Wotlk - Best arena classes? - Page 4

Searix · 07/26/08, 4:08 PM

People from my guild in beta are saying that Death Knights wont be allowed to arena in wrath (like 90% sure), anyone have info one way or the other?

Calantus · 07/26/08, 9:04 PM

That was a very old rumor, disregard.

khel · 07/31/08, 7:19 AM

Right now the biggest problems with hunters are that our dps is pathetic while under fire, our pets die very easily, and we don't have many options to escape pressure. We either spec TBW and lose the ability to help our teammates when they need it (can't reliably trap without scatter in arena), or we spec a more classic MM build and rely on our teammates to help us gain distance from melee. Pets die very easily vs skilled opponents.

Well now we will have a few options. TBW+scatter looks very strong against melee teams, and between Master's Call, Scatter+Trap, and Intimidation, we have a number of good options for assisting our teammates. Classic MM gains a lot of utility with Chimera Shot and the new deterrance seems godly. Pet survivability is rumored to be getting improved through some sort of resilience scaling, which fixes another big problem. The unlinking of steadyshot with autoshot though and giving pushback resistance really helps dps while under fire also (or just taking peripheral damage from pets etc).

I expect pets to be MORE useful in dynamic arenas than before (after the inevitable pathing issues get fixed) simply because they aren't as easy to LOS+confuse+escape as human players, but we will probably still have to deal with typical LOS issues.

Kindbud · 07/31/08, 1:07 PM

It bothers me that Blizzard creates a counter class for a current class in an expansion thats months away, and has allowed this absurd imbalance of game play for so long in current WoW. It is game breaking in BG's and not just WSG or Arena's. I've seen 5-6 players focus firing a Restoration Druid and him surviving and out running everyone while keeping the players around him up. Its just amazing sometimes how imbalanced some PvP classes are. I also do not understand why Rogues were almost hot fix nerfed with hemo due to complaints or the perception they are overpowered, while Restoration Druids continue to maintain healer dominance and extremely overpowered healing capabilities and survival. I just cannot make much sense of Blizzard's approach to balancing WoW in the least.

I also question the whole idea of having 1 Hero Class, then as the single hard counter to an overpowered mechanic(HoT's). I truly hate how everything is so cookie cutter A beats B, C beats D, and if you dont have C to beat D, you need 4-5 others to do it :P Is 1:1 balance too much to ask for? Just so much more practical sense in that than needing to have the right class to beat another if both sides are close to even.

Karoo · 07/31/08, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kindbud

It bothers me that Blizzard creates a counter class for a current class in an expansion thats months away, and has allowed this absurd imbalance of game play for so long in current WoW. It is game breaking in BG's and not just WSG or Arena's. I've seen 5-6 players focus firing a Restoration Druid and him surviving and out running everyone while keeping the players around him up. Its just amazing sometimes how imbalanced some PvP classes are.

Was the druid in question in s3+ gear and the players focus firing him in blue pvp gear? Resto druids aren't THAT powerful. A druid cannot survive 5-6 equally skilled, equally geared players without help and he certainly can't keep himself and his teammates alive while doing so.

What happens in BG's is far from a telltale sign of who is or isn't overpowered. There are a lot of very undergeared people in BG's.

Brinas · 07/31/08, 3:00 PM

There's a big difference between a dps class being OP and a survivability class being OP. The rogue can tear through people constantly, the druid just can't die as easily. It's no different than back in vanilla wow when paladins were impossible to kill.

When someone does OP damage, you end up in the GY. When someone is impossible to kill, you ignore/cc them and focus on everyone else. I can't tell you how many times, back in the day, that I'd have a paladin attacking me, and I'd basically ignore him and kill everyone else, as a shadow priest no less.

Like the other poster said, druids can't run away, heal themselves, and heal their friends all at once while taking heavy damage. The good ones just know when to do one of the three, and transition well if necessary.

Kindbud · 07/31/08, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Karoo

Was the druid in question in s3+ gear and the players focus firing him in blue pvp gear? Resto druids aren't THAT powerful. A druid cannot survive 5-6 equally skilled, equally geared players without help and he certainly can't keep himself and his teammates alive while doing so.

What happens in BG's is far from a telltale sign of who is or isn't overpowered. There are a lot of very under geared people in BG's.

