I used to, but I found I usually didn't have the GCDs on keeping more than a few targets clean anyway. I've been working on waiting on shock cooldowns to keep up focus interrupting more, and I don't hold to the "you must be always doing something with your GCDs" school of thought.
Hmm, do any of you use a mouseover macro on a gladiator frame to purge people?
I have my right click set on Proximo to Purge. I also use Clique which purges hostile targets, or depoisons friendly targets on right click. With party frames, party targets, focus frame, focus target, target and my targettarget, you pretty much have many people at your view to instantly purge while still keeping your target.
Totem of the Crusader
Tools: Earth Totem
Increases mounted speed of all party members by 20% while in range of the totem.
I used to, but I found I usually didn't have the GCDs on keeping more than a few targets clean anyway.
Well I wasn't so worried about keeping them stripped in the middle of the round, more along the lines of just having an easier method of stripping the initial buffs off of all the targets as we're engaging. Or making sure that I strip Bloodlust off of all 5 so that a warrior that we're not focusing on or the healer isn't taking advantage of all the haste while we pound on something else. The idea is that I don't want to lose my current target by having to target each guy individually and purge him a few times to remove Bloodlust or whatever else.
Well I wasn't so worried about keeping them stripped in the middle of the round, more along the lines of just having an easier method of stripping the initial buffs off of all the targets as we're engaging. Or making sure that I strip Bloodlust off of all 5 so that a warrior that we're not focusing on or the healer isn't taking advantage of all the haste while we pound on something else. The idea is that I don't want to lose my current target by having to target each guy individually and purge him a few times to remove Bloodlust or whatever else.
I dont strip everyone of their initial buffs either. I probably should, but it seems like I never have enough GCDs, especially in the begining when getting momenteum is so important.
My experience with mouse over (on Blind and Earth Shocks) aren't super positive. The number of times I've wasted a Blind on a pet or totem... requiring you to face the target to purge can be annoying too, especially since you should e mouse turning.
The beginning of most 5's matches involves me trying desperately to stay alive while being pounded by the other teams DPS. I will usually try and keep WF/grounding down and weave grounding in between WF totem buff timers (10 secs). I will often bloodlust at this early point in the matches so that my healers can keep up with the damage which is coming in.
It seems like our win ratio is very good when I can manage to survive the initial burst. In this regard, I think hunters are really the worst thing to see on the other team. They just eat shaman alive.
We came up against a double hunter team last night and went 1-1. We lost the first time because they drained our healers while constantly pounding me. The second game we focused one of the hunters to start instead of the warlock and it worked out much better. It helped that i could stay on top of one of them to cut down on the incoming burst. Their team comp was hunter/hunter/pally/priest/warlock.
How do you recommend to gem/enchant for my matrix of holy pala+ war + enhc shaman 3v3?
My gear quality is the basic glad + vindicator honor gear.
My shaman was initially gemed for dmg, but now I'm thinking of switching to a much higher resil setup.
In like 90% of my matches so far i was the enemy's focus and i spend almost all my time with a shield...
My dps ofc suffers greatly like this, but our basic strategy is that my warrior does most of the dmg (with help of WF totem) and i support him with shocks and purge.
Well, it looks like 2.4 will go out without any more class changes. I think we recieved some decent buffs, but not enough to see us as competitive in 2's across the board (as enhance. . . minus the SR change which is a mix of fix/nerf).
What's the general consensus here? Happy with the changes but think we still need more?
Personally, I'll be giving up our healing push-back resist talent to grab toughness, which is a big loss. For that reason I'll probably get more involved in 3's and 5's that has a dedicated healer.
Seeing as we don't have an MS effect, we really can't do 2's with a healer, making the loss of push-back resist in 2's a big deal. BM hunter and enh shammy is appealing though. . .
Well, it looks like 2.4 will go out without any more class changes. I think we recieved some decent buffs, but not enough to see us as competitive in 2's across the board (as enhance. . . minus the SR change which is a mix of fix/nerf).
What's the general consensus here? Happy with the changes but think we still need more?
Personally, I'll be giving up our healing push-back resist talent to grab toughness, which is a big loss. For that reason I'll probably get more involved in 3's and 5's that has a dedicated healer.
Seeing as we don't have an MS effect, we really can't do 2's with a healer, making the loss of push-back resist in 2's a big deal. BM hunter and enh shammy is appealing though. . .
What's everyone else planning on?
I've tried 2's with a BM hunter and it went horribly. Everytime he would target someone they would start pillar kiting and I was unable to hold them in place and one of us would die long before our target. Double rogue teams also slaughtered us because by the time I came out of stunlock I was at 20% or so and both rogues were at full because they would just pop evasion and my hunter couldnt damage them.
Anything with a druid healer was basically impossible, which means that 2's with a hunter are basically impossible.
With the new changes, resto shaman/warrior will be a pretty strong pairing. I would give that a shot before going with a hunter if you are resto.
That's a shame. I've heard some good things about BM and enhance. I think the general strat was to put mortal shot up on the target, pop BL and TBW and go to town on the MS'ed target. Outhealing the damage is apparently pretty well impossible. CC would cause problems for the shammy (for a change). Just theorycraft, but I've heard a few people got to 2k with this combo.
