ok so my question is about gear and which to use...i have 2 options
1. my pve gear, which is very good naxx geared items
2. pvp gear, 2 pieces of savage and 1 piece deadly gloves, along with hateful neckpiece, ring, and bracers
i notice my damage is obviously higher with pve on but pvp gives me resilience. my 2s team is hunter/dk so we are a burst team so i feel pve gear is better but 3s is dk/hunter/holy pally.
so basically im asking do i want more damage/die easier or less damage/survive longer? keep in mind with my pp i have 300 res, with pve i have 20 (trinket).
Truly surpised at the lack of comment/support for the incoming Explosive Buff coupled with LnL procs. Blizz has handed PvPers a shot and mechanic on a plate IF it goes live. The combo should put Hunters back on the PvP map after too many seasons out in the wilderness.
Here is a few comments from using SV from the PTR. Hopefully will generate a bit of support for the Buffs to make it through to live without being scaled back ...
Originally Posted by Harmann
Got on the PTR, 3900-4000 DPS self sustained against target dummies as SV spec on a character I copied several weeks ago.
This is without a single buff.
There is not a chance in hell that Explosive Shot in its current iteration is going live.
Also, I'm able to kill people before they can react with LnL setup bursts. I've had Pallies who can't even hit Bubble fast enough before they realize what's happened. One second you're beating on me, the next you're in a Frost Trap while I'm flying backwards and quite literally 2-3 shotting you with chain Explosive Shots hitting for an average of 3.1k per tick. Roughly 18,600 damage delivered in the first 4 seconds with another 9,300 on its way... and if you really want to surprise people, let your LnL tick away for a couple seconds while you DPS them with a couple Autos + Aimed -- get them down to 70% HP before you 'outplay' them. The broken up damage is so fast and so sneaky that often times people don't even realize it.
Truly surpised at the lack of comment/support for the incoming Explosive Buff coupled with LnL procs. Blizz has handed PvPers a shot and mechanic on a plate IF it goes live. The combo should put Hunters back on the PvP map after too many seasons out in the wilderness.
Here is a few comments from using SV from the PTR. Hopefully will generate a bit of support for the Buffs to make it through to live without being scaled back ...
Personally can't wait
I have always wanted to go try out SV once BM/Readiness loses it's touch. Have anyone else got some testing done regarding Explosive shot. Also - Any suggestions for Gear Req. and possible specs? A friend of mine, who recently just started playing DK has always been a SV hunter. He says the gear req. are immense. Does anyone have a good guideline, for when you are "able" to benefit from a SV spec? I reckon it'll be something like 900agi and as much stamina as possible?
I don't know if there really is gear requirement for SV any more.
I think in TBC, when EW was raid wide buff, you needed some threshold agility to provide enough raid buff.
Now, espeically in pvp, LnL and ES combo burst will be the key, which basically requires as much AP as possible to up the burst. I think when a skill scales at 18% of AP per tick, just some decent amount of AP will suffice to make ES hit really hard, since SV already has many crit talents for ES.
I've been playing around with a hybrid 0/40/31 build for arenas and BG PvP and so far found it quite pleasing to use. The major drawback I have is with regards to mana conservation, but no surprise there I guess. The build itself allows for some very heavy burst damage combined with fairly good survivability.
For my pet choices I tend to find players in arena assume I'm a BM so focus heavily on my pet at first so have opted for a crocolisk rather than the standard scorpid with maximised survivability talents. This seems to work quite well, especially against melee opponents who take considerable damage from the 'Snapback' pet skill while trying to nuke it down.
Anyway, I'm always interested to find out who else uses non-standard type builds and if there are any other effective hybrid builds that have been put to use.
Im 0/53/18 skilled, also thinking mm is the right way through arena. Got some nice survivability plus LnL with Arcane.
Bursts really good at some situations, place trap, let trigger, start firing a Steady Shot (and Autoshot), then Silencing Shot, Chimaera Shot, Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Arcane Shot and Kill Shot asap for sure.
Chose right target and right moment(be sure bubble and so on is already on cd), let your teammate cc the other opponent and set down the burst.
Even in 5v5 i think this works out well if you got a stun/burst team, rogue and retri for example.
Silence is just evil in a burst.
Since right now most people tend to think that every hunter is a BM, and they also check for buffs to make sure. Spirit bond and Kindred spirits are what they are searching for, so you can get a step forward if you like BM a lot and spec 43/21/7 (up to 2 points in longevity, readiness in MM and Survival Insticts on SV) and surprise people that don't expect a big red kitty coming up.
You lose Kindred Spirits and Spirit Bond, but the surprise factor worths every penny.
After patch, the fuss will be on MM in my opinion due to its high burst and silence capabilities. Especially coupled with Readiness it can help a lot in a 3v3 or 5v5 situation. Double Silence and Scatter is taking a healer out of the game, especially on those crucial burst seconds.
I have also been looking at some unusual Hybrid builds. A few things have got me thinking.
Arena so far seems to be all about burst. (Not that I am an expert. I know a lot about arena but I am old and slow and lose a lot.)
