I am rerolling Horde from my Draenei shaman (Gladiator s1/s2/s3). I've already taken a Tauren to the mid-30's but I'm having second thoughts. It was a tough choice between Tauren and Orc. The spec I'm leaning towards is Elemental, but I'm not ruling out Enhancement.
The reason for my doubt as of late is the fact that the devs are changing stun resistance into stun duration reduction in WLK. Warstomp is short enough as it is, but with 4 classes getting 30% stun reduction (warrior, priest, paladin plus one spec of druid) it will be reduced to below 1.5 seconds which isn't even enough to cast Lesser Healing Wave, Hex or Chain Lightning before the enemy is free to interrupt.
As Tauren only barely "won" for me, due to the versatility of an extra interrupt and free cast (especially the new Hex), this seems to sway the advantage to Orcs. Their axe expertise is useful if I ever go Enhancement. But there are some questions:
Will Hardiness be converted into 30% stun duration reduction just like the talents that were previously 15% resistance? And will it stack with the 15% reduction meta? Does it currently stack with the 5% resist meta?
Can anyone confirm from the beta that Blood Fury still removes Wound Poison? All these questions may seem petty but their answers will determine the best choice of race for serious shaman PvP. Orc is right up there with Tauren and if Warstomp will no longer enable guaranteed 1.5s casts, Orc will pull ahead.
Then again, if Warstomp can still guarantee 1.5s casts, perhaps with some spell haste to compensate, you're left with zero of the resists that happen currently...for the price of no longer being able to get off a Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst or Chain Lightning if you don't have Lightning Mastery.
Even if the stun duration was only .1 seconds, it's still an interrupt in between earth shocks. Since we can't really predict the metagame with any accuracy at this point, I'd just go with your gut on this one based on your own experiences.
True. My concern, though, is that the duration won't be enough to prevent the target from interrupting a 1.5s cast just before it goes off. Sure, there's lag, but that goes for me as well when starting my cast right as the Warstomp GCD is ending.
You're right in that it's hard to know at this point.
I am thinking more orc or troll for PvP, it would really matter what spec. Orcs can increase there mele damage useing bloodrage but trolls can decrease thier cast speed. So I would think that troll for ele, and orc for enhance.
Probably tauren still, Warstomp, has multiple uses. First it's an AE, so if for some reason 2people are next to each other, you get a "free" stun. With lag, even with 30% reduction, you should still be able to get a 1.5s cast off. You warstomp, then you get lag until the target is stunned, then as you're about to finish casting, the guy gets lag until his ability fires. At best he'll pummel at the end of your cast, getting an Interupted! message but still not interupting it. It's also useful to interupt heals and stuff like that, especially if you get CSed during a lighting.
So imo warstomp will still be just as good as now, so if you think tauren is better atm, then tauren will be better in wotlk.
It might be worthwhile to consider the fact that haste rating will, probably, be more prevalent on items. In TBC it took a few content patches before we saw some haste rating. I can't tell you if there will be much of it on pvp gear, but I've seen it on blue quest rewards and blacksmithing items for example. So while others get stun reduction, your casts might be a few points shorter as well.
Will Hardiness be converted into 30% stun duration reduction just like the talents that were previously 15% resistance? And will it stack with the 15% reduction meta? Does it currently stack with the 5% resist meta?
While they turned MOST 15% chance to resist stun talents into 30% stun reduction talents, things that were in as old school stun resistance talents seemed to stay that way. (Tier 1 priest discipline talent still allows for 15% stun resist for example, it was only the BC / WOTLK stun talents that seemed to get changed to 30% duration), so you can probably figure that orcs will kep the 15% stun resistance.
Another thing to consider is that warstomp is still 1.4 sec of casting during a stun with the 30% reduction talents. A combination of latency / spell haste that will probably be on gear at 80 means that you can still probably guarantee that your 1.5 sec will go off.
Troll shamans also get 15% snare/root reduction in 3.0, something to think about.
Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.
Earth shock -> cowstomp -> earth shock is an amazing lockout and has won me many games. Especially as enhancement where you're required to be sitting on top of your target, it comes in handy extremely often. I'm of the opinion that this would win you more games than other racials. The extra health also comes in handy.
