Rinuu

Well from what I have noticed Ghost Wolf being improved can help out. I know in Battle Grounds I love it. I say this because after getting CCed I can jump into Ghost Wolf after I get out of it and catch back up to them. I would then drop an Earth Bind totem if I'm in range or just Frost Shock them if they are: A) Out of Totem range or B) In/out Totem range but low on health.


I have yet to do arena on my shaman because I'm trying to get some PVP gear from Honor points first before I start. So I would have some what of a better chance at staying alive

But for arena it could be helpful. Hit Ghost Wolf to help you get out of LoS faster or maybe get in range faster of a caster to Earth Shock them. That would be my ideas. But I'm sure people with more experience with PVP could maybe share more input on this question.

Also thanks Push for posting some helpful comments. It really helped me understand a few things about the spec and class. When I get home I'm going to change a few talent points around and see how that works for me. The talent points that I have picked out right now, was formed from just doing some research and guessing really. I didn't do to bad for a starter June 27 2008
(WoW Armory Link)

I think that I may try a 3v3 with my roommates druid and maybe an arms warrior to see how that works out. Could be fun

- Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts with everyone

 

Chibidi

well before viewing this thread completely I had a general assumption that nobody in here knew what they were talking about. However Push through some thoughts out onto the table I hadn't really thought about before. My old shaman spec was something of an experiment and the results were rather fun to watch hitting low resil clothy targets for 15k bursts can be too fun sometimes.

However Push you are right controlled bursts are much more usefull in arena before I was having a hard time sneaking in the correct amount of damage when needed. After checking your spec and reading your notes I took my points out of elemental and putting them into resto I actually improved survivability and my mana isn't a problem anymore either.

Old spec
Pros:
-melee swings will most likely land
-this spec is about hitting hard and unpredictably bursts from this spec can leave anything other then mail and plate wearers face down on the floor after only a couple of hits.
-Quick shocks that crit for double the damage add alot of spell damage to peirce through high armor targets.
-extra range of earthbind totem keeps close range targets in check

Cons:
-shocks are not as likely to land
-without shamanistic rage your easily bursted down
-mana comsumption is a major problem
-when mana is drained your damage becomes nerfed considerably


Current spec
Pros:
-more survivability with shamanistic rage
-relentess assault capability
-controlled bursts
-shocks are more likely to land
-more group buffing
-great spell pushback

Cons:
-top end burst is considerably lower
-melee swings are more likely to miss
-shocks are meant only for utility

 

goddi23a

Hey there, I could need an advice.

I'm one of those bored PvE Enhancers that are looking for the challenge of doing pvp as an enhancement shman.

But curently I need to balancing act between PvP and PvE :|

This is my current Raidspec, and I kinda love it.

And for PvP I use this one.

Thanks to EJ I was able to convince the raidlead that Imp. Weapon Totems are not that powerfull, eventhrough I might be allowed to raid kinda misspecced <3

But some of "my" meeles are crying about 3/5 Unleashed Rage, and as a matter of course about the missing Imp. SoE.




Any advises ?


PS: My pve gear is the common rouge-leather mix and during pvp I'm wearing s4 accessoirs with a mostly s2 set mix - if someone is asking.



PPS: @ topic/Imp Ghostwolf
I've tried to do some pvp back than when we were raiding ssc/tk and became kinda emo that time - But I'm feeling like Imp. Ghostwolf is a real improvment.
Its usefull in a bunch of situations, from chasing some mounted dude using GW/FS/erathbind till I can go meele and kill him or throwing Eearthbind/FS and get away from those nasty whatever CC

 

• Juice

Advice: Respec between PvP and Raids, so you have the appropriate talents while raiding. Your pvp spec is insufficient for a competitive raid environment.

 

otzie689

Numbers are taken from char sheet (damage average) with Torch of the damned vs rising tide + merc cleaver in full my full pvp gear, 360 res, 1450 ap with wf hits

DW if main hand WF procs
564 (mh-ss) + 278 (oh-ss) + 564 (only mh-white is instant) + 661 + 661 (2xwf hits) = 2728 hp

DW if off-hand WF procs
564 (mh-ss) + 278 (oh-ss) + 564 (only mh-white is instant) + 327 + 327 (2xwf hits) = 2060 hp


MH - 564+661+661 = 1866

OH - 278+327+327 = 932


Ok, so the proc chance of windfury is in each hand, say, 20%, on a 3 second cooldown.

So the roll circulation for a white dmg attack and ss for 2 equal speed weapons is:

MH > OH > MH > OH
20% 20% 20% 20%

So only one of these is going to proc in this set amount of time.

