Actually, what stops 3 dps in 3s is paradoxically that damage is so high that none of the people on your team will live long enough to put your increased damage to good use. Before the AMZ/arcane nerfs, DK/arcane mage/ret paladin was an amazing comp but it was based around all classes having an invulnerability to use if FF'd.
Quick question (copied from the European forums that I have posted it also):
Me and some friends have started a new experiment on 3v3 (Hunter,Pally,Mage) and we are facing constantly RMPs with no stop. Last week's games were filled with RMPs (i think 90% of the encounters).
The whole point on getting the upper hand on RMPs in our setup is finding the rogue before he opens on someone. Usually track hidden+pet cover the role, but sometime it is not enough. Being an Engineer, I thought that I could give the epic head a try. I gemmed and enchanted it for PvP replacing Titan-Forged Helm from WG. So the questions are the following:
1) Does anyone know if the "slight" stealth detection of this head stacks with Track Hidden?
2) I use Gloves of Calculated Risk as the only full PvE gear on my toon, because they are simply too good. The result is that with two pieces of PvE, i am down to 711 Resilience (full PvP i can go up to 797). Do you think that this is enough?
For reference the WG Helm's stats are:
1019 Armor
+60 Agility
+103 Stamina
+29 Intellect
Meta Socket : +42 AP and Stun Duration reduced by 10%
Red Socket: 16 Agi
Socket Bonus: +8 Critical Strike Rating
Equip: Improves hit rating by 44 (1.34% @ L80).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 59 (0.72% @ L80).
Equip: Increases attack power by 88.
Where the Epic Engi head:
1019 Armor
+74 Agility
+90 Stamina
+42 Intellect
Meta Socket: +42 AP, Stun Duration reduced by 10%
Yellow Socket: +20 Resilience Rating
Socket Bonus: +8 Critical Strike Rating
Requires Engineering (400)
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 44 (1.72% @ L72).
Equip: Increases attack power by 120.
Equip: Shows the location of all nearby gas clouds on the minimap.
Equip: Slightly increases your stealth detection.
Use: Allows you to look far into the distance.
Both are enchanted with WG head enchant (+50AP and 20 Resi Rating).
Feel free to browse my armory for more details also. Thanks.
Certainly, however the timing is crucial. I wouldn't like to waste Flare on randomly checking for a rogue, since I can use it as a means to cancel his vanish. So I am (at least for a given amount of time) searching with Track Hidden+Googles+Pet Aggressive (Crab Charge).
Usually when you break their stealth, they will vanish and then a flare seals the deal. Volley is also useful for getting in combat more often than not, in certain stages, when people sit behind a pillar. Target the template behind the pillar and shot away. You get in combat, healer throws a heal on you, he is in combat also. That's a good way to avoid Saps.
Still volley is a good random way of finding a rogue also
I've not done much Arena since I started playing WoW but now dual-spec is out in 3.1 I'm going to give it a go. I've been practising on Guild mates with duel (both in PvE gear) and while I have some success some of the time I can never beat the Paladin - DKs are much easier, any tips on how to beat a Paladin?
You can not group all paly's into the same group. It used to be that you would just drain a ret or prot and laugh to the bank but our Drain is not that effective anymore. The keys are the paly bubble and the lack of being able to kite them. I am still learning with the current changes but so far i try to use LoS and max range to kite.
Do not be affraid to force them to BoF early while you still have disengage. Also you can Tranq wings to really piss of rets.
Is points in Go for the throat worth it? I'm assuming I'll just have my pet set to use his special moves instead of the focus dump the entire time (damage is really low for a MM) so I'm thinking probably not.
Concussive Barrage: This is been changed in 3.1 and having 100% chance to daze with Chimera/Multishot (2 staples of the MM hunter) it seems really good? How can I tell if there are dimihshing returns?
Piercing Shots: Real nice in PvE but from my understanding of resilience, crits are a lot less likely in PvP so maybe a talent which procs from crits isn't a good idea?
