. Larger brackets yield more points for the same rating, but the difference isn't that large anymore. Note that larger brackets also mean bigger chances for undergeared persons to get blown up easily.

As general advice: read up some more about the basics of arena (because you're again asking basics here) and just get out there and try it.

MiniQ · 10/09/08, 12:46 PM

Now that it DOES affect TBW, what are people's thoughts on a TBW/Readi spec for arena at 80?

I'm thinking this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...10200000000000

Dansharpshot · 10/14/08, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by MiniQ

Now that it DOES affect TBW, what are people's thoughts on a TBW/Readi spec for arena at 80?

I'm thinking this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...10200000000000

That might be pretty nice, actually. I'm running BM/Enhance in 2v2 currently, and readiness would be a godsend.

I would probably spec something like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...10000000000000

Griffen · 10/16/08, 10:06 AM

I suppose for a pure dps build BM Readiness will be the best. (oh btw, I would definetly take careful aim over Combat Experience, to avoid pushback on Steady Shot).

Personally, especially with the new Dragonhawk aspect, I would like to try a build with TBW and Scatter Shot

Something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

These talents:
- Aspect Mastery
- Imp Aspect of the Monkey
- Longevity
- Survival Instincts
- Survival Tactics.

Combined with 3 Major glyphs at 80:
- Glyph of AotMonkey (gain 30% speed increase for 6 sec after dodge)
- Glyph of Bestial Wrath (reduce CD with 20 secs)
- Glyph of Disengage (reduce cd with 5 seconds).

Gives you:
- over 9% damage reduction (Aspect Mastery + Survival Tactics) w/dragonhawk aspect
- 14% Dodge w/dragonhawk aspect (+imp aotmonkey) (granted no change in monkey's dodge %)
- Around 64 (or 70? - not sure on how this is cacluated tbh) sec CD on TBW
- 21 second cd on disengage, which should be good with the announced fixes (not stuck in slopes, and snares does not affect distance jumped).
- 42 second CD on Intimidation, with Scatter Shot to boot.

Basically, I believe we'll be quite slippery with this set up. It does mean though that you don't have the burst of a BM readiness build, and even less than the MM build which has both chimera shot and readiness.

Edit: GC just confirmed Dragonhawk will give 18% Dodge. With Imp aotMonkey affecting Dragonhawk that's a wooping 24% Dodge vs melee - combine that with 9% extra damage reduction as well as 30% increased movement speed after each dodge... I hope it is as good as it sounds.

Ingmar · 10/17/08, 7:33 AM

Originally Posted by Griffen

I suppose for a pure dps build BM Readiness will be the best. (oh btw, I would definetly take careful aim over Combat Experience, to avoid pushback on Steady Shot).

Personally, especially with the new Dragonhawk aspect, I would like to try a build with TBW and Scatter Shot

Something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

These talents:
- Aspect Mastery
- Imp Aspect of the Monkey
- Longevity
- Survival Instincts
- Survival Tactics.

Combined with 3 Major glyphs at 80:
- Glyph of AotMonkey (gain 30% speed increase for 6 sec after dodge)
- Glyph of Bestial Wrath (reduce CD with 20 secs)
- Glyph of Disengage (reduce cd with 5 seconds).

Gives you:
- over 9% damage reduction (Aspect Mastery + Survival Tactics) w/dragonhawk aspect
- 14% Dodge w/dragonhawk aspect (+imp aotmonkey) (granted no change in monkey's dodge %)
- Around 64 (or 70? - not sure on how this is cacluated tbh) sec CD on TBW
- 21 second cd on disengage, which should be good with the announced fixes (not stuck in slopes, and snares does not affect distance jumped).
- 42 second CD on Intimidation, with Scatter Shot to boot.

Basically, I believe we'll be quite slippery with this set up. It does mean though that you don't have the burst of a BM readiness build, and even less than the MM build which has both chimera shot and readiness.

Edit: GC just confirmed Dragonhawk will give 18% Dodge. With Imp aotMonkey affecting Dragonhawk that's a wooping 24% Dodge vs melee - combine that with 9% extra damage reduction as well as 30% increased movement speed after each dodge... I hope it is as good as it sounds.

Sorry to slightly change the subject, but I find all this talk about monkey/dodge quite amusing in respect to Blizzard's statements about us being supposed to have low mitigation in melee... and then radically buffing AotH with dodge, while nerfing our baseline dodge % (which is basically what dragonhawk is).

