Wait... I could have sworn Blizzard went around and corrected all abilities that proc on crits to still work with resilience even if the crit "doesn't occur" because of resilience? Was Flurry an exception to that?

Resilience has no effect whatsoever on flurry uptime in general. What crit is lost by resilience is rerolled separately.

I was told this was only for skills which required incoming crits....."when you are crit xxx" type skills. Can someone please verify which is correct?

Even if applies to flurry also, my calculation on the value of points in flurry vs. unleashed rage remains entirely unchanged. I get very little time with my target, so even if flurry procs I get little benefit from it. My warrior and rogue on the other hand are always on their target and get the full benefit of unleashed rage proccing.

Just a thought Niwi.

If your all about surviving the initial onslaught, why not shield specialization? Give you that little bit extra. And I can see you point about unleashed rage. Since your rogue and warrior are the dps, it does make sense.

I am currently specced into elemental, just trying it out. But I think I am going to go back to resto in 2.4. One thought I had is with using poison cleansing totem. Since quite often its spammed against rogues and such, with tidal focus it costs the same as cure poison. So in 2.4 it would be far superior given that GCD of totems is reduced. I know the range is shorter, but does everyone use the totem now anyways? Or is it just me?

I was shield spec right up until this new build. It does help against rogues, but not so much against warriors. In the 5's comp which was being asked about you have a warrior on you 95% of the time....and a rogue maybe 30%. Usually a rogue will go for our priest. I felt the points were better spent on some extra mana given how pathetically small our pool is (which is perverted becuase the talent is worth less with a smaller pool).

I may switch back to shield spec. I am debating it.

On crit related abilities - if you have 30% to crit, your target has -10% to be crit from resil, then it's the exact same flurry uptime as if you had 20% crit versus a 0 resil target. The game does not track "converted crits" at all. The way they implemented it for beneficial abilities that proc when you are crit on, they take your -% chance to be crit, and that percentage is the chance you have to gain abilities such as enrage, eye of the storm, focused will, and so on, on ANY hit you take. So for example, a priest with -10% to be crit from resil has a 10% chance to gain focused will any time he is hit by any melee or ranged attack or direct damage spell.

You can verify this functionality by wearing 0 resil, standing in a campfire in town, which has a 0% chance to crit. You will not see any of those abilities proc, ever. Now slap on 400 resil, and go stand in the campfire, you will see these reactive abilities like enrage, focused will, and such proc from campfire damage. Note that if your class has multiple abilities of this type, they have 2 separate rolls for each ability to proc. Thus it's possible for a warrior to have enrage up but not blood craze, or vice versa.

So abilities that involve you critting on your opponent, like flurry and seal fate, are directly impacted by resilience, since "converted crits" are not tracked at all.

Where's the improved wolf in your talents? Don't you think it's a good talent to kite around? Especially in the cleave setup, you can kite the initial burst with BoF on you.

I didn't include it yet because this for current servers, not for 2.4. In 2.4 the 2 points in anticipation obviously go into Imp Ghost Wolf.

With my limited experience in 5v5 running enh shaman, we did around 30-ish games last night in a cleave team (sadly, about 20 were against a mirror match that outgeared/outplayed us, although we won several games against them) we did very good, and come 2.4, this is my proposed build for the shaman
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I know many will disagree with the loss of Totemic Mastery/Focus and Nature's Guidance, but from what I've seen, they're not a killer.
Survivability is by far the most important thing for everyone with the limited crowd control of this team. Imp Earthbind helps huge deal, as well as Piercing Howl, since when priest gets trained, he needs to kite properly. Other than that, enhancement performed really well and I'm quite happy to play a lineup that's not 234X, drain or any other fotm.

Has anyone here tested out the Storms Deck as their second trinket? Maybe I'm just crazy, but it seems to me like it would be an ideal trinket for fighting against anybody that has resilience. I know I would like to see a few more crits when fighting vengeful geared toons. Any feedback would be appreciated, I dont want to drop 1k gold just yet.

Could be a good option for keeping Unleashed Rage and Shamanistic Focus up.

Because elemental shamans and frost mages are nowhere to be found in 5v5.

Ok? Now face a team with no mage and no elemental shaman. What good are those talent points doing you now?

