• frmorrison

Shadow of Death doesn't work in Arenas, and it has a 15 minute cooldown.


It does take one GCD to dispel frost fever and chilblains (as a Pally).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Lanky

My point was more that you are instantly slowed by it, and IT also does a great amount of damage, as Kroot mentioned. Eventually the Paladin needs to use additional GCD's to heal, Holy Shock and instant flashes alone won't keep up with IT spam /snare plus attacks as they come.

 

Caesura

Seems to be quite a stir about blood in the arena lately. Has anyone taken a comprehensive look at ARP vs. STR for gem stacking within blood? My initial pass on it (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...a8SXzUCg&hl=en) seems to indicate that your per-hit-potency will be more greatly benefited by ARP once you exceed 358 total weapon damage (trivial). I'm curious enough about this to extend the above sheet and calculate an accurate 36s DRW burst window but if someone has already done so I'd just as happily sniff at their numbers.

 

• Lanky

No guarantees DRW will stick on the target, since there are no guarentees that you will either. Amazing burst though, if you can stay in melee range. I'd like to know exactly where this 'stir' is getting generated. I still find Blood Knights far easier to deal with than frost or the Unholy mirror.

 

Jazai

I think the big thing right now is that Heart Strike Cleave Spam. That, plus DRW makes for some super nasty-ness against any Double melee team. Other than that... I agree with you Mr. Lankey. I find Blood to have a higher lack of Utility than Frost or Unholy. But I Could see a Blood Knight really rock out with say... a Rogue or MS Warrior in 2s.

 

Caesura

The AJ forums are the largest source of it. Rankings there show a 12% increase in blood DK's above 1800. I gave the spec a shot and it's very swingy (winning or losing by a large margin every time) but there is certainly merit to 36 second DRW bursts. Not sure I'll stay blood for long but I do believe the buzz is completely valid.

Amusing example: I ran into Dru/Mut in 2's last night and popped DRW on the druid only to be immediately peeled by the rogue. I target swapped and after about 15 seconds of beating on the rog I look back and my DRW had solo'd the Druid (Note: The 1s rune refreshes from misses still trigger hits from your DRW. The rogues evasion basically turned my floaty bits into a blender).

EDIT: Anyone have any input on the ARP vs. STR stacking?

 

Foxx2405

I'm very interested how the Blood Boil is going to play out. Especially with the glyph in consideration.

With Blood Boil no longer requiring any diseases, you basically now get a 30y radius AoE snare that slows for 50%. That is insanely powerful.
That leaves all FU runes free for nukes.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were going to nerf this though.

 

• Lanky

They can just change the glyph to add a condition: "If your target is diseased, Bloodboil also snares them for 50% for 5s"
Then it would function exactly like it does now in PvP.

 

hip

Which is also what makes it mediocre. To apply one disease, you'll have to be in melee range for a plague strike (if not, why would you not be using chains), to make the blood boil do the aoe slow, you have to pestilience that disease (and hope that people are nearby), and then you have to actually cast the blood boil. Thats a total of 3 runes and 3 gcds for an AoE slow that lasts for 5 seconds (and can be reapplied over the next ~10 seconds depending on your talents). If it wasnt for the fact that it is undispellable it would be useless.

I too think they're going to nerf it in some way or another, I'd personally rather see it be worded "causes your target and all enemies within 10 yards of your target's blood to boil .....", ie reducing the aoe range by 20 yards but still giving us a targeted piercing howl, which would be quite an elegant tool, especially for using blood runes as frost/unholy.

 

• Lanky

That would still be a 30 yard range Hamstring. There is no way in hell they will do that. Shadowfrost builds love to use IT to apply FF and to push damage pressure on healers. The next logical step is to BB them for the snare. I don't even pvp with the Deadly gloves that I own when I am Shadowfrost, I just use 4 Piece Valorous for higher RP generation from SS, and for additional AP, Crit, Hit. If BB is usable without diseases and still applies the snare, regardless of AOE radius, it will be too good.

 

hip

Ah I forgot about that spec, you are right in that respect.

