To preface: I'm well aware that any heavy destruction spec will not be optimal in arenas. It seems to be that anything without Soul Link doesn't offer the defensive capabilities necessary to really be effective, or even live long enough to make your presence felt.

That said, I've recently started playing and pvping again after a several month break and there's really only one spec that I enjoy in PvP: destruction. It feels like playing a destruction warlock is viewed the same as playing an enhancement shaman was about 6 months ago, you either got a pat on the head and a 'bless your heart for trying' or a kick in the junk and a 'Rofl nub go spec something useful like Ele' (or in this case, SL/SL).

What I'm interested in and hoping to find in this thread are destruction success stories, thoughts and musings, and/or 'L2P' discussion. I really want to know what other think about destruction and how to find success with the destruction playstayle, what has worked and will work, and personal philosophies behind the spec. In other words, I want information. There seems to be a dearth of info on destruction in arenas and while I'm afraid a large portion of that may be from its lack of viability, I'm hoping that it's something people just haven't had a single place to share their thoughts on it.



Starting off, I'm curious what people's thoughts are regarding gemming/enchanting/gearing when starting out in arenas. Gem offensively and pray you get the burst you want before you die or gem defensively and soak more damage so that you can put out more damage in the long run without the burst? My gear at the moment is severely lacking resil(only 280 atm), stam (imo) and +dmg and as a result I find myself facing the decision of adding more steady talasites vs trying out glowing nightseyes. I've plenty more honor to grind for rings and trinkets, which will help all three areas significantly, but in the mean time I'm curious what route I should take. Personally, I feel like anything less than 11k hp and 300 resil makes me too damn squishy, but I hate nerfing my offensive stats.

I've plenty more I'd like to talk about, but I'll leave that for later in the hopes that this thread develops and takes off.

Destro is very good if you are in a 5v5 team that has a more attractive train target than yourself. Shadow Priests for example.

A lock without soul link is a much more attractive target

I've seen destro locks with a druid in 2v2 quite high rated. Think it was Dreamstate druid, too. Any 4dps 5v5 with a paladin or shaman healer is viable for destro.

I played a few variations on destro a couple months ago with a partner who alternated between his disc priest and hunter (who was either marks/BM/ or some off survival spec). My best success was with his priest; keep in mind this isn't saying a lot. My stats at that time for pvp were even worse than yours, but I had a lot of fun, and with some practice was even able to live for a while. Our biggest problem was the vast amount of S3 people we would hit when breaking clear of even the low 1500's which would innevitabley push us back down under 1500. I've also tried affliction (deep raiding build; my current) and SL/SL. While SL/SL works well to outlast people it provides no burst damage, and with the priest I'd live a lot longer but we had a harder time in those critical burn down moments. I'm no expert at pvp so take it for what its worth. All in all though, I'm still pushing the honor grind and raiding and am looking forward to going back to destro (alternate builds mind you) for both. I'm also drooling over the thought of a tier 3 soul link in WoTLK if that survives beta. But yeah, if you can make it work go for it, nothings more fun than burning down a self righteous rogue trying to stealth up on you while you keep his healer feared/spell locked.

some final thoughts

-the succubus is a gamble but it can have some great results; i'd almost always opt for fel hunter though..
-if you go desto, go deep, but focus on shadow or fire so you can max your points elsewhere (shadowfury is amazing for quick interupts)
-Keep netherprot

Take a look at this video Heidiheinken - Highest Destrolock By mofogie , it's the main "destro arena success story" I remember seeing. The movie description also has a link to a movie from his paladin's perspective healing that same setup. Needless to say, he takes an utter ton of damage, and the footage is from the end of season2, before armor pen and the melee train setups that magnetize to any warlocks really started showing up yet.

Not to mention Mortal Striked, Hemorrhaged, Stormstruck...

