Just got home from work so I have just accessed the MMO-Champion link you made to your spec (work blocks MMO-Champion) and I think that from the current PTR you could be using your points a little more effectively. Feel free to correct any assumptions I'm making or any mistakes, this is after all on theorycrafting based on 3.1:

Unholy:

3/3 Outbreak - Not needed by a deep Frost build as Unholy runes will be better spent on Obliterates rather than Plague Strikes. If you're Plague Striking then usually it would mean your optimal set-ups have gone wrong, except to apply initial diseases. You would, in my opinion, be better off putting at least one of these points into Corpse Explosion (this should hopefully still be a good source of burst in 3.1 if used at the right time, unless I have missed information to say that it has been nerfed?)

Frost:

2/5 Toughness - Taking this over an extra 30 RP from RPM in a build that utilises Frost Strike as a source of quick burst seems a very strange decision, making a 4 x FS combo impossible.

2/2 Merciless Combat - while a worthy PvP talent, missing out on Deathchill is a big minus to the build. Having a guarenteed Obliterate crit on demand is priceless in a Frost build. In conjunction with a KM proc it will be deadly.

As I say, this is pure speculation at the moment so please feel free to give advice / addittional information / corrections to assumptions.

I really dont know how good pet frost will be... Without the Glyph pet will have around 13k Hp and resummon time will be 3 minutes... 13 k hp is what, 1 IT and 3 Fs? And for the next 3 mins u will not be stunned for 6 times for a total of 18 seconds. Totally worth it killing the pet imho and making many talents he invested in unholy tree quite useless... I just cant get out of my mind 12 points in blood for 400 ap ,4% wpn dmg and 3% crit on obliterate and blood strike... You even have points to get DG.

Unholy tree is really bad for a frost spec. Only damage gain comes from the pet i suppose and Ravenous dead. Dumping 16points into unholy only to gain a pet stun is not worth it imo. First 3 tiers in the blood tree offer damage talents, and improved rune tap if you wanted it.

Gnaw IS worth it.

You mean Gnaw, Epidemic, Virulence, Unholy Command, Ravenous Dead, On a Pale Horse, etc.

It's not always only about damage.

Also, I hear huddle is pretty good when the ghoul starts to get focused. Just what I hear mind you.

Huddle?

If you're running with a healer and using Huddle when the ghoul is focused, your healer normally has a decent time of keeping him up. Also has the added bonus that if they are concentrating on your ghoul, it means they aren't on you or your healer, giving him extra freedom to get the heals off needed to keep you ghoul up.

Depending on how things pan out when 3.1 comes live and the playstyle of each spec works it's way through, it might be worth dropping a glyph to take the Glyph of the Ghoul, giving added survivability.

Has anyone compared the damage recently on the PTR with Frost vs Unholy while wearing full PvP gear. I know some people are reporting that the Frost damage has went down and Unholy has went up by a good margin, with some people reporting SS crits for around 8-9k, 10k in PvE gear.

Stop reading Serennia's shit. My Frost Strikes are critting for ~6.5k on high resilience targets. Obliterates around the 7k margin. Scourge Strike does seem out of whack, but Gargoyle's damage got toned down again afaik and Desecration is still not all that good.

I was messing around with talent builds earlier and after recent games the past few weeks and the amazingly hard time I've been having against Warlocks I was fiddling around with getting Acclimation in my spec. Considering it also procs from Wound Poison procs it could even mitigate a lot of damage from Rogues. Or from mirror games against DKs. Shadowpriests and more. It just seems like a solid spending of points. The problem is the lack of points available. I definitely want On A Pale Horse and Master of Ghouls. Comes with it are Epidemic and Virulence of course, not to mention Unholy Command. The 18 points in Unholy are pretty easy to find. However, getting 3 points spare of your 53 to put into Acclimation is a daunting task. As far as I'm concerned, there is just so much useful stuff in the middle of the tree.

So I started eliminating possible points to drop, but all of them do hurt to drop them.

Merciless Combat. I'm not completely sold on this one being gamebreaking, sure I want stuff to hit as hard as possible once someone is sub 35% but will it make or break it? It actually might. It might not.
Unbreakable Armor. Unglyphed this absorbs around 1.3k in my TANKING gear in raids. Colour me unimpressed. It's very good against Rogues, however and it might be quite useful against warlock dots (if it even works on periodic damage) and possibly against mages. It can of course also be used offensively together with a Blood Tap and a Greatness/Fallen Crusader proc.
Endless Winter. This is imo very potent. Snaring your target with Chillblains while also applying a 100% root for a few seconds is very strong. I'm pretty sure that the free Mind Freeze can come in handy too while you're dumping Frost Strikes.
Improved Frost Presence. 10% health in your DPS stance and 2% less damage taken if you get focused. Yes please. I think this is way too good to give up.
Guile of Gorefiend. Yeah no, too good to give up.
Howling Blast. Hits very hard and with a huge range, hits multiple people. Very situational imo, but the superior choice on high armor targets (instead of Obliterate). Can snare multiple targets if glyphed for.

