[Deathknight] PvP Thread - Page 14

Sparring For Shotgun · 02/10/09, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Aeronx

Okey, so you see blood as a good spec for pvp. My Q is, have you played seriusly arenas in an high ranked team? If the answer is NO, you dont know what you are talking about.

Bad things for blood:

melee range
If you get snare and far from your target DWR WONT do anything, burst lost.
Also you can NOT spam IT, just because you have to spam CoI, or say goodbye to you target.

Good things for blood:

Good burst if you can get into your target.
Not bad survival because you can heal alot.
Also with a good spec, you can get Lichborne (As my opinion its the most important talent)

So, now lets compare with a Good frost build called by myself "Frostadow"

Bad things for "Frostadow":

You cant heal yourself, at least much.

Good things for "Frostadow":

Perfect Range
Best burst also from range
"Oh!" You can spam IT, because you snare with it!
Got Deathchill that is a perfect "execute" (Crits of 7k)
Got Umbreakable armor (Its good vs melee and good that extra AP)
Got Frost Aura, as far i can see, there's A LOT of magues, DKs and Locks, and its worth it!
And one of the best, got Frost Strike! a Magnific spell that is MAGIC (by saying MAGIC, i mean that it will hit through fisical bubbles from pallys), crits for 5k and cant be avoided!! (Thats the Chiken of golden eggs)

Also for more, you can reach gargole, and Master of Ghouls for best burst! Uhmm, and call my crazy but "Oh, Got an hability to sacrifice pet that crits healing for 18k"... hmm..

So, beredict? I'll better spec frostadow. But remember, its just my opinion, a person who only talks from experience

.

whats this spec you speak of?

Aeronx · 02/10/09, 8:18 AM

Its a Deep frost with some talents in unholy to get gargoyle and Master of Ghouls.

0/44/27

Illundai · 02/10/09, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lanky

You don't have Will of the Necropolis? Also, get rid of Blood Gorged in your pvp spec. Seriously.

Linky to the build you should use:

Use IT spam if you are too far away, pop DRW and go nuts if you are close. You don't need 130 RP to use DRW, that is simply over the top. If the target is not dead inside 15 seconds with it up, you are doing it wrong. Blood Gorged is flat out bad for pvp. Sudden Doom is indeed good. Make sure you get a proc notification for it. Having Killing Machine / solid crits on IT is good, since you cant get endless winter, you need to split your frost runes between IT and COI.

Bloodworms are not worth it, but healing gained from 2/2 blood aura under Vampiric Blood is quite decent, actually.

Like I said, it's very rare I get focused. We did an odd 25 games last night and I got focused maybe twice. I rarely drop below 75% so the 10% damage bonus will be useful quite often. Suppose I'll just have to try some arenas and see if I'm above 75% enough, but I'm pretty sure I will be.

Think I'll try Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Maybe try to fit in Sudden Doom or something, not sure.

P.S: You grab Runic Power Mastery because it does funky things to your DRW duration.

hip · 02/11/09, 3:26 PM

To those of you running 2s with a priest:
I was wondering how much effort you put into protecting them. I've been running with a priest lately (he has 450 resilience, 18k hp unbuffed) and the poor guy just cannot survive against anything. I find I spend 25% of my time or more in any given match attempting to protect him from the dps that is on him, let alone all my good cooldowns (strangulate to prevent caster damage on him, death grips to get melee off of him, frost runes to chain people killing him, etc etc), this in turn severely hinders my ability to kill opposing healers, and the problem is that after all my defensive cooldowns are blown, he dies anyways alot of the time, thereby not even giving us a chance at a mana war.

I know my partner isnt a bad player per say (he isnt phenomenal, but his skill is better than the rating we're running right now imo), but I'd like to know if any of you guys have any experience here. Does your priest die consistently to like.. every melee class and even to mages 1v1?

◊ foolish_fool · 02/11/09, 6:52 PM

Not really a DK specific answer, but 450 resilience is rather not alot, most of the priests I have read comments from state that resilience starts to feel like it takes effect around 800-900 resilience, with over 1k being better. Certainly my shaman has ~590 at the moment, and I feel it is nowhere near enough.

Buttons245 · 02/11/09, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Aeronx

Well, Im not agree with that info :/ Im now at top of teams on all arena ranks (2, 3 and 5), and the tactic is that, but most dificul combo its palaheal+DK. I play with a Palaretry... and we both got 700-800 resilence, with kelthu10 axe, and a pally that can "run" a little isnt easy to make him bubble, and by the time his paladin has bubble, mine too. At 2000+ rating, paladins are not noobs. I just lose vs palaheal-dps.. locks and Dks with a palaheal, its a dificul combo for 2 dpsrs. Another way is to burst the DPS, and silencing, CCing the healer faster than fast, but that doesnt always works. But one thing its true, im always the last diying!

