Constructive criticism would be great just don't flame.
Well, I'd say spending talent points tends to help you in PvP. I mean, sure, it'd be the ultimate e-peen move to say "I'm a glad and I did it as 0/0/0 spec", but I don't know anyone skilled enough to pull that off.
Well, I'd say spending talent points tends to help you in PvP. I mean, sure, it'd be the ultimate e-peen move to say "I'm a glad and I did it as 0/0/0 spec", but I don't know anyone skilled enough to pull that off.
Due to the buff to DS, I strongly recommend taking imp DS. Also, vampiric blood is a great PvP talent when you're running low on health. I know dodge looks great on paper, but hitting with spells in more important in PvP.
Bladed armor seems nice, but it's not so good on paper, especially in a PvP setting. Since they removed obliterate from might of mograine, obliterate isn't going to be as good to use as blood, especially with a buff to DS, so I swapped that glyph out.
I honestly don't think blood is going to cut it in arenas anymore. Even with cleavestring, it's the easiest spec to kite. DRW was always pretty much the only reason a blood dk could kill decent paladins. Hysteria doesn't seem to break cc anymore (patch not live in the EU yet).
Frost and unholy are both looking good, personally I'm pretty sure something along the lines of Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft will work for me.
Frost will be viable if you wear 4pc T7 for the RP generation. It leaves you quite low on resilience though (400 range). I will try it for 2's, because hungering cold is pretty awesome - but for 3's you will get eaten alive at that resilience level so I will probably be unholy.
The only spec that seems interesting and somewhat different is the frost spec that goes to frost strike and then up to perma-ghoul. It was sub-par in BG's but I want to get some arena time in with it because I think it might end up being better than straight frost.
Frost will be viable if you wear 4pc T7 for the RP generation. It leaves you quite low on resilience though (400 range). I will try it for 2's, because hungering cold is pretty awesome - but for 3's you will get eaten alive at that resilience level so I will probably be unholy.
The only spec that seems interesting and somewhat different is the frost spec that goes to frost strike and then up to perma-ghoul. It was sub-par in BG's but I want to get some arena time in with it because I think it might end up being better than straight frost.
You really think you need 4pc t7? Hungering cold makes frost really damn good in my opinion. Once trinket is blown its gg for the healer. Paladins are the only good counter for frost in 2's.
Frost will be viable if you wear 4pc T7 for the RP generation. It leaves you quite low on resilience though (400 range). I will try it for 2's, because hungering cold is pretty awesome - but for 3's you will get eaten alive at that resilience level so I will probably be unholy.
The only spec that seems interesting and somewhat different is the frost spec that goes to frost strike and then up to perma-ghoul. It was sub-par in BG's but I want to get some arena time in with it because I think it might end up being better than straight frost.
You don't need 4pc t7, you will get blown the shit up. Serennia was talking smack and doing what he usually does; misleading everyone. Take the 4pc runic power generation bonus from Deadly (getting hit by snares generates a steady stream), and don't attempt silly 30k burst streaks, just Hungering cold into FSx2, OBx2, and Strangulate the Healer once he comes out.
why do people put talent into corpse explosion? You can't come back as a ghoul in arena? o.O
Coming back as a ghoul got removed, Corpse Explosion can be used to blow up your Pet Ghoul.
It's a excellent addition to burst when the target is stunned/snared (as in CE has a cast time by the ghoul).
Especially if you're Deep Unholy since you'll have 30second CD on Raise Dead.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
You really think you need 4pc t7? Hungering cold makes frost really damn good in my opinion. Once trinket is blown its gg for the healer. Paladins are the only good counter for frost in 2's.
Using Serennia's own example CC/Burst rotation the difference between 4PC T7 and PVP set is the difference of a single Frost Strike.
Meaning: 7FS + 3OB (T7 4PC) versus 6FS + 3OB (No T7 4PC)
No doubt a single Frost Strike crit to finish off someone who managed to barely stay alive can be match deciding, but by no means is it a requirement.
Also despite the fact that his 4PC will put him in the 300s in resilience, Serennia insists that Unbreakable Armor is not worth the 1 talent point. If you do decide to wear 4PC... don't skip UA. It's arguably one of the best survivability skills DKs get. I'm guessing his reasoning is because he figures every team is going to tunnelvision his priest but who knows.