Earth shock -> cowstomp -> earth shock is an amazing lockout and has won me many games. Especially as enhancement where you're required to be sitting on top of your target, it comes in handy extremely often. I'm of the opinion that this would win you more games than other racials. The extra health also comes in handy.
It's not just the lockout, but the ability to kite. Say a warrior's on you, afflicted by Earthbind (as Frost Shock is cost-prohibitive, likely), and you are afflicted by Hamstring. A warstomp lets you get around a pole and potentially saves you many, many seconds of taking damage. Go wtih Tauren.
It's not just the lockout, but the ability to kite. Say a warrior's on you, afflicted by Earthbind (as Frost Shock is cost-prohibitive, likely), and you are afflicted by Hamstring. A warstomp lets you get around a pole and potentially saves you many, many seconds of taking damage. Go wtih Tauren.
Note that Tauren are physically larger(they have a bigger hit box), and thus are easier to hit when running around poles and such. This counteracts your suggested advantage, and mostly turns out to be a negative overall effect in comparison to the kiting strength of other races.
Probably tauren still, Warstomp, has multiple uses. First it's an AE, so if for some reason 2people are next to each other, you get a "free" stun. With lag, even with 30% reduction, you should still be able to get a 1.5s cast off. You warstomp, then you get lag until the target is stunned, then as you're about to finish casting, the guy gets lag until his ability fires. At best he'll pummel at the end of your cast, getting an Interupted! message but still not interupting it. It's also useful to interupt heals and stuff like that, especially if you get CSed during a lighting.
Note that the interaction of lag and Warstomp can hurt the stomper as well. Two recent examples while mashing my Warstomp->Cyclone macro:
* Warstomp a Warrior beating on me. Warrior gains stunned animation, Cyclone cast bar starts filling. Cyclone cast bar stops. >Mace Stun< flashes on my screen.
* Rogue Cheap Shots. I spam Stomp-> Cyclone macro. Cheap Shot fades, I stomp, Rogue gains stunned animation. I then gain Kidney Shot before the Cyclone cast even begins.
Still a good skill, but there's something to be said for abilities you can rely on all the time. Warstomp is certainly not that.
Regarding Blood Fury dropping Wound Poison: I believe it still does, but note that Wound Poison is a single-stack 50% application now, so it no longer serves as a 5-stack cover anyway. It might prevent the Rogue Talent Deadly Brew from proccing Crippling poison off a Wound application.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that rather than shrinking the tauren hitbox to conform to every other race's hitbox, they've increased the hitbox of all other characters to match the tauren. I'm personally fine with that; now everyone can share in the joy of dpsing from further away than whirlwinds and warstomps hit, it just seems like the opposite of the change I would have expected.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that rather than shrinking the tauren hitbox to conform to every other race's hitbox, they've increased the hitbox of all other characters to match the tauren. I'm personally fine with that; now everyone can share in the joy of dpsing from further away than whirlwinds and warstomps hit, it just seems like the opposite of the change I would have expected.
My tauren on beta can stand closer to enemies then on live. So maybe they normalized hitboxes. Made tauren smaller and others bit bigger? but i think they just made tauren hitboxes smaller. Awesome change for tauren hunters.
Regarding Tauren hitboxes, did they reduce the hitbox of people trying to hit the tauren?
I remember on live hearing a tauren friend complain that he was easier to hit around pillars because apparently his tauren presented a larger hitbox to enemies than the hitbox presented by smaller races.
My tauren on beta can stand closer to enemies then on live. So maybe they normalized hitboxes. Made tauren smaller and others bit bigger? but i think they just made tauren hitboxes smaller. Awesome change for tauren hunters.
That would be an awesome change for druids too, I get hit too often by other Tauren warriors clear through a pillar thanks to a few hundred ms of lag. Good to know!
I hope the Tauren hitbox was reduced. Since making this thread I've already levelled my Tauren shaman to 70. Warstomp is nice but as Elemental, the big hitbox makes it nearly impossible to escape from rogues before they can apply Crippling Poison again. Ironically only Warstomp enables an escape.
As for Blood Fury, it no longer triggers the self-MS effect. Thus it won't remove Wound Poison anymore, but I assume every Orc gladly accepts that trade.
08/11/08, 10:43 AM
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