With everyone talking so much about LnL I noticed that it procs ES but also Arcane...
Ferocious inspiration now buffs Arcane
I love the freedom to act that TBW gives.
So I made a spec that gets TBW, FI for the arcane buff, and Intimidation to hold them still.
Gets LnL and includes Scatter Shot to hold them in place in case I need to actively trap them.
Then pushes the MM tree as far as possible getting 2 (not three) points into Imp Arcane Shot.
The idea being that I can rage and then use the 2 stuns and a Scatter to open and do some DPS as I trap them.
Then when I have LnL up follow up with three boosted Arcane shots and, in theory, a Kill shot for the kill.
Too Crazy? How good a pure burst arena build is this??
I suppose many hunters have already tried buffed Surv in PvP. Please, share your experience! It looks strange that there are no updates to this thread after 3.0.8 went live..
My hunter is still on the way to 80, so I cannot say anything useful. Just can't wait to hear whether hunter became much more capable of PvP or not.
I suppose many hunters have already tried buffed Surv in PvP. Please, share your experience! It looks strange that there are no updates to this thread after 3.0.8 went live..
My hunter is still on the way to 80, so I cannot say anything useful. Just can't wait to hear whether hunter became much more capable of PvP or not.
Well, pre 3.0.8 I was BM and I was able to break rogue stuns very easily. Post-nerf BM could deal with the stuns (still) but not as well as before (Readiness nerf). As Survival, it feels completely different. Rogues can stun-lock me much more easily now. Ironically Deterrence cannot be used while stunned.
I'm sure Hunters are still capable in 3's/5's but in 2's we definitely lost a little something. I'd say we're still viable, but it'll take a little shimmy.
I had not stepped foot into arena this season until last night. I had heard all the concerns about burst and after playing enough BG’s to get PvP gear (617 res) and some Vault drops I thought I might not get instant gibbed. We ran the following 5's composition.
DK
RET
Mage(a)
Hunter(sv)
Disc Priest
After playing 20 games we noticed two similar patterns. The first was they would go for our priest right away and force a BoP before switching onto me and training me. The second was to cc the priest and train me. 90% of the time I was the first person on our side to go down. It got to the point I would pop deterance, Intervien (crab pet), Roar of Sacrifice, FD and just try to kite or LoS long enough for our team to get on of the other teams healers or DPS down.
On the rare occasion that I was not trained or we could grab control my DMG was heads and tails above everyone else. I usually would do over 100k dmg in a match if allowed to focus on DPSing a target. SV has more control then any other Hunter spec but unless we can find a way to avoid being Killed on Site (KoS) it is of little use.
The combo we saw a lot and beat us every time was DK, War(a), Ret, Sham, Druid(f)
as a foot note almost every team had a DK and a RET on it.
I have been trying some arenas and BGs as a Surv Hunter, and I will say once you get used to it, plate wearers become easy targets. I find I am melting through DKs a lot easier now. Unfortunately, now Rogues are a lot more troublesome.
What I Have found works for me right now is that if I go in and hit them with a frost trap, and get my LNL proc, I can hit them with Explosive, then Aimed, then 2 explosives. Once this burst cycle is done, if they are not dead and in my face, I will pop deterrence and then disengage out (this solves them trying to get behind me as well). By the time Deterrence has worn off, my Explosive shot is off CD, followed right after by Aimed shot again.
This is mainly in BGs though, and I won't get to try it in Arenas until later this week.
Still the same thing though, too many GCDs to manage to feel like I can respond quickly.
I agree with your thought about BG’s. With ES not being mitigated by armour it helps remove my old fear of plate wearer’s. I find that any class that I can get the drop on usually does not last very long. Have you thought about playing more aggressive then defensive? I will start with a ES then an Aimed but I will often try to follow with a scatter if I am in range to allow ES to cooldown. I will then go ES to wyvern followed by ES as soon as it is off cool down.
I tend to play right on the front lines in BG’s so I usually need deterance, traps and disengage to handle the second or third person to come. If you are going up against a healer and a DPS hit up the healer with wyvern if you think you can burst the DPS down otherwise wyvern the DPS and drop the healer.
Dealing with Arena though I am almost tempted to try and become a giant sponge by stacking STA and resilience and not worrying about Agi and Cri so much as the trains (you will find out latter this week) are nasty.
Last edited by tarus : 01/27/09 at 10:44 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Bg's are not really a good place to guage your abilities. DK's are pretty much the single hardest counter to both SV and MM hunters due to anti-magic shield and anti-magic zone completely neutering your damage output. A good unholy DK can cycle his CD's and toss in pet stuns along with well timed death grips and chains of ice to make you completely worthless for the vast majority of the fight.
Originally Posted by Relwin
If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.
I agree 100% about BG’s not being the true gauge of you entire skill set however I would argues 1v1 and 2v2 do not either. The problem with arena’s right now is that the burst damage completely negates any form of control a hunter should be able to use.
For example in the ogrimar arena (5v5) I need to do everything I can to survive more then 10s to try and give my team a chance of winning. Most teams will focus a hunter first because they know that hunters can control a fight if left alone at ranged. With most 5's having a DK I am usually gripped right onto their platform which will require a BoP and deterance and Disengage to get me out.