Alright so with an 80% chance to proc, the damage for each hit is averaged as

(a MH procs, 40% chance) 564 + 661 +661 +564 + 278 = 2728

(a OH procs, 40% chance) 564+278+327+327+564 = 2060

(no proc, 20% chance) 564+564+278 = 1406

Average dmg = 2196

This number is calculated prior to the hidden cooldown. With the hidden Cd, you have to calculate the lessened chance of each proc. With the hidden cd, it goes as follows

MH > OH > MH > OH
20% 16% 12% 8%

As you can see, only the MH has a pure 20% chance to proc because of the possibility of it being on cooldown. The off hand only has a 24% chance to procc off of both hits. So the global cooldown leaves each successive attack with a lessened chance of proccing, leaving each successive attack a lessened value of damage. Making it less valuable, since WF is pure damage

A friend of mine and I have been theory crafting the value of frostbrand now that deathfrost has been added. I have to run more tests to get a more exact number, but with a 2.6 speed weapon FB procs A LOT. My current numbers are around 30%, but I have to keep adding them up to get rid of the luck factor for a more true percentage. But lets say it has a 20% chance to proc, which is being pessimistic, and until I can get a more true percentage for Df, im going to leave it at 5%.

Ok, in a given SS the hits go as follows.

MH > OH > MH > OH
WF% FB% WF% FB%

Before calculating FB damage, that leaves you with a 36% chance of doing 2728 damage, leaving you with a damage average of roughly 1869 damage which is 300 damage less than with dual WF. But your chance to proc a slowing effect is now:

25% + 25% + 17% (MH WF proc chance added in) and a 16.6% (SS MH WF proc) leaving you with a 83.6% chance to proc a slowing effect on your target when you SS.

Now I’m not saying FB in the off hand is more Viable than DW WF, but it depends on playstyle. If you think you can do more damage by keeping them in range due to the slowing effect, go with FB OH, if you think you need the raw <300-600 extra damage (with S3 weapons, its less considering most don’t have s3) then go for WF. That simple.

Given I’m not a mathematician, or even close, but this is pretty simple math that seems correct. However there are some variables in the true proc chance of each slowing effect, however I do know that FB is higher than I have listed, Or both myself and my 2 friends with shaman alts have extremely lucky procc’s. I apologize for any wrong math, or miscalculations. Hopefully someone a little more gifted in the ways of math can clarify and we can get a better system for determining its viability.

 

◊ Malan

Your understanding of SS procing a WF attack is completely wrong.

 

otzie689

oh? last time i checked WF can procc off of SS, right? did i miss the memo on that?

 

◊ Malan

You missed the memo that if WF does proc off SS its a guaranteed MH proc. Its not a 20% for each hand to proc it from the 2 attacks as you have it labeled above. Which invalidates a lot of what you tried to do up there. (I'm still unable to say for certain what the heck you're trying to prove despite having read your post 3 times)

~Rocks, coming to a shaman near you in the next expansion~

 

otzie689

i'm trying to prove the viability of frost brand now with deathfrost. hence me saying it could use some work in my thread.

 

◊ Malan

Well whatever your trying to prove, your assumptions were incorrect.

~Rocks, coming to a shaman near you in the next expansion~

 

otzie689

however i do know the chance to apply a slowing effect is right. or very close to that. with a 75%+ chance to slow.... i beleive my dps has gone up considering targets are in melee range more often.

 

◊ Malan

I doubt that very seriously. Frostbrand is a PPM effect, estimated at 8-9 PPM. On a 2.6 speed weapon with perma flurry thats less than a 40% observed proc rate. And you're talking PvP where you definitely will not be be perma flurried due to resilience.

~Rocks, coming to a shaman near you in the next expansion~

 

otzie689

it would be 2 off hand hits with ss, and the 4 frost brand with a possibility of WF, wouldnt be that unlikely. dont knock it til youve tried it.

 

◊ Malan

How the hell do you get 2 off hand hits from a storm strike? Seriously, you are trying to calculate this stuff with very flawed assumptions. A+ for effort and for checking into this, but its wrong.

[e] Even if you are counting a WF proc off of every single SS for those "2 off hand hits", you're still not going to have a 75% proc rate. You're making claims with no evidence - if you had at least come with a combat log or a screenshot of Proc Watcher illustrating this it would be more believable.

~Rocks, coming to a shaman near you in the next expansion~

 

otzie689

2x white damage hits (1 of them being your offhand) then 2 stormstrike hits (one of them being your off-hand)....