Mana regen (RF & RR or Efficienct) - Is mana effiency a consideration for arena? In my previous experiences (I'm going 2v2) I'm generally dead before my mana gets to 50%!
For gear, obviously resilience is better but is the extra survivability worth it at the cost of DMG? for example, I have mainly 200/213 level gear and enough tokens to buy the full set of Savage Gladiator level 200 gear, which would be better?
And a little OT possible, I hear SV hunters had some exploit with frost traps which is now fixed? What was that? From the tool tip of Lock and Load, frost traps still appear to have a 100% chance of procing it.
And a little OT possible, I hear SV hunters had some exploit with frost traps which is now fixed? What was that? From the tool tip of Lock and Load, frost traps still appear to have a 100% chance of procing it.
The bug (or exploit, however you want to refer to it) was that Lock and Load procs triggered from a Frost Trap wouldn't trigger the hidden internal cooldown on Lock and Load. So you could get more Lock and Load procs than intended by trapping on cooldown (thus getting one every 30 seconds) and keeping Serpent Sting up (thus getting the normal, intended procs). Now Serpent Sting no longer procs it, Black Arrow does. And since Black Arrow shares a cooldown with traps, you're not going to get more than the intended number of procs.
I haven't tested whether there's still an internal cooldown. It should be possible to get chain procs by dropping a trap and having a target trigger it after the cooldown is up, thus being able to Black Arrow immediately before or after the trap-triggered Lock and Load. The point is mostly academic. It's useless for PvE since it isn't generating an extra proc, it's just delaying the first proc until the second one is ready. And I imagine it's similarly useless in PvP as you'd rather see your trap cooldowns put to good use than having a trap sitting around for 24-30 seconds so that you can chain Lock and Load procs.
I tried this in arena last night and after 5 matches I had only won 1. I found the spec pretty good but emphasised CC & stings vs. survivability. I'm not sure which is more important at the moment.
As far as gear went, my first 2 matches were in Naxx PvE gear while the last 3 were in blue Savage Gladiator gear and the savage gladiator gear felt better with it's limited resilience. I just need a few more (45) heroic tokens to get the final 2 pieces of the set and I can also get a 2 second reduction on trap cooldowns. I knew I shouldn't have bought so many heirloom items!
my second spec on WOW armory The World of Warcraft Armory
0/51/20 with lock and load, I am really trying to figure out a better warrior / druid strat because they seem to be the only hard group out of the 5 matches we played I want to say 3 were that comp ..... Season 2 all over again :-(
I honestly do not think 5/x/x is worth specing into. I find that I rarely get the chance to sit still to get auto's off enough to proc and justify the 5 points. It is the same reason that I did not take sniper training. I want to put emphasis on being mobile and durable. I went 5-5 in our first 10 games playing with a resto sham. 3 of those losses came to mage rogue which made me want to beat my head against a wall.
Things I have noted so far:
1) More resilience reduces the speed we can burst something down, you NEED to set up a kill now and not expect LnL and ES to do it for you.
2) Viper Sting, while not draining a healer to the point of making them worried is still worth applying because the mana return on 20,000 mana is around 1500-2000 over 8 seconds and you still get max DPS
3) Rogues and dismantle still rape us. Still trying to figure out how to beat mage rogue
4) DK's are not scarey anymore. Put pressure on them and then set up a hard switch on the healer.
I am going to do 3's and 5's on the weekend and run some more twos
I honestly do not think 5/x/x is worth specing into. I find that I rarely get the chance to sit still to get auto's off enough to proc and justify the 5 points. It is the same reason that I did not take sniper training. I want to put emphasis on being mobile and durable. I went 5-5 in our first 10 games playing with a resto sham. 3 of those losses came to mage rogue which made me want to beat my head against a wall.
Things I have noted so far:
1) More resilience reduces the speed we can burst something down, you NEED to set up a kill now and not expect LnL and ES to do it for you.
