[Shaman] PvP + Enhancement = ? - Page 14

Malan · 02/20/08, 11:10 AM

Hmm... will mental quickness affect Ghost Wolf if its instant cast through talents?

Juice · 02/20/08, 11:34 AM

I think the change will be huge. We have tools at our disposal to make sure that whomever we're chasing or whomever is chasing us will be snared. Even if we are snared, shifting to ghost wolf instant gives us break away/closure potential. The low mana use is the icing on the cake. With water shield up if a warrior charges and hamstrings us, water shield returns enough mana for ghost wolf (plus rank 1 FS) - so even in a mana poor environment we'll have it when we need it.

I'm damn excited. I think I've still got my lvl 60 high warlord boots in my bank...

jlavarj · 02/20/08, 12:43 PM

Ghost wolf is dispellable but keep in mind the resto talent that adds dispel resistance to your spells, that might be pretty key in keeping not only shaman rage and your shields on, but giving you a chance at staying in ghost wolf form versus priests, hunters, etc.

Barell · 02/20/08, 1:39 PM

I really like the new change. Will at least give us something to work with.

As for working with mental quickness I am pretty sure it doesn't. Mental quickness only works on spells that have a base casting time of instant. Not 100% sure on that, but pretty sure.

As for using the boots, I don't think in an arena environment they will work. You are losing too many stats. But in places such as WSG, sure, they could be fun.

Have a question to add. Would like some opinions. In 5v5, running 2 melee dps (war/enh) and 3 caster, would you run Battle shout or commanding shout? We have been using commanding because all 5 people get a benefit. But I am thinking Battle could be better. Thoughts?

Malan · 02/20/08, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Barell

As for working with mental quickness I am pretty sure it doesn't. Mental quickness only works on spells that have a base casting time of instant. Not 100% sure on that, but pretty sure.

Well we can test it on live by respeccing to a NS + MQ spec and checking the mana consumption of an NS instant cast heal or lightning bolt.

drats · 02/20/08, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Barell

Have a question to add. Would like some opinions. In 5v5, running 2 melee dps (war/enh) and 3 caster, would you run Battle shout or commanding shout? We have been using commanding because all 5 people get a benefit. But I am thinking Battle could be better. Thoughts?

We tried to have CS going in and then switch to BS when we pop lust, but that was back in s1 when people weren't in full res.

Barell · 02/20/08, 1:54 PM

I did some research and NS spells supposedly get the benefit of mental quickness. So hopefully ghost wolf does. I will get on the test realm tonight when i get home. Kind of curious. If it has been patched of course.

brockback · 02/20/08, 4:57 PM

I had a few questions as to what stuff I should shoot for for pvp. I currently have 950 arena points and I don't know if I should go for the S3 pants or gloves. gloves I can get next week but the pants would be a couple weeks. If I get the pants and I use them for pvp mostly should I put the 40stam or 50ap leg armor on them? The pants gloves thing kinda depends on mail legs or t4 gloves dropping in kara too :-P

The last question I had was what are the top two trinkets to use for PVP?

here is my armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...th&n=Brockback

jlavarj · 02/20/08, 6:59 PM

This needs to be gospel for enhancement shaman just starting out in arena. Do whatever you can to get to 10k hit points and 350 resilience. You really won't be effective until you can ride through a stun lock combo and live long enough for your healer to get some decent heals off on you. Once you hit that level of stamina and resilience, you can start looking into swapping out for more attack power and damage.

The gloves are a really good choice for starting out since they have the nice 5 yard shock bonus. Pants with a nethercleft armor kit are great as well. I don't see how you can go wrong either way.

thevidon · 02/20/08, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by jlavarj

This needs to be gospel for enhancement shaman just starting out in arena. Do whatever you can to get to 10k hit points and 350 resilience. You really won't be effective until you can ride through a stun lock combo and live long enough for your healer to get some decent heals off on you. Once you hit that level of stamina and resilience, you can start looking into swapping out for more attack power and damage.

The gloves are a really good choice for starting out since they have the nice 5 yard shock bonus. Pants with a nethercleft armor kit are great as well. I don't see how you can go wrong either way.

I wouldn't stop with 10k health. We are the primary focus in 90% of the games we are in. I have 11.5k health and 400 res and will continue to stack both stam an res if only to punish the other teams who are guaranteed to focus me. I will be adding the S1 shield tomorrow and that will take me to 11.8k HP and 425 res. I am hoping this will be enough to stop the initial beatdown period that is guaranteed to be coming each game.

