Mhm, a dispelled Heroism/Bloodlust will still be crap.

Assuming it applies to Frost Shock/Flame Shock, I'll still take it. Also makes Water Breathing a bit more useful for buff protection.

You dont want to attack warrior anyway. It just gives him rage. Go for priest instead. HE is more fragile, cant mana burn and warrior will have less rage.

Half-assed? Right. How i came up with the number was I did some testing ingame not looking at some calculator someone else made. I had a warlock friend of mine go out to durotar and I logged in about 8 or so deaths of hits, whites, SS, and WFs, in my PvP gear. I then had him take off ~850 armor and did it again. I averaged the non-crit numbers for both whites and WFs for each armor rating, subtracted the dmg of the higher armor from the lower armor, to thus get the dmg gained per hit. Then calculating the number of MH and OH strikes 100% hasted from 2.6, i took the number of each and multiplied that by the dmg gained from the armor pen for each strike's values. Then i took the value of 10, for the 2 strikes in 5 MH WFs for the 15 sec timer and multiplied that by the dmg gained shown through wf numbers. I then added all that together, MH, OH, and WF dmg to get around 650. And that is with optimal conditions of 100% flurry and a MH WF on every CD AND on a CLOTH target, which should offset any complaints about the gains being averaged.
Is the number 100% accurate? No, but its close enough for me that it doesnt matter, and the gains of the armor pen are even worse against higher armor targets as well as buffed targets.




Onto other things, that post from kalgan gets me a bit pumped, cause its a pretty accurate assessment, and for them to say they're boosting enhancement's viability gets the blood pumping. I just hope the changes they made to make queue times shorter make 2s viable for me to play, i just cant stand the 10 min queue times.

About CS vs BS, if i recall, you could have your team all on one side of the starting area and the complete opposite corner is far enough away to not get the shout change. I could be wrong on this though. I personally think CS is better for the whole time anyways. Just cause you pop bloodlust wont change them damaging you, and especially if you're the main target. Battleshout is nice but it wont swing the game for you, whilst you dieing probably will swing it for them.

On the same note as the BS/CS, i'm more in favor of resil over dmg gems, this is my own opinion, but 180 more AP (since theres only 9 sockets on glad/vindic, but dont forget that you need meta reqs too..) isnt going to be a deciding factor in killing someone, compared to you staying alive. And sustained dmg has never really been the deciding factor in my death, its been CC on the healer or chain crits.


In regards to boot/helm, I guess i stand apart in thinking minor run speed isnt that big a deal. We have so much slow that i've never once said to myself "if i had minor run speed i'd have killed that guy". For me the factor isnt the small amount of speed running back to them, its things stopping me allowing them distance in the first place, i.e. stuns and snares. So while no i dont see either surefooted or the stun resist proc enough for my tastes, when it does its noticable and the guy i'm chasing feels the hurt. However as someone else said i think, it is also reliant on your team and the bracket you're playing for. In 5s you still want surefooted even if you have a priest or pld, but in 3s if you have a priest or pld on your team you dont really need the snare resist cause you can just get cleansed.



I saw the change to SR and all i can say is finally. I'm still glad for the dispel resist because it still protects alot of buffs including Bloodlust and most notably frost shock. Priests will have to dispel themselves a bit more to get away, and water shield will help protect in 3s/5s more as well.
The ghost wolf change looks promising, i'll have to try it out in games to give a more detailed comment, since you cant shock etc in it, it should still be a good short burst distance mechanic.

Firstly, this is a horrible way of testing ArPen, since it's pretty obvious the numbers are going to differ depending your current stats. Why do you bother doing a practical experiment when you're just taking results then putting them through weird theoretical cases? Just run the maths.

Secondly, this doesn't actually address the question of Executioner vs Mongoose, since you didn't perform a test case for Mongoose (not that you could within any reasonable time frame). Look at my reasoning and tell me how it's wrong:

Weird theoretical cases? Umm, thats called maximum potential there buddy. This thread is about PvP. I've already stated that for pve purposes, its different and with the constant dmg contact it can stack up with mongoose. However for PvP you're rarely going to be fighting under optimal conditions.
Your reasoning is flawed for teh following reasons. You're basing said dmg gains off of getting someone to 0 armor. Thats never going to happen in PvP unless you have a rogue on your team doing expose armor. Thats -2k from a 5 point shot, 3k if they're talented into it, which they likely will be if they're on a team that will be using it. That will already put a clothie to 0, and the only classes it'll let you get you close to putting them near 0 with a proc and expose are rogues and druids, the class that dodges with tons of melee outs and stuns, and the class that can kite you all over.