2) Viper Sting, while not draining a healer to the point of making them worried is still worth applying because the mana return on 20,000 mana is around 1500-2000 over 8 seconds and you still get max DPS
3) Rogues and dismantle still rape us. Still trying to figure out how to beat mage rogue
4) DK's are not scarey anymore. Put pressure on them and then set up a hard switch on the healer.
I found that rogues pose less threat than I anticipated this season. Last season they were a non-issue and so far this season I haven't lost to one. Granted, I've only played 23 games so far this season. I'm playing with a resto druid and we went 14-9 last night. Probably half the losses were due to getting-used-to-new-comp stuff. Of the remainder, 2 were Holy Pal/Ret Pal.
We faced Mage/Rogue, DK/Rogue, Priest/Rogue and Rogue/Rogue that I can recall. We won them all. The dual rogue team died the fastest. The DK/Rogue team posed the greatest problem, though I think thats because we were in the Dalaran Sewers and thats a much better arena for DK/Rogue against Druid/Hunter.
The comp this season that is causing me to say "what the hell do we do here?" is Holy Pal/Ret Pal. Maybe after the replenishment nerf this will have improved but this comp made up half of our "legitimate" losses. There was basically nothing we could do. I finally ran out of mana or got out of position to my healer and finally died. The fights felt like they could have gone on forever, but we never really made any progress on them.
I also found viper sting was quite effective against Priests. It doesn't pay off right away, but that drain is powerful enough late in the fight (when they are lower anyway) to keep them super low if you keep them in combat with the pet. It's only the last 10% of mana that matters anyway right?
I honestly do not think 5/x/x is worth specing into. I find that I rarely get the chance to sit still to get auto's off enough to proc and justify the 5 points.
It was 5pts on Endurance Training. And you are complitely right Sniper Training is useless as IAotH. I dont think Expose Weakness is so usefull as well. Maybe if you get maxed it. So far i like this build. I got better survivalbility then if im with pve 0/15/56 build. As pet for pvp im useing Hyena, found it for prety usefull even vs mages. In near future i will move those 5pts from bm to another places, but so far im lacking HP. Other way as sv with more hp ur getting more AP, so maybe its worth those 5pts...
Druid Hunter would fare a lot better vs Rogue Mage then me with Hunter Sham. Instant hots and heals can get around kicks and silence. We found that I would often get sapped and the mage would start on my healer. I would then get put into a stun to be followed with blind. The issue was if I pop trinket on the Cheap Shot then I get blinded. If I wait until the blind then they have had 4 seconds on my Sham without me doing anything.
The final kick to the nuts is the Dismantle after the blind/stun combo's.
The other issue was if they poly'd my healer while the rogue opens on me. If my healer trinkets poly he was hit with blind while they set up that shatter combo only to get blasted while dismantled so I can not deterrence.
Druid Hunter would fare a lot better vs Rogue Mage then me with Hunter Sham. Instant hots and heals can get around kicks and silence. We found that I would often get sapped and the mage would start on my healer. I would then get put into a stun to be followed with blind. The issue was if I pop trinket on the Cheap Shot then I get blinded. If I wait until the blind then they have had 4 seconds on my Sham without me doing anything.
The final kick to the nuts is the Dismantle after the blind/stun combo's.
The other issue was if they poly'd my healer while the rogue opens on me. If my healer trinkets poly he was hit with blind while they set up that shatter combo only to get blasted while dismantled so I can not deterrence.
Mage Rogue hurts if you don't have a druid.
Overall, it does seem that a druid is an excellent healer partner for a hunter. We played some more and are now 22-15 (wish we had more time). Priest/Rogue was the only team we lost to in our last session (5-1). Very tough comp for sure, but we think its winnable in a different scenario. For instance, in Nagrand instead of Dalaran.
The replenishment nerf definitely made a huge difference with Holy/Ret teams. They take some time but are nearly always winnable. Same with Holy/DK.