Of course, I am playing in the 15-1600's. Does it get any better in the higher brackets?

Lookit · 02/20/08, 8:14 PM

Pretty good news for enhancement shaman. From Kalgan on the official forums:

WoW BlueTracker: Shaman: The Thread

Edit: On second thought this is probably more fitting in the 2.4 Discussion thread. I'll leave the link above for those interested

gunsmithx · 02/20/08, 8:57 PM

Ok I was on the test server and yes Instant gw is fun ^_^. I did a quick test and it seems to be unaffected by mental quickness.

panny · 02/20/08, 9:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lookit

Pretty good news for enhancement shaman. From Kalgan on the official forums:

WoW BlueTracker: Shaman: The Thread

Edit: On second thought this is probably more fitting in the 2.4 Discussion thread. I'll leave the link above for those interested

Should be fine to discuss it in this thread. I think Kalgan's quite accurate when it comes to our viabilties in each of the areas. Seems like they'd be happy if each spec had a bracket they were quite good in (Ele for 5v5, Enh for 2v2, Resto for 3v3).

Originally Posted by thevidon

I wouldn't stop with 10k health. We are the primary focus in 90% of the games we are in. I have 11.5k health and 400 res and will continue to stack both stam an res if only to punish the other teams who are guaranteed to focus me. I will be adding the S1 shield tomorrow and that will take me to 11.8k HP and 425 res. I am hoping this will be enough to stop the initial beatdown period that is guaranteed to be coming each game.

Of course, I am playing in the 15-1600's. Does it get any better in the higher brackets?

How much resil/health is really going to be dependant on your team mates and your bracket. I wouldn't neglect offensive stats. We only really apply pressure through damage, and if you don't do enough, momentum is going to consistantly be on your opponents' side. At the moment, I have ~370 resil and 11.5k health without a shield. Swapping in my [Merciless Gladiator's Shield Wall] when I'm being focused or when my healers needs to drink is more effective than having your default gear high in defense/low in offense. The armour is actually probably more useful than the HP/resil. You only need as much HP as to survive burst or chained heal lockouts on your healer. Resil has this effect too, but with the added benefit of increasing the efficiency of your healer's mana.

For example, the last couple 3v3s I've tried are:
-War/Resto Druid
-War/Holy Pal
-Spriest/Lock

In the first two teams, I swapped out my secondary trinket ([Bloodlust Brooch] or [Darkmoon Card: Wrath]) for a [Timelapse Shard] and spent almost the entire match with a shield on. For the second, I actually swapped in a few leather pieces because I was rarely the kill target and our whole game plan revolved around killing someone fast.

(All these teams were below 1800, 2v2 was the only one I ever hit 1900 in, so take this with a grain of salt).

Psychodays · 02/20/08, 10:49 PM

We're hoping to get at least 1 spec viable in 2v2 for this patch (we're thinking Enhance)

Just speculating, but it has to mean some sort of anit-rogue/anti-cc.

Dano · 02/21/08, 2:57 PM

So.... I ranned a weird combo last night Enhancement Shaman, MS Hunter, Resto Druid. And the team overall went pretty good... we beat most of the teams except the druid rogue and warrior team, which that team raped our druid so fast its not even funny... But i'm surprised, this build farms RMP teams ez, have the priest viper stinged while u dps down the mage and lock his frostbolts + polymorphs down. By the time the mage use his first ice block, it should be GG for the team cuz the priest should be almost oom. Haha, I think you guys should try this build out when u get a chance, it has potential! We went from 1670 - 1800 in 1 night.

panny · 02/21/08, 8:25 PM

While helping some friends get points last night (Disc Priest still with two pieces of S1, Warrior with Deep Thunder) around the 3v3 1700 rating, we came across Zagine's team (Druid/Lock/Enh Sham). After being bumrushed, we noticed that his warlock was UA rather than SL/SL and crushed him. Looking at his armoury, I saw that he has [Swift Skyfire Diamond] as his meta socket, giving him minor speed already, allowing him to use Surefooted on his boots. I've always used [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] because I also use my S3 helm for PvE and that was my focus at the time. But when considering PvP, extra crit damage isn't going to be nearly as good due to the difference in crit rates (from something like 45% with raid buffs to 16%).

The choices are:
[Swift Skyfire Diamond] + Surefooted
[Powerful Earthstorm Diamond] + Boar's Speed
[Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] + Boar's Speed

What do you guys think is best?

