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Old 02/15/08, 10:05 AM   #16
Maynard
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Frostmourne
The range on the vial must be a bug. If blizzard intended it to be self-only, they would've worked that in to the design rather than having a silly 1-yd range mechanic instead.

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Old 02/15/08, 10:33 AM   #17
Talgog
Don Flamenco
 
Human Death Knight
 
Archimonde
Originally Posted by Kaber View Post
Dodge rating is quite useless when you're stunned or being attacked from behind. It would probably only play a role in melee vs. melee fights where you are generally trying to face eachother the entire time rather than run away to get some range. In arena you can't guarantee that you would even face another melee on the opposing team so why would you use a trinket that will be useless against more than half of your competitors?
Not to mention that "increased chance for squishy to dodge warrior when below 35% health" is not exactly a good ability, especially if you are facing a double warrior team. The "best case" scenario for the trinket working against the latter results in you dying instantly to twin Overpowers.

Even against a single warrior, it would probably get you bursted to death from Overpower ---> Execute after the Overpower drops you below 20%. This is not Evasion. Even with the pre-nerf value it is still much more likely than not that a warrior will hit you following the attack that you dodged.

This trinket is not for Arena.

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Old 02/15/08, 10:39 AM   #18
Tower
King Hippo
 
Undead Rogue
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Kaber View Post
Dodge rating is quite useless when you're stunned or being attacked from behind.

This. This is why rogues aren't mitigating a ton of incoming warrior damage, a warrior focusing a rogue will have him hamstring and be doing a lot of runthrough to avoid dodged Mortal Strikes.

Melee users would never use it, rogues would much rather put an offensive trinket on, as will warriors (or something that is more magic defensive like Battlemasters, shield+defensive+plate armor is enough to deter melee damage). It is a complete waste of DKP on a caster, any melee focusing a clothie snares first, dps's later. If you're clothie isn't consistently running away from a melee, putting his back to the assailant and making dodge rating useless but attempting to break melee range, then your player is going to die even faster than they would with 4 t7 trinkets...

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Old 02/15/08, 11:16 AM   #19
Alstor
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Dunemaul (EU)
The Commendation of Kael'thas: i don't see how this will have any impact on any arena bracket. Yes it's 57 stamina, 60 for enlightment priests but the dodge is somewhat useless for most classes.. Ok it might be slightly annoying with that proc + Elune's grace from an NE priest, that's like 40% avoidance right there.. but yes definitly a PvE trinket!

Edit: Thinking this trinket working with the protadin talent where you have damage taken reduced by xx% when you're below Xx% hp, gonna be pertty damn unkillable :P

Timbal's Focusing Crystal: how often will this trinket proc? will the proc have it's damage reduced by resiliences' periodicly damage reduce? hmm i guess not, but still 285 to 475 damage on a proc is not that big of a boost to be honest, ofc dependant on how often the proc is possible...

Vial of the Sunwell: Well if i understood this right the charges fades after 10 secs, that makes this trinket pretty worthless, sure you can spam some low rank heal on yourself when you are oom and then activate the trinket.. but still dosen't seem convincing to me as a PvP trinket.. Someone said it was like desperate prayer for anyone.. please think again you need to charge this 20 times to get a 2000 heal, that's not even compareable to desperate prayer

'Al

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Old 02/17/08, 12:00 PM   #20
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
The 10 second buff on the Vial isn't that bad, you usually will be casting a heal at least every 10 seconds. The current 10 yard range is the problem, but perhaps that is by design.

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Old 02/17/08, 12:44 PM   #21
Alstor
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
The 10 second buff on the Vial isn't that bad, you usually will be casting a heal at least every 10 seconds. The current 10 yard range is the problem, but perhaps that is by design.
in pvp? atleast i dont heal that consistently in pvp, for me this would fade out all the time and be pretty useless.. maybe for a restro druid, or for a paladin or 5v5, but that's all.