I quote an earlier post on MMO-champ:

Low dodge % in WotLK
I seem to be having trouble coming up with a way to explain it that makes sense to you. We don't want you to have as much dodge as a rogue or a druid or a tank. If you have great offense and great defense then we're not sure how to balance you. We want you to run away when someone gets close, not stand and take the hits. Mages Blink or Ice Block or Frost Nova to get away from melee. We gave hunters Disengage to try to do the same thing. Note that we don't want it to be an automatic get of jail free card -- sometimes we want the melee to kill you. Maybe they still kill you too much, but it's hard for us to tell if that's a hunter failing or Retadins and Unholy DKs doing too much burst damage. Hunters without LOS issues seem to be able to kill stuff just fine, so it may be that is your Arena weakness and not melee getting up in your stuff

This does not seem to match the dragonhawk idea...

But now, they're now giving back our usual dodge % while using Dragonhawk, but are drastically reducing our dodge-scaling from agility. I wonder why, since in TBC even the best PvP gear didn't get us over ~18% dodge (I think my 4/5 S4 hunter is at sub-16% dodge with +10agi gems in red slots), and now they want to nerf our melee mitigation, yet give us a "free" aspect of the monkey.

Even more interesting is the question why to nerf our mitigation at times that we have little mana, running Viper to get some mana back. At that time we do 50/40% less damage, don't have much mana for defensive abilities (or we have to switch early) and have sub 3% melee mitigation from dodge. This just makes no sense, I'd say integrate it with Viper if they really want it to be a defensive aspect (because really, we can't kill anyone with 50% of our DPS anyway) and give us some mana ticks on dodges as well? Or, just revert the change and give us proper dodge-scaling and ditch dragonhawk, meaning our defenses are up to par (has anyone in TBC ever complained about hunter melee mitigation? Seriously?) in all situations.

Griffen · 10/17/08, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ingmar

Even more interesting is the question why to nerf our mitigation at times that we have little mana, running Viper to get some mana back. At that time we do 50/40% less damage, don't have much mana for defensive abilities (or we have to switch early) and have sub 3% melee mitigation from dodge. This just makes no sense, I'd say integrate it with Viper if they really want it to be a defensive aspect (because really, we can't kill anyone with 50% of our DPS anyway) and give us some mana ticks on dodges as well? Or, just revert the change and give us proper dodge-scaling and ditch dragonhawk, meaning our defenses are up to par (has anyone in TBC ever complained about hunter melee mitigation? Seriously?) in all situations.

GC answered that this did not break with their earlier statements. But I think that's bollocks tbh. As far as I know they cut our dodge from agi benefit with a set % (10%?) but did not change the scaling of Agi to dodge - so after we've reached that cap we'd scale like everyone else. And their argument about dodging being frustrating for melee when they finally get to us: also something they're definitely back pedaling on now.

I just simply have to assume that with the last days beta testing and especially the launch of the new patch they see that we have problems with nearly every melee class in PvP - with Rogue, Warrior, DK's and Retadins being what I see mentioned most often, but I assume also shamans and ferals are a problem.

So, they could do one of three things: make it easier for us to stay in range - give us more survivability in melee - or give us better dps in melee. We know the last option is out of the question or we'd have a whole new ball game. Easier to stay in range is hard to do I suppose with the counters that exist - so the easiest change for them is to give us more survivability in melee.

For me it looks good so far, but I'm not a pro so someone with higher arena experience than me will have to judge that.

Ingmar · 10/17/08, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Griffen

GC answered that this did not break with their earlier statements. But I think that's bollocks tbh. As far as I know they cut our dodge from agi benefit with a set % (10%?) but did not change the scaling of Agi to dodge - so after we've reached that cap we'd scale like everyone else. And their argument about dodging being frustrating for melee when they finally get to us: also something they're definitely back pedaling on now.

I just simply have to assume that with the last days beta testing and especially the launch of the new patch they see that we have problems with nearly every melee class in PvP - with Rogue, Warrior, DK's and Retadins being what I see mentioned most often, but I assume also shamans and ferals are a problem.

So, they could do one of three things: make it easier for us to stay in range - give us more survivability in melee - or give us better dps in melee. We know the last option is out of the question or we'd have a whole new ball game. Easier to stay in range is hard to do I suppose with the counters that exist - so the easiest change for them is to give us more survivability in melee.

For me it looks good so far, but I'm not a pro so someone with higher arena experience than me will have to judge that.

Well, it only makes sense that they're reverting some of it, since I've never heard a melee complaining about dodges. Our dodge % currently isn't very high anyway (except with deterrence, obviously). To me it makes no sense to nerf basic survivability while in "conservation-mode", being Viper. In Viper you want to survive and get mana back, not take even more hits than we're already taking.