HMmmm not met a holypala/DK combo yet, but tactic usually works for me, although I have BoH and mostly 213 pve gear. One thing I do have trouble with is fury warrior + holy pala, seem to get endlessly kited by paladin cus of undispellable hamstring spam (running with a feral/resto specced druid in resto gear), can't seem to get the break I need (doing rotation then using ERW to reset runes and gibbing them). I'll admit I am not at a high rating myself, but I do dread that combo in the future, thanks for the heads up ;P

MissnL1nK · 02/12/09, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by hip

To those of you running 2s with a priest:
I was wondering how much effort you put into protecting them. I've been running with a priest lately (he has 450 resilience, 18k hp unbuffed) and the poor guy just cannot survive against anything. I find I spend 25% of my time or more in any given match attempting to protect him from the dps that is on him, let alone all my good cooldowns (strangulate to prevent caster damage on him, death grips to get melee off of him, frost runes to chain people killing him, etc etc), this in turn severely hinders my ability to kill opposing healers, and the problem is that after all my defensive cooldowns are blown, he dies anyways alot of the time, thereby not even giving us a chance at a mana war.

I know my partner isnt a bad player per say (he isnt phenomenal, but his skill is better than the rating we're running right now imo), but I'd like to know if any of you guys have any experience here. Does your priest die consistently to like.. every melee class and even to mages 1v1?

You really have to protect him at all costs if his resil is low. I use everything I have to protect my priest no matter what. A priest with low resil will die in a GCD sometimes to 2 DPS, and in 1 stun to a rogue. My priest is just now starting to get some resil and we are seeing nice changes. I am sure every team you play will focus him so you just have to do what you can. Time your Strang and Mind Freeze on casters, make sure to CC a rogue the best you can, and otherwise just peel everything. Good luck with feral druids though, they destroy low resil targets.

Stoical · 02/12/09, 8:21 PM

Originally Posted by hip

To those of you running 2s with a priest:
I was wondering how much effort you put into protecting them. I've been running with a priest lately (he has 450 resilience, 18k hp unbuffed) and the poor guy just cannot survive against anything. I find I spend 25% of my time or more in any given match attempting to protect him from the dps that is on him, let alone all my good cooldowns (strangulate to prevent caster damage on him, death grips to get melee off of him, frost runes to chain people killing him, etc etc), this in turn severely hinders my ability to kill opposing healers, and the problem is that after all my defensive cooldowns are blown, he dies anyways alot of the time, thereby not even giving us a chance at a mana war.

I know my partner isnt a bad player per say (he isnt phenomenal, but his skill is better than the rating we're running right now imo), but I'd like to know if any of you guys have any experience here. Does your priest die consistently to like.. every melee class and even to mages 1v1?

It's very tough for priests to survive right now, especially against melee, which is why the priest PvP thread is called "Surviving as a priest." Double DPS, yes, you definitely want to protect him at all costs. DPS/healer, you will have to protect him some, but he needs to be good at kiting and surviving by himself as much as possible. If you have to spend all your time protecting him, especially against healer+MS/wound comps, you're not going to win much. I try to fight far enough away from my priest that if his rogue wants to blind or his warrior wants to peel, he'll have to travel far and lose a bunch of dps time, but close enough to DG/chains as much as needed.

Sparring For Shotgun · 02/16/09, 3:01 AM

What talents do you feel are the best for burst DPS and why.....

Deldrak · 02/16/09, 4:22 PM

Hey everyone, I read these forums all the time (along with many others), looking for what people like to spec as for PvP. I have many specs I like, but I have one that I am very curious about for a 2v2 arena team specifically. For 3v3 and 5v5 I plan on being unholy; Desecration is just too good to turn down with that many people in the arena. So if there's any input on this blood spec, that would be greatly appreciated.

I should also add that my strategy for this is a 2v2 team with a Ret Paladin. My thought process is that we can both pretty much just heal ourselves and quickly burn one of their players making it 2v1.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

• frmorrison · 02/17/09, 5:44 PM

The issue DK 2v2 team with a Ret Paladin is healers being able to keep up the other while the dps kills one of you.

Frost (20/51) sounds like a better spec so you can try to Repent + Freeze the dps while you try to blow up the healer.

Whatev · 02/17/09, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

The issue DK 2v2 team with a Ret Paladin is healers being able to keep up the other while the dps kills one of you.