The nerf that I've found hurts the worst is the Frost Trap trigger nerf. It was bad enough when someone triggered your trap but was immune. You still got the benefit of the LnL proc and the trap being there for use by your partner or yourself after the immunity wears off. But now, the trap just disappears if triggered by an immune player. Now I lose the LnL proc, the trap effect AND I have to wait 30s for another trap opportunity. Its a real pain. Combine this with the fact that it seems that a lot more classes (Warrior, pally, rogue, etc) have immunity from traps and it makes for an interesting challenge.
So far though, this season has been a blast compared with last season. I played 605 games last season though it was with a bit of a gimmick comp (dual hunter). But at least now the games aren't over in 30 seconds. Last season we either blew them to hell or got killed very quickly.
This season is much more about strategy and discipline - at least for a hunter.
This is my 1st time in an arena.. Needing advice... Pets,Do u have a favorite for use in arenas.. I currently have a ravager.. Also on specing.... Is it better to be surv/mm or surv/bm ? point wise... Im a noob at this and i have been paired with a pally for 2v2 which im not found of 2v2 on a hunter lol. Is there a better pairing? and is 3v3 and 5v5 easier i find that arenas seem like chess you have to place everything just rt to stay alive.. My current resillience rating is 815 is this too high or 2 low?? i dont get alot of help in these areas... Any advice would be well taken..... thanks alot for reading....
After not having done arenas in a while, I have decided to throw some time into arenas to see what we can do. I'm am more concentrated with 2v2 right now with a Resto Shammy, although a Holy Pally might be an option as well when the Shaman is unavailable..
I think I might have a decent PvP SV build but would like comments from those that have more experience than I.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Not sure if there is a successful 'cookie-cutter' spec out there but any comments would be appreciated.
PS: I am only running just over 500 Resilience, 20k HP in full Hateful. Still working on some off-pieces to bring my Resilience up further.
I am also trying to decide on a Survival PvP build, you might compare yours to:
So I've been doing 2's with my Resto Shaman friend and we're consistantly being pitted against Priest/Rogue and having trouble due to the healer LoSing me because of various pillars and terrain differences, thus making him hard to attack. Now, the problem isn't so much keeping me alive through said Rogue's damage, but it's getting away from him long enough to attack either of them before the Priest drains all of my Shaman partner's mana to nothing and we lose due to their longevity.
Now I may or may not have the perfect PvP marksman spec, and would also like to debate points spent with someone more knowledgable with these things if possible.
But back to my main point; Now, I'm pretty good when it comes to using flare after the Rogue vanishes, I can usually have one up within three fourths of a second after the global cooldown is up. I also use Freezing Trap, Scatter Shot (Along with Master's Call, either followed by Concussive Shot or used after Wing Clipping) or using Disengage and Concussive Shot. These work fine for getting away from him breifly, but only breifly because the rogue will then Sprint, run our of my flare range and get another stun opening on me, CloS my Freezing Trap when it's casted and continue attacking like nothing happened, use Deadly Throw on me and run at me or Blind me. it just seems like they have just as many ways (if not more-so) to get close to me and keep me in melee range and away from his healer as I do to get away.
I'd really like someone to tell me I'm doing something wrong, because it feels like I'm bashing my head against a jagged wall with this team, and half the teams we fight anymore are this setup.
Edit: If this isn't updated by the time there is a reply, I've moved the three points from Imp Steady Shot to Wild Quiver because I'm hardly ever (if at all) casting Steady Shot in arenas, and the burst from Wild Quiver seems like it might be nice.
Edit: If this isn't updated by the time there is a reply, I've moved the three points from Imp Steady Shot to Wild Quiver because I'm hardly ever (if at all) casting Steady Shot in arenas, and the burst from Wild Quiver seems like it might be nice.
I wouldn't have thought either ISS or WQ would be useful in PvP as the number of autoshots we fire is massively reduced in comparison to PvE.