A build like this could help with survivability against one or two melee classes if you can get a corruption or two off for a lot of instant shadow bolts from back and nightfall. I've never used this build personally, but if you get two corruptions off and have a melee class on you, it seems you'd be just firing the shadow bolts off.

I'd seen Heidi's video, but catching the teammate's was quite interesting. The commentary was particularly helpful and gave good insight. I recently regemmed to fit in more steady talasites and coupled with finally getting the 2min trinket has really helped my survivability, which has lead to more successes. I've found that being able to tank the damage and effectively use backlash procs has made a difference.

Philberr-- I've used a similar build (23/4/34, iirc) and it was indeed a lot of fun to toss up an immolate, a few corruptions, start DL and wait for procs to happen. I found that I really appreciate shadowfury a lot more when I don't have it, though. Even though it's a mana hog, I feel like the ability to interrupt casts and control melee makes shadowfury pretty important.

Amera-- The scaling of physical DPS is a pretty significant problem for any pvp that I try to do. Beating a good warrior or rogue is largely a matter of them making several errors and me getting lucky as hell. Rogues in particular can drop me in no time. I've thought about having a PI/PS Disc priest for a 2s/3s partner after seeing Drakedog run with one on a WCM stream once. I figure that PI's new haste effect would really boost my output and with PS I should be able to outlast any initial burst dangers.

Honestly, there's nothing terribly wrong with Shadowfury since it's AoE and stun. It makes for a decent PvP tool. The problem is that Destro is so horribly wrong for PvP and that trying to force it is typically failfodder. Sure if you practice for a year and a half you can make it to the 1850 mark, but there's simply no survivability whatsoever. You'll rely mostly on players that don't know PvP very well to boost you to victory, since any knowledgeable team that sees a Warlock without Soul Link will immediately gib said Warlock. Whereas Affliction Warlocks have instant DoTs, Siphon Life, and Howl of Terror to claw for breathing room, you have nothing.

As a Destruction Warlock, I can say that attempting to PvP as Destruction is mostly pointless. You will sacrifice many wins to inferior players because of your spec. Fun? That's all that's left.

Hi all,

My sincere apologies for posting a question on a somewhat irrelevant topic. I'm new to this forum and decided to register as it seemed filled with some pretty interesting conversations about various issues.

I have tried searching here - and everywhere - basically; for any specific thoughts on a particular Warlock talent build. Throughout my leveling to 70, I used full Affliction with random points in Demonology and Destruction. I started to really enjoy key talents, such as: Instant Howl of Terror, Shadowburn and Improved Shadowbolt/Bane, etc.

Upon leveling to 70, I've realized how much I enjoy these talents and would have a tough time giving them up as I plan to start entering Arena's. The build I am proposing for analysis is: 37/13/11.

It would have 25% dispell protection, Instant Howl of Terror and Dark Pact. It's lacking UA, however, I often find I rarely have the time to cast all my DoT's as it is, so I don't see how losing this one will affect me tremendously. Unless I'm facing a class with a healer, of course. My main issue, has to been to get some sort of synergy out of all these talents and I feel like it's a good spec, but I'd love some feedback on it from people who are a bit more experienced than myself.

To reiterate, the key talent points would be: iHoT, DP, Demonic Aegis (2/3), Fel Domination (1/1), Improved Shadowbolt, Bane and Shadowburn.

(My apologies for posting on an unrelated topic, but I am unable to create my own Thread to discuss this.)

Thanks for your input guys, I really appreciate it.

I'll have to check that out, thanks for the heads up.

Just going off of what is listed (and already outdated) here, I'm thinking a 0/17/54 spec with SL and Fel Domination will finally offer up the survivability we need to get the job done. I'm VERY eager for some more info and the start of beta.

Since my first post, I've managed to increase my HP by a few hundred points and tack on another 40-50 resilience, both of which have made a tremendous difference in arena and BGs. My crit has suffered by about 1.5%, but the tradeoff has been outrageous. I'm trying to decide what my next purchase will be w/ honor, either S1 wand or S1 staff. Basically deciding between quick, small payoff vs long, bigger. Also deciding whether to start purchasing big-ticket arena items (helm, chest, legs) first or get the gloves first and then go big-cost. Your thoughts?