1+1 =2

 

Taowth

Howso? Do you have more than 10% spell crit in enhance gear? People are getting pumped that ED is now available, but dont realize that it still takes a shock crit, which will only happen in pve, and even then not often. And for PvP, totem range is infinatly more valuable than a little crit after a shock that still wont crit against a geared player. 10 yards radius doesnt sound like alot, but for your group its noticable.



@otzie, the beauty of stormstrike is that it DOES NOT RESET SWING TIMERS. When you SS, the ONLY time you'll get white attacks guarenteed to follow is the very first attack. Everything after that will depend on your swing timers. Hitting SS only gets the instant 2 hits from SS.
And you do realize that Deathfrost only reduces attack/casting speed, NOT movement speed. So Frostbrand's viability gains absolutly nothing from Deathfrost



About the totem choices, i've long been a user of astral winds since I dont want to shock spam expecting a buff that can then get dispelled. Regarding the resiliance totem, i've never bought one, and the only case it'd be useful now that the question has been raised would be against double melee that are on you and not your healer. But since its a totem it can be changed in combat, so now i'm sorta kicking myself for not having bought one or considered it before, you could macro it to change, and while it'll be a GCD like changing shields, the extra resil might help if you're getting trained.


Regarding instant ghost wolf, i've found it extremely useful for arena, yes if you're hamstrung or frostbolted etc the little bit doesnt help, but thats not when you use it, you use it for getting back into the action faster after a fear, switching targets if you're not slowed, gaining that little bit of distance on a mage thats running from you with shock and grounding cd down, chasing down those pesky pillaring lamers who use nameplates to see which way ppl are coming, chasing druids trying to run away in travel form, etc. 1 sec cast would be way too much in all of those situations, making it useless.

 

Taowth

I dont know if you're serious about that pvp spec. Shield spec? I threw up a little when i saw that. For pvp resto is required, you get little to no hit from gear so you need the 3% there, and totem mana cost and range are essential, as totem recasting will drain your already crappy mana pool and that 10 yard radius could be life or death for breaking your healer out of fear with tremcrap totem or grounding to save someone from a CC.

The amount of dmg gained from elemental is terrible for pvp in comparison to the hit in my opinion. Shocks are no more than 15% of my damage in raids, and if that 10% elemental dmg reduction saves you on a consistant basis then your healers are garbage anyways.

Here is my Recommended Spec
The only pve loss you have is 1 out of weapon totems for your group, and mental quickness for your own personal dmg, but as i said shocks are only 15% at most of your output, so the sacrifice you make to have pvp talents is the smallest you can do. I put 1 into healing grace for that 10% anti dispel. You're going to Bloodlust every game, and having that small dispel resist helps. Its not a sure thing obviously, but having 0% is a sure thing of it being gone. When that 10% kicks in, it forces an extra dispel, meaning an extra gcd and extra mana, and it helps. Especially if they dont notice and only tossed 1 dispel thinking it'd go away regardless. That and it helps for water breathing ^.^

I personally go even farther because quite frankly my guild is stagnating in sunwell atm, and we're 1 shotting Brutalis without 2/2 in imp soe and imp wf, so i'm not going to respec every raid for that. I will and do for Mu'ru, but as i said, we're stagnating and not getting many nights on him. So for farm content theres no real need to push every ounce of oomph from my spec, so i stay the spec that i'll use daily for arena.

 

◊ Malan

The guy you are quoting was talking about the leaked changes in WotLK when Spell Crit and Melee Crit ratings will be the same attribute, so the average enchance shaman will have 30% or more crit for both spells and melee.

~Rocks, coming to a shaman near you in the next expansion~

 

Adrammelech

Taowth,

As Malan said I was commenting on the combined ratings for physical/spell and how that would allow for enhancement spells to actually overcome the -10 crit that most people run around with. I personally don't think enhancement is balanced well around the notion of shocks not ever criting.

I agree with you about ED and totem range, the build I'm eying right now is this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not that it would change your mind, but the [Stonebreaker's Totem] is a physical effect and can't be dispelled.

edit: fixed link

 

Jelu

This is a change to crit rating only, not crit in general. Agility still provides a significant amount of an Enh Shaman's crit which won't contribute to their spell crit. Without knowing the specific itemization it's hard to say what the actual ratings will be but I'll be very surprised if an Enh Shaman's spell crit comes close to matching their melee crit with this change. Maybe more like high teens for spell crit and thirties for melee.

 

Adrammelech

How much agility is on your shaman's pvp set?

 

◊ Malan

Think about it guy. If crit rating doubles as spell AND melee crit rating, it will be come more valuable. If crit rating becomes more valuable, then it follows that the gear you will be wearing at lvl 80 will likely have less agility, more crit rating. Obviously if Blizzard fails to make