Piercing shot - I'm not 100% about this talent in PvP as crits are less likely to come by.
Go for the throat - my pet is basically a utility pet, I'm not too concerned about their damage output so I dont use a focus dump, so GftT isn't needed.
Scatter Shot - vital
Trap Mastery - by default, the trap frost duration = CD so the points spent here aren't very useful. More of a buff to Black Arrow damage.
Surefooted - I've gone for reduction in movement impairing effects rather than stamina boost as stamina doesn't count for much when you can't move.
I'm not that great at PvP (check my armoury!) so take anything I say with a grain of salt!
I wouldn't have thought either ISS or WQ would be useful in PvP as the number of autoshots we fire is massively reduced in comparison to PvE.
Piercing shot - I'm not 100% about this talent in PvP as crits are less likely to come by.
Go for the throat - my pet is basically a utility pet, I'm not too concerned about their damage output so I dont use a focus dump, so GftT isn't needed.
Scatter Shot - vital
Trap Mastery - by default, the trap frost duration = CD so the points spent here aren't very useful. More of a buff to Black Arrow damage.
Surefooted - I've gone for reduction in movement impairing effects rather than stamina boost as stamina doesn't count for much when you can't move.
I'm not that great at PvP (check my armoury!) so take anything I say with a grain of salt!
Scatter Shot I have in my current spec, as I do Sure footed for the same reason you do. I put one point in Peircing Shots for the off chance I crit while fighting a Rogue/Mage/Anything else with a stealth to get them out of it with a bleed effect, I should probably move out of Focused Aim and into Imp Concussive Shot now that I look at it, at least until I'm no longer PvP hit capped.
You're also probably right about WQ, I'm not firing near as many Auto Shots as I would in a PvE encounter, better spent in Improved Barrage?
To discuss a few other things, I like points in Efficiency because even with it I find myself running out of mana now-and-again. I'd put points into Combat Experience but I'd hardly get any benifit at all from the Intellect due to how little there is on the PvP gear, so 2 points for 4% Agility does not seem worth it to me when there are other things to spend my points on. I love my points in Deflection because it cuts the duration of disarms in half, and Disarms are probably one of the more harsh and unforgiving things that can be done to a Hunter in Arena. I tried Entrapment not too long ago and didn't care for it too much, though the root was nice, I may we well just use freezing trap whenever it's off cooldown right? If we're fighting two Melee it's probably a rediculous team that is bound to lose anyways and frozen is much worse than just rooted.
I also just switched from a Cat pet to a Crab for Pin, and if timed right the Charge could potentially be used as an interupt which compliments my team setup very well adding it to Silencing Shot, Scatter Shot, Earth Shock and the occasional Hex for interrupting heals.
I don't want to inundate this thread with questions, but I just got my hunter to 80 and my friend and I were thinking of starting up a SV hunter/Disc priest. How well have these teams been faring? Is there anything new in 3.1 to be aware of for the group?
I have just begun dueling and learning the whole PvP aspect of hunters not too long ago, and I am having trouble keeping Paladins & Death Knights at a distance due to their Hand of Freedom, Stuns, Chains of Ice, and whatnot, especially given such a small area to work in (Dueling Flee Range). I use all my CC capabilites: Concussion Shots, Scattershot, Traps, Wyvern Sting, etc..., and somehow, they always catch up to me. This is problem number 1.
Problem number 2 is that everyone tell me to use Tranq shot to dispell Pally bubbles, and they swear that it works great; however, to date, it hasn't worked for me at all--maybe just bad luck. Is it supposed to work in conjunction with something else? Do I need a certain stat for it to penetrate? Or am I just basically doing something wrong?
I was wondering if any experienced PvPers/Duelers can give me some tips/tricks on how to put the odds in my favor when it comes to these troublesome classes. Darned Pallies think they own the world. I would really appreciate any help at all from my fellow hunters.
04/08/09, 6:37 AM
Similar Threads