That's a shame. I've heard some good things about BM and enhance. I think the general strat was to put mortal shot up on the target, pop BL and TBW and go to town on the MS'ed target. Outhealing the damage is apparently pretty well impossible. CC would cause problems for the shammy (for a change). Just theorycraft, but I've heard a few people got to 2k with this combo.
Give it a shot.....I had terrible results but ymmv.
There was no "going to town". I could not stay on a target and he got pillar kited. Druids are impossible to catch, and they will root/cyclone you and you will never be able to get your target. Anytime it started to look like their dps was in trouble they would root me, cyclone my hunter and then the dps would resume kiting the hunter while they got healed up via lifebloom and the druid got in ticks of drinking.
There is never really a time where both of you will be on the focus target at the same time unless you hit some weird team like shaman/shaman or shaman/paladin. The problem like I said is that rogues and druids will be the bane of your existence and they totally dominate the 2's bracket and 90% of your games will have at least 1 of those 2 classes in it.
I watched that video with the 2h wielding shaman and the hunter but those matches were not at all the way it goes. They must have been playing in the 1300's or something because it seemed like people just rushed them and stood in the open while they got slaughtered.
Nah, what you say sounds pretty fair. In my initial post I said that I'd be sticking to 3's and 5's. I guess that holds.
As I see it, as an enhance shaman we need to go hard early for a quick win and need a partner that can burst with us, have CC, be survivable, do damage under pressure and have a MS effect. . . It's asking too much from one other person/class to make up for all that we lack. Pretty dissapointed that Kalgan didn't come through on that front.
I'm thinking rogue, druid, enhance for a 3's setup and maybe the 3 melee zerg for 5's come 2.4. . . . see how we go.
The thing about enhance + BM is that a lot of the time, if you do win, it will be because you surprised the other team with the damage, and if you get them again they will definitely be ready for it when you pop all your cooldowns. With this in mind, one of the better things you can do is make sure your hunter has 3/3 in imp wing clip, and 1/3 in entrapment. More in entrapment would be ideal but that's all you can get with 41 in beast and 11 in marks for aimed shot. The important thing about this lineup is that the shaman cannot be the one snaring the target, frost shock's cooldown is too long, is dispellable, and costs you earth shock as well. The shaman needs to be able to earth shock and grounding incoming CC. It's the hunter's job to keep the target snared, or more specifically, he runs in, spams the hell out of wing clip until an imp wing clip proc happens, drops a frost trap beneath the target's feet so if he trinkets the imp wing clip he's still snared, then you pop TBW and lust with the target stuck there. Don't forget to keep grounding and earth shocking CC. The nice part about this is that if they are pillar humping the shaman can use the same pillar to LOS CC when earth shock and grounding are on cooldown.
Basically imp wing clip is really obnoxious, losing mortal shots to get it is fine because you will do FAR far more damage by preventing them from pillar humping while you have lust+TBW going. You have to be able to "go to town" on the guy and that's probably the best way to make it happen.
Yeah, they're all fair points too. Missing aimed shot seems like a lot to give up, though.
No, you can still get aimed shot - something like a 41/11/9 spec or so. Mortal shots is the critical damage bonus talent in marks that you give up to get the points in imp clip.
No, you can still get aimed shot - something like a 41/11/9 spec or so. Mortal shots is the critical damage bonus talent in marks that you give up to get the points in imp clip.
Ahh, so you can. I can relate to your point about the shaman saving their shock CD's to interrupt CC. As it currently stands, even if I do this (as resto atm) I still find that I "miss" interrupting the cast sometimes. Shaman friends tells me that I did catch it. . . but I still sit in a poly got 10 secs or go running like an idiot in fear for 10 secs, etc.
That's a lag thing though. I'm at 400MS and 30 fps usually (in Australia) on a cable connection. That's a massive disadvantage to a shaman that's a reactive class. Especially considering that ES is not off the GCD like CS is. If I watershield or drop a totem (not as big of a deal come 2.4) I'll struggle to catch any 1.5 sec cast.
Nah, what you say sounds pretty fair. In my initial post I said that I'd be sticking to 3's and 5's. I guess that holds.
As I see it, as an enhance shaman we need to go hard early for a quick win and need a partner that can burst with us, have CC, be survivable, do damage under pressure and have a MS effect. . . It's asking too much from one other person/class to make up for all that we lack. Pretty dissapointed that Kalgan didn't come through on that front.
I'm thinking rogue, druid, enhance for a 3's setup and maybe the 3 melee zerg for 5's come 2.4. . . . see how we go.
You can get that with a restokin Druid in 2v2 (Cyclone is 100% MS effect :P). Wrath spam with Bloodlust is pretty sweet burst.
I played around on test a bit... Toughness needs to apply to root effects, not sure why it doesn't (probably cos Kalgan plays a Frost Mage right).
You can get that with a restokin Druid in 2v2 (Cyclone is 100% MS effect :P). Wrath spam with Bloodlust is pretty sweet burst.