I'd like the first option (more ways to stay in range) a lot better. A different 51-survival talent for example, or a glyph that removes snares if you use disengage/FD, something like that. Now it seems we get a chance to take more hits, however they're really not buffing our (untalented) survivability, they first nerfed it and are now compensating for it with a non-scalable (admittedly slightly higher dodge %) aspect, which is not always active when taking hits. So yes, after a the agi-threshold we might actually see some more dodge than we used to have in TBC, but as PvP armor usually increases other stats as the seasons progress (+hit/crit/ap/armor ignore and ~3 agi per item per season that doesn't introduce new stats), I don't think we'll see more than 2% extra dodge happening in WOTLK comming from the first epic set to the last (which is then around 5%, the dodge % of the average caster).

I'm hovering around 1700-1800 so I'm not that imba either, but currently I don't have much hope the Hunter PvP situation will really improve at level 70. The ranged MS effect makes us a bit more viable these days, but I'm thinking that Readiness + TBW spec at 80 might indeed be our only shot against all the CC/snares we have to handle.

I'm pretty excited about this viper change by the way:

Here is the actual Viper change we're going to implement: The per attack mana regeneration has been reduced by 50% but it now generates 4% of maximum mana every 3 sec. In addition, the per attack regeneration now also works on melee attacks.

Which should make things a lot more bearable (CC & Hide while regenning, then re-open fire when comfortable on mana).

Lofwyrr · 10/19/08, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Griffen

[..]
So, they could do one of three things: make it easier for us to stay in range - give us more survivability in melee - or give us better dps in melee. We know the last option is out of the question or we'd have a whole new ball game. Easier to stay in range is hard to do I suppose with the counters that exist - so the easiest change for them is to give us more survivability in melee.

For me it looks good so far, but I'm not a pro so someone with higher arena experience than me will have to judge that.

Most of the times a strafed away from a rogue or a warrior, while they tried to keep me in range i noticed (especially on warriors), that there is a point, where i can shoot and he can hit me.

I think it would solve our problems with them, if we would be able to shoot on the run, as they can autoswing on the run.
This would be a partly solution to the huge dps gap between raid-dps and arena-dps, i guess.
I wonder why we can not do so in the first place.

Watching the video of plops
( Rated_3v3_MM_build_9038.wmv - FileFront.com )
one can see him standing still for his auto shot to go off which mean, he has to face the melee parts of the oposing team again. Furthermore the ratio between special shot and auto shot is unlike warriors or rogues at 2:1 or 3:1 sometimes.

I think it would be one of those improvement, which does not affect PvE at all but could prove a huge asset in PvP.

Plops himself commented about the lack of defense abilities as well, like you Griffin, but i think without the need to stand still he had more chances to get further distance or LOS.

Griffen · 10/19/08, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Lofwyrr

I think it would be one of those improvement, which does not affect PvE at all but could prove a huge asset in PvP.

Plops himself commented about the lack of defense abilities as well, like you Griffin, but i think without the need to stand still he had more chances to get further distance or LOS.

I have been thinking in that direction as well. I believe the logic in vanilla wow for not having auto-shot firing on the run was that we were good at kiting, and it would make us über (might be a faulty assumption, have not seen it stated anywhere, but bear with me).

Now that melee's got all kinds of ways to break our kiting, and that kiting is no longer as good a tool as it was before, I do think completely unlinking auto shot and making it possible to fire on the run would be a way to balance us again.

As it is now, as I have stated before - steady shot and auto shot is severly reduced as damage sources in pvp - making auto shot possible to fire on the run would go a long way to fix us. And I do think it would not go too far either.

Either that or something else have to change. At the very least all speccs need another hard hitting instant shot. Atm it is only MM that looks decent dps wise for pvp, though a bit lacking in survivability.

I think they should test having auto shot firing on the run now that beta is still up. Though I think they fear the outcry of other classes if they do, and the outcry of hunters if they it does not make it into live.

Enova · 10/21/08, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Griffen

GC answered that this did not break with their earlier statements. But I think that's bollocks tbh. As far as I know they cut our dodge from agi benefit with a set % (10%?) but did not change the scaling of Agi to dodge - so after we've reached that cap we'd scale like everyone else. And their argument about dodging being frustrating for melee when they finally get to us: also something they're definitely back pedaling on now.

So, they could do one of three things: make it easier for us to stay in range - give us more survivability in melee - or give us better dps in melee. We know the last option is out of the question or we'd have a whole new ball game. Easier to stay in range is hard to do I suppose with the counters that exist - so the easiest change for them is to give us more survivability in melee.