Originally Posted by Dano

So.... I ranned a weird combo last night Enhancement Shaman, MS Hunter, Resto Druid. And the team overall went pretty good... we beat most of the teams except the druid rogue and warrior team, which that team raped our druid so fast its not even funny... But i'm surprised, this build farms RMP teams ez, have the priest viper stinged while u dps down the mage and lock his frostbolts + polymorphs down. By the time the mage use his first ice block, it should be GG for the team cuz the priest should be almost oom. Haha, I think you guys should try this build out when u get a chance, it has potential! We went from 1670 - 1800 in 1 night.

I've been wanting to try MS Hunter/Holy Paladin for a long time now, but I can't find a Hunter. Glad to hear that's working out for you. Few questions: Against RMP, who is their Rogue on? The thing I fear most against any Rogue/Mage team is being stunlocked while a Mage sets up a Shatter Combo. And how did you do against double healer + warrior?

Griff · 02/21/08, 10:14 PM

The choices are:
[Swift Skyfire Diamond] + Surefooted
[Powerful Earthstorm Diamond] + Boar's Speed
[Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] + Boar's Speed

What do you guys think is best?

I will be going for Swift Skyfire and Surefooted when i get the money.

Reasons:
Direct AP is always good, and the runspeed allows for the extra hit(especially if you dont have Hit from talents) and the root/snare resist.

With the stun resist meta, unless you are orc, i honestly don't think the 5% really helps when you are losing out on the AP, this may seem illogical but i tried it, and i still found myself being locked down by a rogue.

12 crit IMO isnt worth it because of resilience. You can get better crit from other item slots.

Barell · 02/21/08, 10:32 PM

I have been looking into switching over to a Swift skyfire/Surefooted setup.

I think it would be the most competative. And the gems for it are really good.

My only problem is I can't find a Surefooted enchanter. No one knows one.

Stoical · 02/22/08, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by panny

The choices are:
[Swift Skyfire Diamond] + Surefooted
[Powerful Earthstorm Diamond] + Boar's Speed
[Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] + Boar's Speed

I don't like the [Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] + Boar's Speed combo; compared to [Swift Skyfire Diamond] + Surefooted, you're basically comparing 24 AP + 10 hit vs. 12 crit + 9 stam. I'd rather have the AP + hit, but this may depend on what you're lacking, and whether you use helm or boots for PvE. Even if you don't like losing the stam, you could use the first combo and trade a +8 strength gem for a +12 stam and still come out ahead.

My shaman is an orc, so my dilemma is swift/surefooted vs. powerful/boar's (fortunately for me, my wife is an enchanter with surefooted, so I don't have a problem finding one). More stun resist vs. root resist. I'm leaning towards the stun resist, since a teammate may be able to dispel or BoF the root, but no one can dispel off the stun.

Shinok · 02/22/08, 4:46 PM

Some questions for consideration given the 2.4 ghost wolf change:

1) Does increased run speed work on ghost wolf form?
2) If it does *not* work in ghost wolf, would you agree that the need to have it on your gear goes down as you now have an instant-cast, speed-increasing ability? Then you could use surefooted / Relentless Earthstorm.

Barell · 02/22/08, 5:00 PM

I think the need to have the minor run speed on your gear will always be there. Almost everyone in an arena environment has it. If you do not they will pull away from you. Takes a little bit, but they will. I don't think you could afford to be using your GCD's to keep switching to GW to catch up. There is just too many other things you need to do. You won't be in GW that much time, most of the time you will be in normal form.

As for the stun resist, i think it depends on what bracket you play in. Not everyone can stun, so when you come across a team that cannot, it is wasted. But thats my relatively low arena ranking opinion.

I also found a Surefooted enchanter, the only one on the server. So I will go this way. Going to try it out this weekend if I can get it done in time.

Az- · 02/22/08, 7:33 PM

I am just starting 2v2 with a hunter and having fun with it.

Seems from reading this the first pc of arena gear to get if you have good weapons is the gloves?

Did I read that right.

Malan · 02/22/08, 8:29 PM

Just got a tip and I hit up the PTR. Shamanistic Rage can no longer be removed. Its no longer a magic effect, which means even Mass Dispel doesn't work. (Tested with a shaman and a priest to determine this)

thevidon · 02/22/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Just got a tip and I hit up the PTR. Shamanistic Rage can no longer be removed. Its no longer a magic effect, which means even Mass Dispel doesn't work. (Tested with a shaman and a priest to determine this)

Hot damn.

If they make GW remove CC when cast then that will be all the changes I think we need to be viable.

jlavarj · 02/22/08, 8:34 PM

This would remove the need to spec into nature's guidance for the new dispel resist.