It's a excellent addition to burst when the target is stunned/snared (as in CE has a cast time by the ghoul).
Especially if you're Deep Unholy since you'll have 30second CD on Raise Dead.
Currently I'm messing around with this frost build for pvp, what I'm curious about is glyph choice, if HB is actually worth it (I got it purely for the rime proc to use as a finisher or just some ranged dmg). Also my last question is morbidity vs necrosis since I wont be using as many DCs as I will Frost strike.
And impurity vs Tundra Stalker. Is impurity a better choice since it will always be up vs Tundra stalker which can be dispelled? I'm open to critcisim, this is my first shot as a frost DK, I'll probably end up swapping points from merciless combat to Chill of the grave.
With the new dual spec options a couple of friends and I have chosen to try some 3v3 arena. Coincidentally our makeup is DK/Pally/Lock. I know that this is a popular trio. Still, I haven't been able to find any strategy guides based on this trio. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I'd like to stress that we aren't going hardcore pvp. I'd like to know my options and some general strategy but I'm not too concerned about making "all the right decisions."
Thanks.
Milkbone
In patch 3.1 most all the "player pets" have now a 70% AoE avoidance. And I found that Heart Strike is considered as a AoE spell, as I hit pets at very low damages.
Class like Rogues have some AoE damage reduction. I don't know if it's intended or not, but 30% reduction for rogues, and 70% for pets of my primary attack is crap. HS is intended to replace BS, but now, Dks have to switch strike if they have a pet or a rogue in target to avoid make crap damage.
From doing some 2v2 arenas during the week in between Season 5 and Season 6, the build I'm favouring is this Frost build (I hope that the link works, I'm at work at the moment on my lunch and the web security can be tight)
Most talents are obvious, although some are interchangable. As far as I have experienced and from other DK's advice, Scent of Blood has good potential if you're feeling starved of RP. From my point of view I haven't needed it (yet) as I'm playing around a style which allows 1 minute to build full RP.
Gone is the "easy" 0/21/50 (or 0/20/51) Shadowfrost spec, where we used to chase down healers and burst them from afar, burst them from close range. I've found that matches in 2v2 have become a lot more tactical from a DK/Healer point of view. Now we need to co-ordinate stuns and use offensive cooldowns wisely. From the last week's experience I've found that the following tactic gives the best results:
1. Build 130RP by any means possible, while converting 2 Blood Runes into Death Runes. You should be concentrating on the opposing DPS while having the healer set as your focus.
2. Death Grip the healer so that both opponents are in range of a Hungering Cold, then use HC.
3. Immediately go for the DPS while the healer is frozen by HC (disclaimer, when facing a Ret Paladin, it may be better to go for the healer, as they can cleanse their healer of the HC and you're back to a 2v2 situation)
4. Utilise 4 x FS, 3 x OB, Deathchill a FS, FS again and if Rime procs then Howling Blast.
5. If needed, Stragulate the healer when HC fades, or have your healer stun / fear the opposing healer to give you more time to get the killing blow.
All the while, your healer should also be DPSing the target to aid getting the kill. If and when a healer trinkets the HC, play defensively and repeat the sequence again 1 minute later.
A lot of discussion has centred around the Glyph choice and I believe, after a bit of testing, that FS-OB-HC are the way to go. The build is focused around a 10-15 second burst period every minute, and having a lower RP cost on FS, extra damage on OB and a free HC has given me the most kills during this burst sequence. I really feel that starting a burst on 130RP is a great bonus instead of having that RP depleted when using HC.
While testing I have used 2 different armor choices, one giving ~350 and the other sitting at 700+ resilience and I have had the same amount of success in each for kills, yet feel that the lower resilience hampers my survivability by quite a long way. FP and UA when focused helps a lot, but I just feel "safer" to go about my business with the added resilience. Weapon used was Ironsoul from Ulduar-10 with FC runeforged.
We'll see how arenas play out in the coming weeks, but I was impressed by the above spec. I lost quite a few matches due to simple mistakes coming from a lack of experience at the spec, but won quite a few outside of the CC-burst sequence due to some big FS and OB crits at crucial times.