 

Aeronx

Well, I've been doing too much arenas lately, and Im at 2000 at 3vs3 and 1900 at 2vs2. The point is, you are talking to go blood spec to deal vs 2 melee.. Do you know how many groups of 2 melee are in 1900-2000 rating?.. Let me answer for you, None! :/ All you find its pally with DK or Lock or Warrior (Also i found with a survival hunter, and got few problems with that gruop). So, blood spec is useless at the moment for higher ratings, and you will have to use the same specs as before, unholy or frost.

In my opinion frost now works a way long better than unholy. With frost you've got better burst, you snare with a simple IT, no waste of RP to use MF, anti-fear, combined with the gargole and the ghoul, its a perfect build to play wiht a healer or another DPS (In my case i play with a retradin).

But that are just opinions

 

Joink

A blood spec is very good for 2's and 3's. Viable and completely competitive. Way to many dk's have the mindset that to get anywhere you need points in unholy down to scourge strike. Since the 3.0.8 patch, unholy lacks burst and survivability.

 

MissnL1nK

Have you been playing with Frost for a good amount of time in 2's? I am running with a Disc Priest and we are just getting back into arena seriously and I want to try to try a Frost build vs Unholy. Right now we are sitting around 1860 and want to push for 2k next week. I just want to make sure the control of Frost is as good as Unholy. Losing the pet is the main thing that bothers me.

My better smells like french toast.

 

• Lanky

I am only playing Shadowfrost to babysit my healer past 2x dps teams like mage rogue. We have had a really hard time dealing with 2x dps: including feral druids now too... Once Blood's snare problems have been better alleviated (endless winter lowered), it will be even better than it presently is.

 

Buttons245

I have found it a great joy when I see a paladin on the opposite team, atm I run as ret pala or HAT rogue (not for 4 weeks with the rogue tho).

Genuinly the best tactic when fighting pala heal/DPS teams, is to force bubble on the paladin, then attempt to blow up the other DPS, then back to the pala healer after bubble has gone. Concidering they have only 1 DPS, the chances of them killing your partner (assuming they are wriggly enough to get out of the situation... I find that people try to kill me last) are next to none, and paladin healers are a free kill when they have no bubble (I find that having 1 DPS on a healer and 1 on the dps works well also, as mind freeze can cause no bubbles for 5 secs which can be bursted from up to 10k hp to 0 in a couple of crits)

sorry if this post was out of order etc, but I just wanted to share my little experience of encounters with those setups.

I am concidering running with a feral druid, if anyone has advice on it, please give me some comments cheers

(raid spec + gear on atm for armoury btw, but I usually run as unholy/blood)

 

Buttons245

Depends what spec you are running, think most of my spells in unholy ignore the best part of armour mitigation, and I find that blood has nice large swings but sustained DPS is low. Atm I use IT>PS>SS>HS>HS to open, finding oppenents on the brink of death if they have no healer in their party, whilst they aren't nearly as close to killing either myself or my partner, alas I have no clue what sort of damage I'd do as a blood spec, but I don't believe stacking ArP over str gems is ever a good idea :P

 

Aeronx

With my frost build i dont lose the pet! :/ And I played all specs in arenas, and the best of the best its frost, much burst, good range, and you snare with the IT, also got gargole, antifear and controled ghoul. I cant find out anything better.

 

Aeronx

Well, Im not agree with that info :/ Im now at top of teams on all arena ranks (2, 3 and 5), and the tactic is that, but most dificul combo its palaheal+DK. I play with a Palaretry... and we both got 700-800 resilence, with kelthu10 axe, and a pally that can "run" a little isnt easy to make him bubble, and by the time his paladin has bubble, mine too. At 2000+ rating, paladins are not noobs. I just lose vs palaheal-dps.. locks and Dks with a palaheal, its a dificul combo for 2 dpsrs. Another way is to burst the DPS, and silencing, CCing the healer faster than fast, but that doesnt always works. But one thing its true, im always the last diying!

 

Sparring For Shotgun

Can you please provide alink to this spec?