I really am not sure. I chose to forego Merciless Combat, Unbreakable Armor and Howling Blast. Whether this is a good choice, I don't know. Is it also absolutely necessary to have 3/3 Acclimation? Maybe 2/3 is enough to guarantee a 100% uptime against Warlocks and you can grab Howling Blast instead..?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9722

Correct me if I am wrong but I am almost sure that CoI overrides Chillblains and does not apply it. Pest is also not reapplying Chillblains correctly either, nor is the Disease glyph.

But I do agree with you about some of Serennia's posts being somewhat biased toward Unholy for no certain reason. I know he stated that Frost damage has been lowered but I just haven't seen any signs of it. I understand that SS is hitting very hard now, but I see a nerf incoming on SS in the near future of the PTR. But even if SS is hitting harder, I do not see how it can pressure someone harder than 7k Oblit crits following Deathchill + FS spam.

The move from tier 4 to tier 6 with the ghoul mastery is annoying for Frost or Blood. I guess the move was for Pve reasons. Anyone on ptr trying Shadowfrost? And if you are how is it going?

It's quite possible that I just haven't played at high enough arena levels to really appreciate how good the perma-ghoul is, but I have trouble seeing how it is good enough to be worth losing 15% damage to all abilities and a 30 yard ranged AoE that (glyphed) applies a 50% snare. You also get impurity, but it's been nerfed and TS has been buffed.

If we assume for a minute that MoG isn't worth it, then what looks like a more appealing sub-spec for a 51 frost build? I'm leaning towards something like this. I would love to have On A Pale Horse, but to go from where I'm at in unholy down to it, I'm looking at 8 points that strike me as filler. Hard to justify that compared to 9% obliterate crit, ~500 AP, and 4% extra damage to your two big burst abilities - Obliterate and FS.

These builds are all viable in 3.1 and are all very strong in their own rights.

17/51/03 - Frost/Blood
00/45/23 - Ghoulfrost
00/17/54 - Full Unholy/Endless Winter
09/11/51 - Bladed Armor/Lichborne/Gargoyle

Of the above I think Ghoulfrost and Unholy/Endless Winter will be the strongest. My Scourge Strikes hit for a ludicrous amount and apply some serious ass pressure together with Gargoyle. With Cinderglacier, triple diseases, Bone Shield and Greatness proc I present you Scourge Strike crit #1 (check combatlog) and Scourge Strike crit #2. Absolutely ridiculous, but that's a whole lot of multipliers that you probably wont have all at once in a normal arena game. However, average crit on Scourge Strike was around 8.9k. This was all in PvP gear of course and with Betrayer.

And for good measure, here's a Frost Strike crit (on a <35% dummy though) in a Ghoulfrost spec.

As for why the Ghoul is so important in high end arena, it's pretty obvious.

a) It stops drinking on healers.
b) It does okay damage. Damage has to be healed.
c) It has a stun! If you play with a Paladin healer the combinations of Repentance -> HoJ -> Gnaw -> Strangulate is a guaranteed kill, no matter what. If not a kill, it will force a bubble.

That said, it can get gimped very quickly if you're not used to paying attention to it. But Huddle is godlike for keeping it alive.

As we have discussed elsewhere, I favor the additional AP from Bladed Armor double dipping with Impurity, over Endless Winter, and I am not at all convinced that any points should go into Imp. Icy Touch; the less we are snared the better. I think another option, depending on how good the RP generation on Scent of Blood is, is to drop the AP from Bladed and shift it to Scent for additional, quick RP, with a view to faster Gargoyles and higher Deathcoil spam.

Other than Line of Sight and Shackle issues on the Gargoyle, it has received a tremendous buff in damage and runic power consumption and I think HB and Rime will be hard pressed to compete with that and Gnaw, regardless of how good a Free Hungering Cold and undispellable Chillblains are

I thought the damage buff was reverted?

I do not understand how you guys are getting these huge crits with SS in PvP gear. I am in full PvP gear, granted I do not have Betrayer (using Crypt Fiend right now), and I can not get over 7k. Is your 'PvP' gear mixed with PvE? I do not wear any PvE gear at all.

I'm in PvP gear if you want to check.

Hello here to DK pvp thread.

I have a little question about resilience.

I am quite ok with resilience being VERY important to pvp and arena now, but I am wandering how much resilience would be good for a blood DK.

I currently have nearly 400 very easily, should i go for 600, 700 ? Should I buy the Set gear or off set ?

Because i dont want to nerf my damage, as it is already difficult to burst with all this resilience out...

Yea you are mixing PvE gear with PvP gear which explains the higher crits. I do not wear any PvE gear at all because I do not raid at all, no access to it to begin with. I also noticed you are using Razorice, is it really that much better?

No, the 10k crits come from Cinderglacier procs, most likely.

I was just messing around with some tests on runeforges, I normally use Fallen Crusader.