Frost (20/51) sounds like a better spec so you can try to Repent + Freeze the dps while you try to blow up the healer.

And as often as not, Repent+Freeze on the healer while you kill the DPS is even better.

skil · 02/18/09, 8:01 AM

Firstly, thanks for the information and analysis. Continously helpful.

Currently sporting 450 resi (mix of hateful, savage, valorous x 2), BoH, 17 blood /54 frost. My 2v2 arena partner is a boomkin. She only has about 400 resi (which I know is one of the issues, working on it!).

Vs. double dps, we normally open with me attacking the 'softest' target and her coming out of stealth throwing out treants and starfall and nuking.

If a melee tries to engage her, CoI / DG keeps 'em close to me. If it's a healer we double dps the healer and pray for a result.

She is fully moonkin specd but does heal when necessary.

Grateful for any advice/tactics on how we can do better. Armoury link but I logged out in my pve (tanking) gear as I was boosting a guildy, so might not be that useful.

The World of Warcraft Armory

deathhado · 02/19/09, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Aeronx

Okey, so you see blood as a good spec for pvp. My Q is, have you played seriusly arenas in an high ranked team? If the answer is NO, you dont know what you are talking about.

Bad things for blood:

melee range
If you get snare and far from your target DWR WONT do anything, burst lost.
Also you can NOT spam IT, just because you have to spam CoI, or say goodbye to you target.

Good things for blood:

Good burst if you can get into your target.
Not bad survival because you can heal alot.
Also with a good spec, you can get Lichborne (As my opinion its the most important talent)

So, now lets compare with a Good frost build called by myself "Frostadow"

Bad things for "Frostadow":

You cant heal yourself, at least much.

Good things for "Frostadow":

Perfect Range
Best burst also from range
"Oh!" You can spam IT, because you snare with it!
Got Deathchill that is a perfect "execute" (Crits of 7k)
Got Umbreakable armor (Its good vs melee and good that extra AP)
Got Frost Aura, as far i can see, there's A LOT of magues, DKs and Locks, and its worth it!
And one of the best, got Frost Strike! a Magnific spell that is MAGIC (by saying MAGIC, i mean that it will hit through fisical bubbles from pallys), crits for 5k and cant be avoided!! (Thats the Chiken of golden eggs)

Also for more, you can reach gargole, and Master of Ghouls for best burst! Uhmm, and call my crazy but "Oh, Got an hability to sacrifice pet that crits healing for 18k"... hmm..

So, beredict? I'll better spec frostadow. But remember, its just my opinion, a person who only talks from experience

.

hey, read the forums all the time but first time posting.
I am currently the blood spec pvp looking for ideas on how to beat a mage/rogue combo- i have a priest partner which i must say holds up well for most all other fights. maybe i should try the frostadow build but would like to know if it even has a chance to beat mage/rogue either?
i found in blood if im able to keep melee range on a target they pretty much drop even if they have a healer thanks to hysteria/drw burst.
what happens most of the time against rogue/mage im sure u all already know.
but basically i find myself unable to engage combat on all maps aside from the smallest one. this allows the rogue to sap me. immediately rogue heads to healer and stunlocks/kills priest unless i trinket out of sap. at this point i find that i never have runic power so my options are to dg the rogue off the priest/chains the rogue. at which time i try to strangulate the mage but normally my priest is already dead or damn near close to it since the mage already got off a few hits.
i read the surviving as a priest thread but it seemed to be no help on this combo-
if there is anything i can do or tweak i am willing to try it. seems pointless to arena if i cant beat this combo.
i feel there has to be a way for priest/dk to beat mage/rogue, even if i have to gear/talent and glyph for it i will.

---sry i didnt note before, my priest has over 900 resilience

huntcaudata · 02/19/09, 5:42 PM

I have a bit of an esoteric question that I hope won't be construed as laziness, as if there's an answer out there already, I haven't missed it for lack of trying.

How does one PvP as a Deathknight?

That's a bit broad obviously. I see, though, a lot of people casually assuming that one should know whether or not to, for example, chains of ice or death grip someone to peel them at a particular point. I am however, a complete infant in pvp, just reaching the point where I could pretend I know what I'm doing, but I imagine my limited success is due to the powerful nature of DK/Holy rather than any skill.

Is there an in depth guide of this nature anywhere, or would anyone be willing to discuss what they use as general strategy, or is this truly something one must puzzle out through hours of play? I'm not really looking for arena centric advice on particular matchups (though god knows I could use that as well, I know not to expect a guidebook on beating every possible team), but simplistic suggestions for a PvP "rotation". I don't even know whether I should plague strike half the time, or whether I should deathcoil or save RP for a gargoyle in 10 seconds, etc.