Since S4 will probably be out in five or six weeks, it's probably a better idea to buy the head, chest, and legs, whose S4 counterparts will have rating requirements (which a starting Destro 'Lock may not meet for a while). Hands have no rating requirement, so you can buy the S4 hands when S4 comes out.

- - -

One thing I have seen raid spec Destro 'Locks do is to risk running with a Succubus and keep it a good distance away from the Warlock. Being the only target in the Arena more magnetic than the Destro 'Lock, the Succubus can buy the Destro 'Lock the distance needed to burn a chunk off somebody if positioned correctly and supported by CC. Anticipate when your Succubus will be running out of time and use Demonic Sacrifice to push for a burst while the melees run back to you.

Not to mention the two powerful buffs to Shadowfury (being able to cast on the move and a three second stun). Really looking forward to Wrath for almost this reason alone, it's impossible to predict the future but it would be nice if Warlocks had a bit more choices than SL/SL maximum control.

I had some decent results back in S1 with a rogue. It was a fuck around team until my priest was done with some rl stuff, and we only took it to about 1800 so take this how you will.

I found that between sap, fear, blind, and the rogue cs ksing the dps target, I could get a decent amount of casts in. It truly is kill or be killed, the use of CC is clutch. Effectively timed CC with a DC + incin + sburn + conflag will get you those kills, just be prepared to lose games to inferior opponents when you don't pull everything off.

Haha, I was going to link that. It's really a terrific video and what got me going destruction on my lock again.

The others have more or less covered it. Destruction for me seems to be very up-and-down. There are some fights that I will just absolutely destroy the other guy, and there are some where I'll put out next to nothing. This is primarily due to gear at this point, as my lock is very undergeared survivability-wise thus far, but it is very satisfying when it gets rolling.

I currently 2v2 with my brother's Ret Paladin, mainly for points, and while a rogue would be far more useful, we do alright. We've got terrific burst potential, so with some creative fears and a good BoP timing, we're hanging in the 1500's with me at 200res and him at... 150ish?

I would argue that while it's not as bullet-proof as SL/SL, it's certainly more fun, games in arena are always short and intense, and can be just as viable with the right partner and a bit of practice. (Look at Vaelisious, they tear apart all sorts of teams.)

In BG's, depending on which one I do and how much people gun for me, I've been everywhere from the bottom third to top in AV in both KB's and damage. It really just depends.

That's the old half-cast meta gem, and not the current short duration haste bonus version on live. I'd stick with the CSD for helping punch through resilience.

Well i've been doing some research. and i've come to find if your looking to survive as destro. 0/17/44 is also nice.
ive come to like the 50+ destro builds as well. drakedog and memento have displayed those builds well.

Urgh...nothing was more frustrating than the removal of Detect Magic and being able to see all of your target's buffs. Closest I've got to be successful is 0/31/30, which isn't even Destruction without Conflag or Shadowfury. Its just an Incinerate spamming SL/SL build.

Have you guys noticed the JAC 5v5 comp? That uses a UA lock/Spriest/Mage/Rogue/RShaman comp, perhaps replacing the UA lock with Destro would work?

P.S. Bibdy, I enjoyed your Everday Combat pvp vid very much. :]

I doubt that would be anywhere near as effective. The UA lock is easily the most attractive target in the group. The advantage of UA is that he can get dots off and be effective while being focused, where a destro lock has to stand still and cast uninterrupted.

I think the best bet is to go 5/41/15, or some variation thereabouts. It's a shadow bolt spamming build with built-in survivability.

I played with a spriest and Destro lock in 3vs. It was really fun. The burst was amazing. But our team died due to the lack of crit gear on the lock. But I definatly can recommend the setup.