Also how much resillience/Ap/Crit/Spell Pen are people stacking. What do you feel is the right balance of these stats in arena?

 

Illundai

So, I've been running DK/Pala/Warrior for a while now and kind of want to try out blood. My reasons are pretty simple, no one ever goes for me so I do not need the additional survival Unholy offers me. Considering that I can just nuke freely in most arena games I think Blood will definitely be very strong, so I started thinking on how to spec.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Is a quickly done first thoughts 'sketch'. I'm doubting on several areas however. First thing is no Sudden Doom, my aim is to go up to 130 Runic Power before I unleash DRW, so the free cast Death Coils probably would come very handy. Not to mention it's a guaranteed crit, which overrides Resilience. I could drop points in Blood Aura (leftover point) and skip DRM and move a point from Bloodworms. Bloodworms is actually the next point of doubt, they are really not too great in arena besides spell pushback. They add a bit of DPS, I suppose...
Last point is Toughness vs Glacier Rot/Imp Icy Touch. I don't actually think I'd Icy Touch often in this spec, so it got me thinking. My Warrior pretty much gets all the Freedoms from my Paladin, so I'm often slowed. 30% off every snare seems like a good deal to me.

 

• Lanky

You don't have Will of the Necropolis? Also, get rid of Blood Gorged in your pvp spec. Seriously.

Linky to the build you should use:

Use IT spam if you are too far away, pop DRW and go nuts if you are close. You don't need 130 RP to use DRW, that is simply over the top. If the target is not dead inside 15 seconds with it up, you are doing it wrong. Blood Gorged is flat out bad for pvp. Sudden Doom is indeed good. Make sure you get a proc notification for it. Having Killing Machine / solid crits on IT is good, since you cant get endless winter, you need to split your frost runes between IT and COI.

Bloodworms are not worth it, but healing gained from 2/2 blood aura under Vampiric Blood is quite decent, actually.

 

• frmorrison

For Blood, you want something like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

30% shorter snares is nice if you never get Freedom. I don't think Sudden doom is worth it atm due to GCD, 3.1 will fix that.

Bloodworms are bad, and Blood runs disease free so no need to buff Icy Touch.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Lanky

Blood only runs disease free in PvE, as far as I know, the effect of toughness versus the effect of having a decent damage attack at range is the main consideration. You will need the frost fever dot against rogues and mages, and against healers to keep them in combat, and IT can put out very respectable damage with just the minimum 20 points invested.
Also, Scent of Blood is bad, I am pretty sure,

 

Aeronx

Okey, so you see blood as a good spec for pvp. My Q is, have you played seriusly arenas in an high ranked team? If the answer is NO, you dont know what you are talking about.

Bad things for blood:

melee range
If you get snare and far from your target DWR WONT do anything, burst lost.
Also you can NOT spam IT, just because you have to spam CoI, or say goodbye to you target.

Good things for blood:

Good burst if you can get into your target.
Not bad survival because you can heal alot.
Also with a good spec, you can get Lichborne (As my opinion its the most important talent)

So, now lets compare with a Good frost build called by myself "Frostadow"

Bad things for "Frostadow":

You cant heal yourself, at least much.

Good things for "Frostadow":

Perfect Range
Best burst also from range
"Oh!" You can spam IT, because you snare with it!
Got Deathchill that is a perfect "execute" (Crits of 7k)
Got Umbreakable armor (Its good vs melee and good that extra AP)
Got Frost Aura, as far i can see, there's A LOT of magues, DKs and Locks, and its worth it!
And one of the best, got Frost Strike! a Magnific spell that is MAGIC (by saying MAGIC, i mean that it will hit through fisical bubbles from pallys), crits for 5k and cant be avoided!! (Thats the Chiken of golden eggs)

Also for more, you can reach gargole, and Master of Ghouls for best burst! Uhmm, and call my crazy but "Oh, Got an hability to sacrifice pet that crits healing for 18k"... hmm..

So, beredict? I'll better spec frostadow. But remember, its just my opinion, a person who only talks from experience .