Joink · 02/19/09, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by huntcaudata

I have a bit of an esoteric question that I hope won't be construed as laziness, as if there's an answer out there already, I haven't missed it for lack of trying.

How does one PvP as a Deathknight?

That's a bit broad obviously. I see, though, a lot of people casually assuming that one should know whether or not to, for example, chains of ice or death grip someone to peel them at a particular point. I am however, a complete infant in pvp, just reaching the point where I could pretend I know what I'm doing, but I imagine my limited success is due to the powerful nature of DK/Holy rather than any skill.

Is there an in depth guide of this nature anywhere, or would anyone be willing to discuss what they use as general strategy, or is this truly something one must puzzle out through hours of play? I'm not really looking for arena centric advice on particular matchups (though god knows I could use that as well, I know not to expect a guidebook on beating every possible team), but simplistic suggestions for a PvP "rotation". I don't even know whether I should plague strike half the time, or whether I should deathcoil or save RP for a gargoyle in 10 seconds, etc.

I think the main thing to understand is that you don't rely on diseases at all unless your after a druid. Use plague strike if you have the Desecration talent, use icy touch if you have improved icy touch/black ice, otherwise spam CoI. Learning to properly CC players off your teammates is probably the best skill to master. There's a few good videos out there to watch. If your really into arenas and wish to rank high, spec whatever is the most unbalanced at the moment and roll faces. Currently most of the DK's in arena put 20points into frost and abuse the shit out of icy touch. Dumb gimmick that many 'good' DK's roll with then post about how good they are:

Originally Posted by Aeronx

Okey, so you see blood as a good spec for pvp. My Q is, have you played seriusly arenas in an high ranked team? If the answer is NO, you dont know what you are talking about.

deathhado · 02/20/09, 8:56 PM

Isnt there any other priest dk combos that can beat a mage rogue??

Anyone that can give insight? I have good gear pve and pvp, whatever i can mix and match or any ideas to help glyphs for that matchup or gems otherwise...

-

Azmodeon · 02/21/09, 6:18 PM

Trying to up my mediocre crit rate so looking at replacing my Anvil of the Titans from WG with either teh undeath deck reward (85 crit rating and 750ish dmg with 45s cooldown) or the chaos deck reward (chance to add 35 crit and resilience when struck in combat - stacks up to 3 times). Since I don't raid much at all, these are probably 2 of the easiest pieces to choose from. Does the Berserker card proc often enough to make it worth while, since you want all 3 procs up asap, as you get nothing else from this card.

Lushen · 02/22/09, 7:44 AM

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

How about this variation on the shadowfrost build? The shadowfrost build is fantastic but it feels like the pts after Ebon Plaguebringer arent as well spent. So instead of getting 10% damage from RoR, I thought 15% crit from Rime would be a little more effective. As much as I dislike skipping scourge strike, keeping that one unholy rune unused has proven useful quite often for me. If makes refreshing Boneshield or casting AMZ (if I specced for it) much less killer on the rotation.

I did some tests in Acherus hold and was getting 40-45% IT crit chance (with 25.95% natural crit with Horn of Winter buff only).

flergh · 02/22/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lushen

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

How about this variation on the shadowfrost build? The shadowfrost build is fantastic but it feels like the pts after Ebon Plaguebringer arent as well spent. So instead of getting 10% damage from RoR, I thought 15% crit from Rime would be a little more effective. As much as I dislike skipping scourge strike, keeping that one unholy rune unused has proven useful quite often for me. If makes refreshing Boneshield or casting AMZ (if I specced for it) much less killer on the rotation.

I did some tests in Acherus hold and was getting 40-45% IT crit chance (with 25.95% natural crit with Horn of Winter buff only).

The tree has a ton of wasted talent points for a IT spam build.

2/2 Epidemic. Adding extra 6 seconds to your diseases may seem nice but 18 seconds without diseases being refreshed on a target is a very long time (especially due to the fact you're a one button mash machine) and shouldn't happen at all if you're actually planning on killing the target.

3/3 Annihilation. 3% crit on melee abilities does nothing for IT. Ice and Death runes are for IT, nothing else.

1/3 Runic Power Mastery. 10 extra RP? Your garg wont last longer unlike DRW with extra RP. You can boost your damage more in a passive way with other talent options rather than getting a extra 10 RP buffer.