He may have been in S4 equipment but what many people discount is the fact that most melee cannot maintain DPS with a restoration druid and sprint runs out or isn't always up. Shadowstep only lasts 4 seconds. Even casters only get limited DPS opportunity before the Druid will run out of range and come back in stealth after he goes out of combat. Yes Priests, even Pally's in S4 can be difficult as well, but the huge difference is they are not mobile and everyone can maintain their DPS on these classes nonstop after PS or bubble wears out. The Druid can naturally run at a faster pace and in a form that mitigates damage significantly while hot'ing themself with quick caster switches, then cyclone/root, and then theres feral charge that gives even more out of range room. I've seen this time and again in BG's to the point that its really ridiculous, especially of late, and i can only assume that is S4 equipment in effect making them even worse than prior to this season.

I have never seen a class survive that type of focus fire since release, nor a class with this type of survivability since release, and its become more and more common. WSG games take forever because of this. AB and EOTS skirmishes are absurd sometimes with these Restoration Druids. It may be that Druids are getting S4 equipment faster due to ease of ratings so there are more with that equipment gap to the masses, and tend to dominate in these venues where players aren't capable of outputting the DPS to take them down. But come on, rogues were never close to this game breaking and ruining the competitive enjoyment of these instances, while having a healer that is practically unkillable without 4-5 player coordination is game breaking absurdity.

The first few times i passed it off as poorly geared vs S4 Overpowered Druid. Now its to the point that i can't call it few and far between, because it is way more common than seeing any other healer coming remotely close to that dominating. I just do not understand the double standards Blizzard plays for some classes, but are so quick to nerf others at the sign of being overpowered.

I'm in mostly S1/S2 btw, and i'd assume most BG players are these days at the very least. I emphasize however no other healing class is this consistantly nor as impossible to kill as restoration druids, especially of late

Kindbud · 07/31/08, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Brinas

There's a big difference between a dps class being OP and a survivability class being OP. The rogue can tear through people constantly, the druid just can't die as easily. It's no different than back in vanilla wow when paladins were impossible to kill.

When someone does OP damage, you end up in the GY. When someone is impossible to kill, you ignore/cc them and focus on everyone else. I can't tell you how many times, back in the day, that I'd have a paladin attacking me, and I'd basically ignore him and kill everyone else, as a shadow priest no less.

Like the other poster said, druids can't run away, heal themselves, and heal their friends all at once while taking heavy damage. The good ones just know when to do one of the three, and transition well if necessary.

No you have it backwards, and so do most WoW players who say this. A unstoppable healer is just that - unstoppable. He keeps himself alive indefinitely while keeping others alive. An unstoppable DPS will die eventually once he has no heals. Every DPS class eventually dies because they cannot maintain health/mana by themself.

There are so many myths with restoration druids. They do not run OOM easily. They can HoT indefinitely even when their mana bar is close to 0. They do not go OOM easily by forcing them to shift. They do not die easily in caster form, only poorly geared, no resilience ones do(most have at least 11k-12k in caster form). But the most powerful aspect of them is that they aren't prone to snares and roots like every other class, who can/are slowed in multi PvP, and it gives them easy out of ranging even if half the players on the other side are trying to kill them. It is laughable what mages can do against them since hots/resilience/bear form cancel out nuke damage keeping them at full. I also have a rogue and they are by far the hardest healer, or any class for that matter for me to take down.

I am just really tired of this. I play casually. When i login and want some PvP i'll do some BG's. Every class is tolerable, but restoration druids make me want to just stand there and give up even trying. I have a feeling its only going to get worse as more acquire S4 gear and there is more a concentration of them having equipment much better than the masses. I don't think there is anything worse or more game breaking in a competitive venue than a healer that cannot be killed. It turns everything into an impossible to win stalemate dragging on forever a la WSG, or loss if you dont have another restoration druid on your side. MS warrior is the only class that are regularly capable, too bad it's more a spec within a class.

Lord BEEF · 07/31/08, 4:30 PM

They can't really nerf druids before the expansion without hitting the core mechanics pretty hard which would be a very unfun way to do things (like a cooldown on shapeshifting or something similar).

They're going to continue to be a pain in season four though.

• Snowy · 07/31/08, 4:34 PM

This thread mostly sucks, and instead of issuing random infractions I'm just going to close it.