Arena /ignore function no longer works.

heel · 01/26/08, 6:13 PM

The /ignore function has finally been disabled inside Arenas, so there is no longer an efficient way to determine who your opponents are before a match begins. I have mixed feelings about this - on the one hand, I've enjoyed switching on situational gear (additional armor or mana regeneration or resilience, as appropriate), depending on my opposition. It's also nice to be able to discuss strategy before the match begins. On the other hand, epic shadow resistance was a bit unreasonable. The other side of that, of course, is that teams with two Warlocks on them tend to be a bit unreasonable themselves.

Immediate result of this: drain teams (against which Tier 6 is often very good) are now somewhat stronger. The same goes for any unusual setup that can be mitigated by additional pre-match defense- or offense-stacking. Warlock-heavy teams (against which shadow resistance is very good, obviously) are now substantially better. I would be unsurprised to see resurgences of both Warlock/Warlock/Priest/Paladin/Druid and Shadow Priest/Warlock-based teams in the lower brackets.

Overall, I suppose I am not too pleased with the change. The bottom line for me (in 5s) is that pre-match strategy doesn't exist anymore, my situational armor pieces (and this extends far beyond shadow resistance) are now garbage, and my team is going to have to deal with a hell of a lot more Warlocks. Not so good.

Merrack · 01/26/08, 6:28 PM

I'm glad this was fixed, purely on a consistency level. It was obviously unintended behavior that they fixed when it cropped up in other ways (combat log, etc.).

I think the pre-match strategy and gear adjusting is interesting, and I think it would be interesting to see Blizzard support it. Maybe make the scoreboard accessible before the match starts?

Shadowed · 01/26/08, 6:35 PM

How are you verifying that it was broken heel? Have you been using a mod thats no longer working, or did you specifically try to /ignore <name>-<server> someone that you knew was already in the match.

• Mex · 01/26/08, 6:53 PM

It brought back horrible memories of T3 clad teams steamrolling WSGs back pre-BC. PvE gear shouldn't have a place in PvP imo.

If they wanna start making Vengeful Gladiator's Kodohide Gloves of Shadow Resistance then maybe I'd be more open to "pre-match strategy" (which I'd be more likely to just call cheating), but as it is, arena appeals to me because I can spend ~1-2 hours a week playing and continue to progress. Most weeks I've got time to play more, but an erratic schedule makes raiding impossible for me, so this is a fix that I'm quite happy about.

♦ Praetorian · 01/26/08, 7:16 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowed

How are you verifying that it was broken heel? Have you been using a mod thats no longer working, or did you specifically try to /ignore <name>-<server> someone that you knew was already in the match.

It's definitely fixed. Played a series of matches against the same 5v5 team today and noticed my mod (ArenaIgnore) wasn't picking them up, tried it manually, and again, no dice. I haven't used SR in arena in a long time since I don't really 2v2 currently and that was all I ever used it for, but being able to discuss basic plans in 5v5 for 30 sec before the gates opened was really helpful. Obviously we shouldn't need a loophole or a mod to do it, though.

I hope they fix SR (reduce effectiveness of resists by, say, 1/3 in PvP, so that if you want to wear a full set of BT SR it'll only give you ~120 resist at the expense of completely gimping all your other stats) and formally let us see who we're playing before the gates open.

• sadris · 01/26/08, 7:18 PM

Lame "fix" to sidestep the real issue. You should be able to see who you're playing before the match starts so you can decide on who to attack first or what gear to wear (more +healing, etc) and to let Proximo/AUF create the unit frames while OOC. If their concern is epic SR, then put a cap on PVP-resistances.

EDIT: Now basically it boils down to whoever has more accounts is given the advantage due to level 1 alts and /who. So they really haven't accomplished anything.

heel · 01/26/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mex

It brought back horrible memories of T3 clad teams steamrolling WSGs back pre-BC. PvE gear shouldn't have a place in PvP imo.

What about gear with armor enchants for heavy melee teams? What about more resilience for 4dps teams, and less resilience for traditional teams? At the very, very least, just about everyone at a reasonable leve of interest has the dilemma of whether or not to wear their Battlemaster's trinket. There are always choices.

• Mex · 01/26/08, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by heel

What about gear with armor enchants for heavy melee teams? What about more resilience for 4dps teams, and less resilience for traditional teams? At the very, very least, just about everyone at a reasonable leve of interest has the dilemma of whether or not to wear their Battlemaster's trinket. There are always choices.

What about them?

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

♦ Praetorian · 01/26/08, 8:05 PM

That gear-swapping is much more complex than just "SR cheese" and is, IMO, a positive element to the arena game.

heel · 01/26/08, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mex

What about them?

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

This change is significant even for people who don't have access to difficult-to-get PvE gear. And what Gurg said, too.

Nayt · 01/26/08, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

Lame "fix" to sidestep the real issue. You should be able to see who you're playing before the match starts so you can decide on who to attack first or what gear to wear (more +healing, etc) and to let Proximo/AUF create the unit frames while OOC. If their concern is epic SR, then put a cap on PVP-resistances.