I think the idea has potential though, although when you go into that tier it makes me wonder if Merciless Combat is a greater point investment.

jooty · 02/23/09, 7:32 AM

so atm i only play 2v2, i dont have a 3v3 and the 5v5 im in is full of plebs, apart from winterwoman. I find that the spec i am flaunting atm is the best one if your running with a healer, be it pala or priest ( i had a few good games with a priest we got to about 1780 or somthing, he was very fragile but our burst and fears worked wonders. The power of holy pala/ DK cannot be underestimated right now, the two are a serious force to be reckoned with and i'm enjoying it alot.

The build im using is frost/unholy, its nice burst and as someone said in erlier post you just abuse Icy Touch, and land 2.7k crits every few seconds then burst away with Scourgestrike and rune strike ect ect,
As you can see no amazing gear or anything but we hold our own at a respectable rating.

I think the most important thing is having a pala that os not averse to dpsing and getting mixed up in the combat. Neurofen my partner is a great player and probably carrying me to some extent.

anyhow.... here is the link

The World of Warcraft Armory

And bye for now, 1st post on EJ forums ftw

Convulsion · 02/23/09, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Aeronx

Okey, so you see blood as a good spec for pvp. My Q is, have you played seriusly arenas in an high ranked team? If the answer is NO, you dont know what you are talking about.

Bad things for blood:

melee range
If you get snare and far from your target DWR WONT do anything, burst lost.
Also you can NOT spam IT, just because you have to spam CoI, or say goodbye to you target.

Good things for blood:

Good burst if you can get into your target.
Not bad survival because you can heal alot.
Also with a good spec, you can get Lichborne (As my opinion its the most important talent)

So, now lets compare with a Good frost build called by myself "Frostadow"

Bad things for "Frostadow":

You cant heal yourself, at least much.

Good things for "Frostadow":

Perfect Range
Best burst also from range
"Oh!" You can spam IT, because you snare with it!
Got Deathchill that is a perfect "execute" (Crits of 7k)
Got Umbreakable armor (Its good vs melee and good that extra AP)
Got Frost Aura, as far i can see, there's A LOT of magues, DKs and Locks, and its worth it!
And one of the best, got Frost Strike! a Magnific spell that is MAGIC (by saying MAGIC, i mean that it will hit through fisical bubbles from pallys), crits for 5k and cant be avoided!! (Thats the Chiken of golden eggs)

Also for more, you can reach gargole, and Master of Ghouls for best burst! Uhmm, and call my crazy but "Oh, Got an hability to sacrifice pet that crits healing for 18k"... hmm..

So, beredict? I'll better spec frostadow. But remember, its just my opinion, a person who only talks from experience

.

Hit 1850 last night (not great, but we are at least on pace for Duelist). I tried out a DRW blood build and we went 1-4 with some pretty pathetic losses. Maybe I was just unused to the spec but all that happened was I got kited around doing nothing while my holy pally slowly died. I then switched back to this build I was using:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Its basically a varient of the type of build already being discussed here. You can faceroll icy touchs to slow the person down; then either howling blast or plague strike (desecration) if they dispell the chilblains. It still has gargoyle for a large killing burst, but picks up bone shield as a survival tool. Personally I have been using it as a duel wield pvp build (last laugh / split greathammer as my current weapons) but it should make little difference if used as a 2-hand build instead.

• Lanky · 02/23/09, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Convulsion

Hit 1850 last night (not great, but we are at least on pace for Duelist). I tried out a DRW blood build and we went 1-4 with some pretty pathetic losses. Maybe I was just unused to the spec but all that happened was I got kited around doing nothing while my holy pally slowly died. I then switched back to this build I was using:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Its basically a varient of the type of build already being discussed here. You can faceroll icy touchs to slow the person down; then either howling blast or plague strike (desecration) if they dispell the chilblains. It still has gargoyle for a large killing burst, but picks up bone shield as a survival tool. Personally I have been using it as a duel wield pvp build (last laugh / split greathammer as my current weapons) but it should make little difference if used as a 2-hand build instead.

Why wouldn't you just go 2h Shadowfrost and pick up the

19:11:25 called in wowhead_item::start:324 Item not found!

?

Cabal · 02/23/09, 2:48 PM

After spending some two hours now trying to check what are the better pvp speccs for DK (either I wasnt looking in the right places, or there really isnt that much available information regarding), the so-called shadowfrost keeps popping up. But glancing at it, I really have no idea why spend 5 points in killing machine, instead of ohh maxxing necrosis? Just seems really odd to me, since A) when in melee range you will hit SS repeatedly and B) when not in melee range, your weapon isnt connecting, so KM is basically 5 worthless talent points.

Am I missing something here?

• Lanky · 02/23/09, 2:54 PM

You are missing the part where it makes your Icy Touches crit a whole bunch.