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Old 02/18/08, 4:53 AM   #22
xarg
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Tower View Post
This. This is why rogues aren't mitigating a ton of incoming warrior damage, a warrior focusing a rogue will have him hamstring and be doing a lot of runthrough to avoid dodged Mortal Strikes.
You can dodge attacks from behind you. You cannot parry or block but you can still dodge.

You cannot parry dodge or block when stunned.

Dodging mortal strike is a lot more useful than activating the warrior's overpower. A lot of the time a warrior will lose too much rage to bother overpowering anyway, with exceptions such as evasion.

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Old 02/18/08, 5:14 AM   #23
Tojara
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by xarg View Post
You can dodge attacks from behind you. You cannot parry or block but you can still dodge.

You cannot parry dodge or block when stunned.

Dodging mortal strike is a lot more useful than activating the warrior's overpower. A lot of the time a warrior will lose too much rage to bother overpowering anyway, with exceptions such as evasion.
No.

Players cannot dodge from behind period. The easiest way to test this is to have a Rogue use evasion in a duel and attack them from behind for 15 seconds, he won't dodge one attack despite having 80-90% dodge. I have tested this multiple times with people I know that share this common misconception about how dodge works on players. While dodges can happen from behind this is typically a rare occurance in which lag has taken place.

I think the culprit that is clouding the minds of people is the fact the npcs act different. While they share the same common ruleset in regards to parry and block, they are completely different in regards to dodge. NPC's can dodge from behind, while players cannot.

Anyways perhaps some of the other trinkets might possibly change the face of arena to some extent, but this dodge trinkets is defintely not one of them. There are far better trinkets that I can think of that I personally would rather use.

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Old 02/18/08, 8:40 PM   #24
rycho
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
I think that the best trinket from Sunwell for PVP is going to end up being Glimmering Naaru Sliver, 119 passive healing with a use to restore mana is probably better than anything else in that slot for an arena healer.

The DoT trinket from the heroic 5-man is strictly worse than hex shrunken head if it goes live with the internal cooldown, and the 2 minute cooldown combined with the range on Vial of the Sunwell make it unattractive in my opinion, although it could possibly be useful for paladins/shamans during lockouts.

One thing I was wondering is if Vial of the Sunwell procs off of second wind ticks? If so it might be nice for a warrior in the smaller brackets and in duels, I was just curious and haven't seen anything on this.

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Old 02/18/08, 8:52 PM   #25
 Mex
Sour Bear Mojo
 
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Mex
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
I very much doubt that second wind, bandaging ticks, blood craze, nature's guardian, vampiric embrace and other similar effects will proc VotS.

In fact, the description says, "from healing spells you cast". The only thing I could imagine being in question is gift of the naaru.

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Old 02/19/08, 12:07 PM   #26
Mordinm
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Ner'zhul
The healing mace from Illidan will Proc off Nature's Guardian and Earth Shield ticks at least when you place Earth Shield on yourself. While the wording of the tool tip is a bit different I don't think it's unreasonable to expect VotS to proc off similar effects.

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Old 02/20/08, 8:10 AM   #27
Discombobulator
Banned
 
Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Tower View Post
This. This is why rogues aren't mitigating a ton of incoming warrior damage, a warrior focusing a rogue will have him hamstring and be doing a lot of runthrough to avoid dodged Mortal Strikes.

Melee users would never use it, rogues would much rather put an offensive trinket on, as will warriors (or something that is more magic defensive like Battlemasters, shield+defensive+plate armor is enough to deter melee damage). It is a complete waste of DKP on a caster, any melee focusing a clothie snares first, dps's later. If you're clothie isn't consistently running away from a melee, putting his back to the assailant and making dodge rating useless but attempting to break melee range, then your player is going to die even faster than they would with 4 t7 trinkets...
The stacking 440 +AP trinket will be the best thing that happened to rogues in arenas since a while. Couple that with 4/T6 and 4/S3 and you got a serious damage machine in your hands with that trink up almost all the time. IT will get nerfed damn soon after release. I cant really imagine why would anyone use anything different let alone a non offensive trink.

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