While I think you want to be able to come into arenas with the best preparation you can have, at the same time isn't it nice to have a bit of mystery as to whom you're playing? (I hate playing the same team 3+ times in a row). I thought the idea of having "skill" and "being good" in arenas (and PvP) was the ability to think on the fly and realize what to do in X situation.

• Mex · 01/26/08, 9:12 PM

You can't just ignore shadow res when talking about gear swapping and abusing /ignore. As good as the other parts may or may not be, teams being able to swap in shadow res just ruins the game.

I personally don't see the attraction in being able to see who your opponents are pre-match, and swap gear accordingly. I barely have enough time to farm one set of gear, and that's why arena appeals to me so much.

If Blizzard wants to implement a system where gear can be altered for the duration of the match pre-game, I could live with that. It's the necessity to farm even MORE gear which irks me.

♦ Praetorian · 01/26/08, 9:31 PM

No offense but you really can't comment meaningfully on the issue unless you're playing at a level where the gear is making a substantial difference. Unless your profile is false, you aren't. Who uses SR at 1650? Even if you had full SR and ArenaIgnore, the pool of teams there is so large that you rarely see the same people often enough that it'd be any advantage. If you're a "good" player you should be winning 90%+ of your games at that rating such that losing one or two here or there because of PvE gear or SR swaps is meaningless in the long run. If you're splitting your games 50/50 at that rating, then you have dozens of other things that are more deserving of your thoughts and attention when it comes to improving your play.

Now when you're playing a mirror match at Gladiator ratings, yeah, it makes a difference in many matchups, and I can understand the complaints made by some high-end players, though I ultimately disagree with most of the proposed solutions. When you're playing at 2k+ trying to break into Gladiator range and getting knocked down every time you get close by teams that use SR to shut down your warlock, then yeah, that's a valid concern.

Anyway, I keep making this general point in various forums: A large part of MMO PvP is designing and customizing your character and then matching that product against others' best efforts. If you want to make everyone identical and boil it down to "pure skill" then you're also diluting a lot of what the genre has to offer.

• Mex · 01/26/08, 11:47 PM

Well firstly I don't really agree with your argument. The fact that I haven't been mugged lately doesn't mean that I'm fine with muggers.

Secondly, I only play 2s at the moment. We just missed 1900 before dropping down to whatever we're at now in a horrible week of play. We've had teams use SR against us a few times (it's not common, but that doesn't change much when it's an auto-loss).

Sorry, but I really think you're dodging the issue here. End-game PvE'ers having access to epic resist gear that most of the population won't ever get means that gear swapping has the potential to massively imbalance the game. The extent to which I've been victim to it isn't really that relevant. Nor are any advantages or incentives that seeing your opposition and having the chance to customise your gear may offer.

Sure, it may be nice to be able to customise yourself a little more based on the pre-emptive knowledge of who your opposition is. The problem is that the system wasn't really setup for that. It hadn't been factored into the game's balance. There are countless things that would make the game more fun and more interesting but each one of them makes balance a lot more complex. Gear-swapping is a perfect example -- sure it may be a great innovation that makes the game a lot more interesting and fun, but at the moment the nature of resist gear (both in terms of how hard certain pieces are to get and its effect on casters) means that the current iteration of the mechanic is broken.

If you really think I'm misguided in this, please explain to me why instead of just pointing to my ratings.

Shadowed · 01/27/08, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mex

Well firstly I don't really agree with your argument. The fact that I haven't been mugged lately doesn't mean that I'm fine with muggers.

Secondly, I only play 2s at the moment. We just missed 1900 before dropping down to whatever we're at now in a horrible week of play. We've had teams use SR against us a few times (it's not common, but that doesn't change much when it's an auto-loss).

Sorry, but I really think you're dodging the issue here. End-game PvE'ers having access to epic resist gear that most of the population won't ever get means that gear swapping has the potential to massively imbalance the game. The extent to which I've been victim to it isn't really that relevant. Nor are any advantages or incentives that seeing your opposition and having the chance to customise your gear may offer.

Sure, it may be nice to be able to customise yourself a little more based on the pre-emptive knowledge of who your opposition is. The problem is that the system wasn't really setup for that. It hadn't been factored into the game's balance. There are countless things that would make the game more fun and more interesting but each one of them makes balance a lot more complex. Gear-swapping is a perfect example -- sure it may be a great innovation that makes the game a lot more interesting and fun, but at the moment the nature of resist gear (both in terms of how hard certain pieces are to get and its effect on casters) means that the current iteration of the mechanic is broken.

If you really think I'm misguided in this, please explain to me why instead of just pointing to my ratings.

If your server has BT clearing guilds, I doubt you'd have much issue finding someone willing to sell you HoD's needed to craft the SR it's not going to be cheap but it's not automatically a case where because you don't raid you'll never use epic SR gear.

Rating is relevant because when you're at the top 10-20 spots in your bracket you're playing against a very narrow list of players and class combinations along with more skilled players in general. Just pulling numbers out of BG10 in 2vs2 theres roughly 150 teams that are 2,000+ and 40 teams who are 2,100+, 100 points alone reduces the pool of teams you're going against drastically.