As for DK’s, a well played one is indeed very difficult to handle. I find that with then I will not use disengage until after they use deathgrip and hopefully chains of ice. When gripped pop deterance and then disengage and begin kiting while using scatter and wyvern to prevent DK’s from closing distance. Trap should be used if they get you in melee again. In my opinion use your shortest cool downs first so that you can hopefully get a second scatter or disengage during the fight.
A good comp that I have run with success is Hunter/Warlock/Holy Pala
Basically it allows for a lot of CC and a lot of kiting. Rogues are easy prey, we can always CC the healer for a very long time with fear/scattershot/wyvern sting. We can kite all melee around endlessly. Frost traps on a 24 second CD, LnL procs, TnT, I feel like a mage with a pet. I can CC, I can do insane burst damage.
I find that post 3.0.8 hunters are a VERY good in 3v3. Our pally doesn't even have a trinket. I run strictly with PvE gear, and that brings me to about 20k health with kings. BoF/BoP allows us to survive/kite for a very long time, and the new deterrence is SO good.
You can force counterattack procs with it, you can basically stop any amount of burst on you for a good while, and you can also eat up dismantle with it, if you get lucky.
I agree and do think that 3's is the format that we have the best chance at success. I think we will see a decline in 2's as the 50/21/0 is no longer viable. 2's will become a control burst set up again and will require more skill to excel at.
I think 5's is still gonna be a burst vs burst for 90% of the matches; however 3's may revert to control and opportunity again as everything lvl's out and all the DK, RET combo's either rise or loose interest.
----
To switch topics I was wondering what people are doing to handle prot warriors. I fair well against Arms or Fury but struggle against Port warriors and Paly's. What are people doing to handle these two?
You can force counterattack procs with it, you can basically stop any amount of burst on you for a good while, and you can also eat up dismantle with it, if you get lucky.
Deterrence require melee weapon to use, so you can't use it if you have dismantle
Last edited by DarkSTorM2000 : 02/09/09 at 11:10 AM.
It's not. BM/DK might be able to kill some people right now but it's going to be worse and worse as sta/resil goes up.
From personal experience, DK/Hunter was a good pair for twos when Wrath came out. I tried it now, and especially with BM readiness nerf, it is not as great. The resilience does throw this comp's possible burst down. Especially against a pally that can bop or bubble, which a majority of teams at the moment include one pally, it is hard to survive or rely on tranquilizing shot to take off the Bop to effectively dps that target.
This may seem like a weird question (or it may have been discussed already), but does it make sense to stack spell penetration for explosive shot?
There is a surv hunter in my battlegroup (shadowburn) whose 2v2 is 2nd place with a ~2450 rating, and he's stacking spell pen.
For 2on2 it's definately not worth it since it's compleately useless against most of the teams. However, for 5on5 there is obviously a much higher chance of one of the opponents being a druid, so having 75 for MotW ignore might be worth it.
Every high rated arena hunter is stacking 75 spell pen at least (35 cloak, 2x 20 gems).
Paladins with fire resist aura, DK resistances, pet resistances, MOTW etc.
The standard resistances for most is 130, but with 75 spell pen the damage loss becomes insignificant compared to have 0 spell pen with them having 130 resistances.
I agree and do think that 3's is the format that we have the best chance at success. I think we will see a decline in 2's as the 50/21/0 is no longer viable. 2's will become a control burst set up again and will require more skill to excel at.
I think 5's is still gonna be a burst vs burst for 90% of the matches; however 3's may revert to control and opportunity again as everything lvl's out and all the DK, RET combo's either rise or loose interest.
----
To switch topics I was wondering what people are doing to handle prot warriors. I fair well against Arms or Fury but struggle against Port warriors and Paly's. What are people doing to handle these two?
Why would we see a decline? Survival has become the ultimate control spec. 22 second traps, RNG stun, several CC's etc.
Prot Warriors are a joke, they put out pathetic DPS to their fury counterparts, they are Rogue's with poor DPS.
Hunter/Shaman or Hunter/Paladin in 2v2 should easily be able to force a bubble on a Paladin, then play defensive until bubble is gone and go for a burst on the Pally.
I believe Hunter/Paladin to be the most powerful 2v2 composition in the game, their primary weakness being Warlocks and with Locks on a massive decline Hunter Arena representation is jumping through the roof. Zna and I laugh everytime we see a Paladin/DK team, it's a guranteed win for our setup, it reminds us of how we played Hunter/Druid versus Warrior/Druid.
A typical game goes as follows, DK charges in, I drop frost trap, DK procs Frost Trap and LnL, ZNA (Absolution) and I charge at their Paladin, I start off with Explosive Shot, Aimed Shot, Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Explosive Shot, ZNA (Absolution) unloads his burst, Aimed Shot and Explosive Shot are back up around the same time and the Paladin is usually forced to bubble at this point.
Then we turtle the DK until bubble is gone and rinse and repeat.
12/25/08, 7:22 PM
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