You say its a horrible way of testing armor pen, but I dont get how it is. You're just taking the theoretical % gains and comparing that side by side, not even considering how it'll flow in the fight. % gains work for pve cause your target isnt moving around on you generally.
This is a pvp comparison so how else would you compare it, other than taking your own stats and testing against an opponent with the gear that you'll likely encounter (full s3 cloth). An unbuffed mage has 19% DR with near full s3, and taking off near 850, he had 15%. ~4% increase.
The testing with the "weird theoretical case" was done to see the maximum potential dmg gain that there would be, and so I use that number as a basis to judge FOR MYSELF what I would prefer to have. At most under the best of the best you could see (without bloodlust) coming to around 650 dmg, or the large increase chance to crit and the small amount of haste. The extra dmg from executioner is worth the extra dmg from 2 white MH crits after resil mitigation, so i'll take the chance to get even 1 more crit than before than to go for the gains from the unrealistic max potential.
And then from there because the test was on cloth, it only gets worse on higher armor targets.

Ive got a 2v2 with a Holy Paladin and the team we have the most problems with seems to be rogue/healer
, especially druid/rogue.

I usually just try to keep damage on the healer but its so hard with the rogue stunning me every couple of seconds, especially mace spec(random stuns that win games are BS).

So any tips for these match ups would be great.

In my experience, male Draenei are too fat for this. The rest of my team were able to range BS but I couldn't.

The best tip I can think of is to get a different healer. That probably sounds flippant, but it's true. My 3v3 for a while was holy/enhancement/warlock, and the combination of a healer with poor CC and me with no CC was just miserable. My .02 is that for a 2v2 with a healer, you really need a druid or priest.

I think enhance shaman are one of the few specs/classes where in a 2v2 match with a healer, the other team will target the dps first. Conventional wisdom says kill the healer before you try to kill the warrior/rogue/etc. But often because of our extremely kitable nature, the other team will focus on us first. My partner (resto shaman) and I have tried to get around this by using pillars and attempting to LOS over anxious warriors and rogues from their healers. Once you have the perfect storm of a nice SS+windfury crit and you drop them low, you want to save your earthshock to stop the next heal from the healer as he runs around the corner. If the other team has already used their cooldowns (blind, fear, etc) you might pull this off and get the kill on the dps. Otherwise it's just a long mana war as we see who goes OOM first, the other healer or my shaman while we keep moving around pillars trying for more kill oportunities. It leads to very frustrating and long games against healer + dps teams.

Have you tried going on the Rogue instead? When did 2s with my Priest, the only way to to beat a healer/rogue team was drag the Rogue out of LoS and perform quick switches. Use HoJ early to make them burn their trinket so you know you can get a full duration stun when you have someone low to seal the deal.

I had already gotten Surefooted on my old lvl 60 blood guard boots in anticipation of instant cast ghost wolf! Seriously, the stats on those boots are like 12 stam/int/str and the blue run speed bonus! Any shaman that wore those in arena would be taking a serious hit to resilience and stamina at the least.

All kidding aside, I wonder about the level of planning at blizzard HQ that can catch this as a possible abuse and let rogues roll an entire season with Hemo + AR + Prep before deciding that it is over powered. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Blizzard has given up on true balance as impossible (which it nearly is with some many variables in the equations) and instead has gone to a "rogues get OP status in season 2, then we'll nerf them for season 3 and buff druids. Elemental Shaman had a nice run, let's nerf them for season 4." Hopefully season 4 is the season of the enhance shaman buffs being over powered.

So I'm assuming that WF on MH and FT on a fast OH will become the new norm.

Is flametongue on PTR still dealing damage in addition to the debuff, or did they make it healing debuff only with no damage dealt?

Its the same flametongue we all know and love, except now it reduces healing by 50% for 5 sec.

This patch is looking extremely sexy. But at the risk of sounding ungrateful, I really hope they streamline the enhancement tree a bit while they're at it. With the toughness change, that just added 5 more points that any PvP enhancement shaman will need to spend. That in itself isn't terrible, but the first 5 points in the tree are basically a complete waste any way you look at it, and 2 points in guardian totems or anticipation is a pretty big waste as well. Shrinking toughness, rearranging some talents, and/or replacing shield spec would all be very welcome.

On the FT change, does the MS debuff proc on every hit? Edit: According to the WoW forums, it does.

I came up with the same thing - other than taking shield spec over the extra int. They have kinda pigeon holed us with the 5 points we now need in toughness.

i disagree with putting toughness on the first tier though. That will make resto shaman OP imo, it'll be the new druid of 2.4

Hmm, FT change is tricky for me. For it to work fully they would need to fix WF and remove that 3 second cooldown. Will have to play around with Yo simulator and see what the dps hit will be. And it is final nail in 2H coffin kinda. Also i agree this is bloating enhance tree even more.

Do I understand correctly that Flametongue weapon reduces the outgoing heals, while MS reduces the incoming ones ? If this is correct it would be possible to reduce the healings by 75% if the Shaman hits the healer and the warrior attacks the focus target.

Where's the incoming/outgoing from?

Imo, these changes are a good buff for 2v2 via healing debuff, although I'm afraid that warrior would still outdps you, but at least it will make the bracket more colorful.
Buff for 3v3/5v5 via Toughness changes/Undispelable SR, but nerf due to the SR reduction in duration. I think it was completely unneeded.
Totem GCD is a good move... I guess.

It sounded like Anetheron's Carrion Swarm. Reducing outgoing heals.