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Old 03/01/08, 1:07 PM   #51
Merradin
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Mug'thol
Ok, so love it or hate it, think it ought to be 5v5 s3 t6 whatever. Chances are it's not changing so I feel the more relevant discussion is given the rules(3 characters per account, 3v3 and Item List). What does everyone see as The Winning Comp, Specs, Gear Mix etc. for the tourney.

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Old 03/01/08, 5:36 PM   #52
Kaber
King Hippo
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Merradin View Post
Ok, so love it or hate it, think it ought to be 5v5 s3 t6 whatever. Chances are it's not changing so I feel the more relevant discussion is given the rules(3 characters per account, 3v3 and Item List). What does everyone see as The Winning Comp, Specs, Gear Mix etc. for the tourney.
Since Priest/Mage/Rogue has a massive lead on all other compositions, I expect that we will see mostly that team and some pure counter-comps (I believe someone made mention of Rogue/Rogue/Feral Druid as a possible one). You may see the occasional Warrior/Druid/X, but I think they will be a rarity, especially if the new patch goes in before the tournament.

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Old 03/02/08, 8:18 AM   #53
Fqubed
Soda Popinski
 
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Retired
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account (EU)
I fully expect 2.4.1 (for the first week fixes) to be the patch for the tournament. That said I also expect a decent bit of gear to go into the gear vendor, simply to finish adding things (BS weapons/armor). Regardless of counter-comp teams how effective will a Rogue/R/Feral be versus a war discp/resto/Hpally? If you tailor a specific rock you will find many papers wrap you.

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Old 03/02/08, 5:44 PM   #54
Kaber
King Hippo
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Fqubed View Post
I fully expect 2.4.1 (for the first week fixes) to be the patch for the tournament. That said I also expect a decent bit of gear to go into the gear vendor, simply to finish adding things (BS weapons/armor). Regardless of counter-comp teams how effective will a Rogue/R/Feral be versus a war discp/resto/Hpally? If you tailor a specific rock you will find many papers wrap you.
It is not going to be a standard build that people run, if you watched any of the last few Tournaments people often try to guess what the other team will run, then use some sort of wonky counter-comp (like R/R/FD) for an easy win. Though if they guess wrong it can be a disaster.

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Old 03/03/08, 5:35 AM   #55
Amera
Jedi Knight
 
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Amera
Night Elf Priest
 
No WoW Account
A part of me hopes the tournament makes more plain how ridiculous counter-comping is as a concept by just making it more public. In a perfect scenario they would actually respond to these and make extensive balancing changes for 3v3 if they intend to make it their new publicity bracket.

Some general thoughts on the gear:
PvE Gear: Rogues and holy paladins pretty much use PvE gear, so they probably take the biggest hit from the t5 part.
Melee Scaling: Melee has scaled incredibly well this season given armor penetration and better weapons, thus the huge rise of double melee teams. With S2/T5, those teams might not have as much success.

Depending on shaman changes (not assuming anything is final at this point), my ballpark guess is paladins and shaman will have the poorest showing at the end of the tournament, while PMR and drain teams are mostly the flavor of the tourney. Really, though, without seeing final 2.4 changes it is hard to speculate accurately.

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Old 03/03/08, 11:44 AM   #56
gummy2
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Skullcrusher
Counter comping is arena pvp. If you don't like it than this part of the game isn't meant for you. Counter comping also does not mean an automatic win, it simply gives you a favorable match up advantage. It comes with a disadvantage as well, which is the possibility one might not be proficient in the class he picked just to counter comp as well as gambling that your make up would be a counter and losing the gamble.
Rogue mage priest doesn't have any sort of advantage over any popular comp at the current time (Patch 2.3) The group comp is based on heavy burst damage and control with counter spell/fear/blind. Stop their burst, outlast their cd's and you win. RMP is a labeled incorrectly as an overpowered comp because it capitalizes on mediocore players who cannot counter a burst if their lives depended on it. Yes RMP destroy's paladins. However just about any comp destroy's paladins in 3v3 so this is a moot point.

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Old 03/03/08, 3:55 PM   #57
Amera
Jedi Knight
 
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Amera
Night Elf Priest
 
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RMP teams still hugely dominate the 3v3 ladder at the top end (SK Gaming | World of Warcraft Arena Ranking), so I don't think it is accurate to say they just "exploit bad players." Am I wrong or has Pandemic won every 3v3 tournament with a RMP setup?

Also, I think you kind of miss the point. Yes, counter comping is arena PvP - I just don't think it is a particularly good aspect of it, and I don't think it is unchangeable. A PvP game probably shouldn't give a huge advantage to the side that won the lotto in guessing what their opponent was going to run. I don't see how this is interesting to spectators/video watchers and it certainly isn't good for healthy competition.

In an ideally balanced situation, you could take your composition and run with it against anyone. In a class-based game some advantages are going to be unavoidable, but there is a big different between a "reasonable but unavoidable advantage" and a "massive uphill battle" that is presently the case with many 3v3 setups. I'm hoping the tournament puts pressure on Blizzard to more aggressively balance around 3v3 setups if they in fact want to publicize it.

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Old 03/03/08, 4:45 PM   #58
Yaha
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Archimonde
Tournament Test Server is up, and for the moment it seems players can 2v2 and 5v5 there as well. So far I've seen no word on whether they plan to disable those brackets on the actual Tournament server or not.

I'm having mixed feelings. I love the idea of the tournament server, but six weeks is too short for me to go there with the purpose of meeting other dedicated PvPers and eventually forming a team. For any who are interested, I left a feedback post suggesting that they extend the tournament server timeframe to a few months to give lone players a chance to meet other PvPers and form teams, even if the tournament itself is done faster. (WoW Forums -> [Feedback] Tournament Timeframe )

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Old 03/04/08, 7:36 AM   #59
woeye
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Amera View Post
In an ideally balanced situation, you could take your composition and run with it against anyone. In a class-based game some advantages are going to be unavoidable, but there is a big different between a "reasonable but unavoidable advantage" and a "massive uphill battle" that is presently the case with many 3v3 setups. I'm hoping the tournament puts pressure on Blizzard to more aggressively balance around 3v3 setups if they in fact want to publicize it.
From a software developer's perspective I'd say that Blizzard needs a much better testing approach. In order to tune a class you either need to know all in and outs of the class yourself _or_ you need someone who has this kind of knowledge. Personally I doubt that Blizzard's developer have enough time to play high ranked competitive PvP. Therefore I doubt that their developers really do understand the class issues. But there are a lot of high ranked players out there. Why not invite at least 5 high ranked players of each class to the PTR? Then let them play against each other in various combinations and talk to the players afterwards what they think about the changes. Also it should be possible to monitor/record the matches for an analysis.

I am pretty sure it is very possible to improve class balancing. This, however, requires a lot of testing and a very solid communication between the pro gamers and the developers. The question is, however, does Blizzard really want to invest money into this process? Do they really want to improve/change things? If I look at all those last-minute hacks from Blizzard I feel that they are not as focused or concentrated on this game as they should be ...

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