For me it looks good so far, but I'm not a pro so someone with higher arena experience than me will have to judge that.

First of all, I don't see them as backpedaling on their statements. Dragonhawk will be good; heck, better than what we currently get from gear, BUT we're still going to be using viper for a great deal. We're still vulnerable to melee; even more so than before without the possibility to downrank (heck, I know I downranked Arcane for dispels and Multishot for totem killing). Viper now relies on us dealing damage, and it will be changed to allow melee damage to regenerate mana. Let's face it; we're either going to be meleeing, shooting while engaged in melee or close kiting for our mana back most of the time. Timing deterrance with AOTV might be a way around this, but it's still frustrating. However, it does fir in with the whole idea of being vulnerable while regenerating mana that Blizz seems to like.

Better dps in melee is an option, and removing the dodge component from Mongoose Bite is a start for that. Survivability in melee? Even with completely fucking up our dodge scaling, numbers seem to point to a slight increase. But then again, numbers can be such liars at times... A base line scatter shot and a stun removal would help. More benefit from stamina would be a thought, but I doubt they'd change the formula for a single class.
More tools for getting back in range? Well, glyph of AotM is a very elegant solution, unless they changed it. Again, scatter shot and stun removals would be viable solutions. So were Camouflage and Black arrow, but it seems those were taken off the table for various reasons. Obviously, if I'd get my pick, I'd rather have more tools to get out of range over the other two options, because quite fucking honestly, we're a ranged class; if we get melee abilities, like you said, we'd be playing a whole new ball game.

EDIT: An elegant way of implementing any solution would be as equip or set bonuses on the PVP sets.

Griffen · 10/22/08, 2:24 PM

Latest from GC: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Upcoming hunter changes

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Autoshot on the run scares us. Ranged classes who can do a lot of damage while moving are very hard to counter.

Not very surprising, but with all the anti-kite abilities today it would be interesting if they at least had tested it. It would make us a kiting class again.

mrnailed · 10/22/08, 8:35 PM

with the introduction of pet talents and pets being seperated into 3 different classes. is there a pet that would replace the scorpion, which most mm hunters use in arena? like each family has their own unique abilities. yet sum r for pve, soloing/tanking, and pvp. especially sinec we get 2 extra stable spots. is there a new "pvp pet"?

khel · 10/23/08, 9:05 AM

IMO, for most comps hunters should be using tenacity pets. RoS and Intervene are just really great abilities. It seems like playing the drain game isn't as strong anymore though so it might be worthwhile to switch to a crab, but I have been sticking with my scorpion for now.

Suspiria · 10/24/08, 1:16 AM

A doubt: we must use a 1:1 macro even now, in 3.0? Because if I simply cast Steady Shot, my first Auto fire next the Steady, but if I use a simply /cast Auto /cast Steady macro, I gain a "free" Auto before the Steady. In arena, my only doubt is about trapped target (steady is better than auto, when we can), but versus melee a fast auto is better.
Anyone use 1:1 macro in arena still now?

Neoaerony · 10/24/08, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by Suspiria

A doubt: we must use a 1:1 macro even now, in 3.0? Because if I simply cast Steady Shot, my first Auto fire next the Steady, but if I use a simply /cast Auto /cast Steady macro, I gain a "free" Auto before the Steady. In arena, my only doubt is about trapped target (steady is better than auto, when we can), but versus melee a fast auto is better.
Anyone use 1:1 macro in arena still now?

Autoshot is no longer linked to steady shot. The old macros are pretty much obsolete now.

Griffen · 10/25/08, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Neoaerony

Autoshot is no longer linked to steady shot. The old macros are pretty much obsolete now.

I think the poster you reply to are aware of that. If I understand the problem correctly, s/he finds that by using the macro her shot rotation will start with an auto-shot and then steady shot. Where as without the macro, by pressing steady shot s/he will get a steady shot then an auto shot.

As s/he says using the steady shot without the macro is good for traps to avoid breaking them early, where as otherwise the macro is good to get max dps off.

Of course you could just have auto-shot keybound and press it and then steady shot, but with our keybind extravaganza of abilities it might be hard to find place for such luxury.

Mearis · 10/27/08, 6:16 AM

How do people feel about the scaling that viper sting received? Are people worried that hunters basically end up as one-trick ponies again in the expansion? Right now with how good viper sting is, all non-druids are on a huge clock against hunters before they end up OOM.

I don't understand why they don't fix the other things wrong with hunters instead of making them rely on an incredibly powerful ability that leads to very boring gameplay.