I played around on test a bit... Toughness needs to apply to root effects, not sure why it doesn't (probably cos Kalgan plays a Frost Mage right).
Lol, yeah. Balance is getting a decent nerf with the cyclone change though. . . My current 2's partner is a lock and I can't bail on him because we've become good mates. As soon as I switch to enhance we're really going to struggle, esp. against warrior druid teams. He's not great on CC'ing and defensive dispel with his pup (leaves it on auto). I'm probably better off just mucking around with him in 2's and getting more serious in 3's and 5's.
NFI with what's going on with toughness. I'll still be taking it because we need help with mobility so bad, but I hate giving up out push back talent. It makes us so much less hybrid. Pally's and Druids have this equivalent talent as 2nd teir too, which pisses me off. . .
Allowing toughness be taken as a 2nd tier talent would probably increase resto survivability too far without adequately requiring them to sink points into the tree. I won't compare it to druids or paladins, I think they have different issues than we do.
Allowing toughness be taken as a 2nd tier talent would probably increase resto survivability too far without adequately requiring them to sink points into the tree. I won't compare it to druids or paladins, I think they have different issues than we do.
Grimden is talking about Healing Focus.
Anyway, the way my 2v2 restokin partner played, he never actually used moonkin, he just healed and CCed as normal until there was a good moment to help me burst. We'd switch around DPS until both were vulnerable, CC one and kill the other, using shocks to stop any casted heals. We got up to 1900 this way with only two losses, though amazingly enough, we only had 1 Druid/War matchup. He had the best Resto gear short of a Memento and sold 2k Personal Rating for 8k gold so I had a pretty good partner.
Anyway, the way my 2v2 restokin partner played, he never actually used moonkin, he just healed and CCed as normal until there was a good moment to help me burst. We'd switch around DPS until both were vulnerable, CC one and kill the other, using shocks to stop any casted heals. We got up to 1900 this way with only two losses, though amazingly enough, we only had 1 Druid/War matchup. He had the best Resto gear short of a Memento and sold 2k Personal Rating for 8k gold so I had a pretty good partner.
Yeah, I should have been a bit more clear about the healing focus thing. I'd forgotten what it was called and CBF lookin it up.
Bloody good effort with the balance resto druid. I think I'd struggle to find anyone of that quality.
For those who play the cleave setup (MS, Enh, ShS, Pala, Priest), what spec is your preferred one?
I was leaning towards Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (00/48/13) but I was thinking; we are in that setup to be focused on and take the initial beating and shock as much CC/Heals as we can, so I started thinking about this, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (15/46/00, or something similar of course, you get the picture).
What do you think? This is ONLY for the above mentioned setup, so focus the feedback on that. More armor, bigger totem range and capped with shocks vs 10% less damage taken from frost mages and elemental shamans and 1 less second cooldown on shocks, with a little more damage on them (and a bigger radius on earthbind).
For those who play the cleave setup (MS, Enh, ShS, Pala, Priest), what spec is your preferred one?
I was leaning towards Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (00/48/13) but I was thinking; we are in that setup to be focused on and take the initial beating and shock as much CC/Heals as we can, so I started thinking about this, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (15/46/00, or something similar of course, you get the picture).
What do you think? This is ONLY for the above mentioned setup, so focus the feedback on that. More armor, bigger totem range and capped with shocks vs 10% less damage taken from frost mages and elemental shamans and 1 less second cooldown on shocks, with a little more damage on them (and a bigger radius on earthbind).
What's the general feel about that?
I run this setup and just specced 15/46/0 from 0/44/17. You will not be healing much, as you are going to be focused the entire time by at least one of the other teams dps (rogue or warrior). The 10% deduction is really nice for facing the typical 2345/6 setups. Most of the time I am trying to focus shock a healer, since I can never get near my target, so the 1 second shock reduction is really helpful.
Give 15/46/0 a try. I really like it, and it gives us enough points in enhance for the skills that are now required. The only thing I really miss is the totem range, but having 20% wider earthbind radius is pretty sweet. Also I am almost always on the same target as my warrior, so WF totem is being dropped right next to him and the range isn't really needed.
I checked your build, you'd rather have 10% slower attacks after a Flurry and a bit more armor (and movement impairing effects reduction next patch, but that's not now) and not the other way around with 5/5 Flurry and 3/5 Toughness?
I checked your build, you'd rather have 10% slower attacks after a Flurry and a bit more armor (and movement impairing effects reduction next patch, but that's not now) and not the other way around with 5/5 Flurry and 3/5 Toughness?
I get very little face time with my target. I mean VERY little. Flurry is not only reduced in effectiveness by resilience, but also by this limitation in time on my target. When I do actually get a crit, it is usually as my target runs in front of me trying to get away from my warrior and hit them on the run.....then they are immediately back out of range again.
I think the reduction to crippling poison and hamstring are worth the loss of 2 points in flurry. You can also pull the 2 points from Unleashed Rage if you want to keep 5/5 Flurry.....but I would rather increase my rogue and warriors DPS whenever possible.
03/18/08, 5:53 AM
Similar Threads