Do you also advocate not taking Shield Spec, Anticipation and Toughness cos when you meet caster team 15 points wasted?
3 talent points in tier2 tree to passively mitigate 10% of 2 classes damage which are very common in arena is G-O-L-D.

Hate to break it to you but the "Trifeca comp" is the new FotM. :P

Having -10% Nature/Frost/Fire damage is extremely valuable. Taking 10% off the most common forms of burst (Shatter combo, NS EM Lightning, even PoM Pyro) is very valuable. It will make the difference between winning or losing.

Anyway, that's an interesting spec. I still value the spell hit and the extra range on totems too much though. Especially Tremor. I would also drop as many points from Anticipation as possible and pick up Guardian Totems and as much Concussion as possible to make up for the extra shock resists. Reasoning being that not being able to dodge while stunned devalues Anticipation enough for me to want the other talents more.

If you're staying on a target, the Storms deck is worth about 3% crit with a 16% crit rate (which is about what a S3 geared Shaman's crit rate will be after resilence). Best thing about it is the help with Shamanisitic Focus to help mana. Very helpful if you get burned or CC/kited during SR. It doesn't help terribly with UR (usually have that up anyway). I think I prefer the Bloodlust Brooch for activated burst

You are right, but currently it's impossible to make a good build with Elemental Warding and Totemic Mastery (Nature's Guidance is completely off, not enough talent points for that) without sacrificing talents in enhancement (Anticipation, Flurry, Mental Quickness). My proposed build is kinda optimized for running the melee zerg team. Tremor range is kinda okay untalented (30 yd), really no point in 40 yards. Choosing between Nature's Guidance and Elemental Warding - I guess it comes down to the specific lineup of the arena team.

Of course it isnt for a resto shaman. Especially now that there is instant GW and improved toughness in the enhance tree.

This is an enhance thread, so we have to decide between elemental offspec and resto offspec. I personally feel that 10% passive mitigation against the 2 classes in 5v5 that are relied upon to burst targets down is pretty damn huge for 3 points. I will be keeping my elemental offspec now that I have played with it more. I love 5 second cooldown shocking for heals, and only miss totem range a little.

More range on tremor is always a good thing. You're often not standing right on top of the when you're feared, and the bigger range means less chance to be feared out of range before it pulses. Not to mention your healers are probably going to be pretty far away, dodging mana burns and the like. Then again, I have a Resto Druid in both my 5v5s.

Though my shaman is just an alt I am very interested in playing the 3melee 5v5 setup with him. Looking at the talents I'm thinking totem range, 3% hit, and the reduced mana cost on heals/totems are the biggest help found in another tree. I am still trying to finalize my 2.4 build. I was all set for this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

However, now I'm thinking I might give up some points in flurry to help out my warrior's dps a bit. I'm thinking I'll get rid of flurry points to get improved windfury totem and overall melee damage: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

1) You always always always want to maximise Weapon Mastery.
2) The extra AP from wf procs isn't as useful as the extra attack. In fact, if you're low on mana, or frequently having to use Grounding Totem, Rank 1 WF totem does the trick.
3) Here's my build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft . I sacrifice 2% hit for 5/5 Toughness/NG/UR/WM.

Tried out the cleave team setup today, did fairly well and gained quite a lot of ground on the team, even with my pve build. Definitely spent quite a bit of time each match stunned and kited though. Eventually I just kept my shield on the entire time until we had the first target down and that really helped on survivability. (Only at 210 resilience)

I think that the ghost wolf change alone would add an interesting change to the dynamic of the spec in 5v5 and paired with the changes to Toughness it should be a decent improvement.

I see some of you guys are getting the talent Tidal Focus (-5% mana cost heal spells) instead of Imp Healing Wave (.5 sec off). Any real reason for this?
That's only 22 mana off of LHW and 36 mana off of HW. You've said it before, leave the healing to the healers, so why would that little bit of mana matter? I see the .5 sec off of HW to be much more useful, even if I almost never use HW. If I'm on a 2v2 with no healer, or if, by chance, my healer dies, the .5 sec matters. I'm not saying let's all go and heal in arena while enhance, but if I can get away from my target, or if the mage ice clocks (in a 2v2), I'll have time to heal, and the heal would help very much.
I'm just curious to know because I see quite a few of good enhance shamans here putting points where they could be used in a better talent (in my opinion).