From doing some 2v2 arenas during the week in between Season 5 and Season 6, the build I'm favouring is this Frost build (I hope that the link works, I'm at work at the moment on my lunch and the web security can be tight)
Most talents are obvious, although some are interchangable. As far as I have experienced and from other DK's advice, Scent of Blood has good potential if you're feeling starved of RP. From my point of view I haven't needed it (yet) as I'm playing around a style which allows 1 minute to build full RP.
Gone is the "easy" 0/21/50 (or 0/20/51) Shadowfrost spec, where we used to chase down healers and burst them from afar, burst them from close range. I've found that matches in 2v2 have become a lot more tactical from a DK/Healer point of view. Now we need to co-ordinate stuns and use offensive cooldowns wisely. From the last week's experience I've found that the following tactic gives the best results:
1. Build 130RP by any means possible, while converting 2 Blood Runes into Death Runes. You should be concentrating on the opposing DPS while having the healer set as your focus.
2. Death Grip the healer so that both opponents are in range of a Hungering Cold, then use HC.
3. Immediately go for the DPS while the healer is frozen by HC (disclaimer, when facing a Ret Paladin, it may be better to go for the healer, as they can cleanse their healer of the HC and you're back to a 2v2 situation)
4. Utilise 4 x FS, 3 x OB, Deathchill a FS, FS again and if Rime procs then Howling Blast.
5. If needed, Stragulate the healer when HC fades, or have your healer stun / fear the opposing healer to give you more time to get the killing blow.
All the while, your healer should also be DPSing the target to aid getting the kill. If and when a healer trinkets the HC, play defensively and repeat the sequence again 1 minute later.
A lot of discussion has centred around the Glyph choice and I believe, after a bit of testing, that FS-OB-HC are the way to go. The build is focused around a 10-15 second burst period every minute, and having a lower RP cost on FS, extra damage on OB and a free HC has given me the most kills during this burst sequence. I really feel that starting a burst on 130RP is a great bonus instead of having that RP depleted when using HC.
While testing I have used 2 different armor choices, one giving ~350 and the other sitting at 700+ resilience and I have had the same amount of success in each for kills, yet feel that the lower resilience hampers my survivability by quite a long way. FP and UA when focused helps a lot, but I just feel "safer" to go about my business with the added resilience. Weapon used was Ironsoul from Ulduar-10 with FC runeforged.
We'll see how arenas play out in the coming weeks, but I was impressed by the above spec. I lost quite a few matches due to simple mistakes coming from a lack of experience at the spec, but won quite a few outside of the CC-burst sequence due to some big FS and OB crits at crucial times.
Hmmm, im using a Frost spec too, and I see something that dont understand on your tactic. HC is 40 rp -130 = 90. You've got 90 rp left, and 4xFS is 38x4=154rp.. how can u do it? Anyway i think its the way to play a frost spec. On the other hand i've seen a lot of DK healer being Unholy, and they do a lot of damage to me or my healer (pala healer). Maybe a priest Dk now its a good combo, since priest now survives a lot, and they keep fine their mana.
As the above post states, the HC Glyph means that HC will have a zero RP cost, thus you will start your damage burst sequence with full RP if you've built it up.
I've tried some arenas as my Unholy second spec and I've had a lot of problems with finishing a fight. Yes there is a greater amount of sustained damage, but I find myself being kited more due to a lack of undispelable snare, therefore having a lot less burst potential. Unholy (read Shadowfrost) builds did so well pre-3.1 due to a Glyphed BB ranged snare and a ranged burst damage ability in IT. I'm much more familiar with an Unholy build, yet feel it's become a lot more clunky in 3.1
That being said, I have only managed to play skirmishes in 2v2 as my Holy Paladin partner is busy in real life. The majority of these were with another Holy Paladin who got ~2200 last season. We were unbeaten as Frost against Ret/Resto Shaman, Hunter/Resto Druid (or Resto Shaman) and Rogue/Priest teams, all of which seemed to be "real" teams. Double DPS teams weren't a problem (although these could have been random singles paired together) As Unholy we struggled to get a decent killing position, even with Gargoyle up and full RP / Death runes.
I guess we'll have to see how the season plays out, but if anyone has any positive or not-so-positive experiences, share them here so we can discuss.
The first build gets the benefit of Hungering Cold, Chilblains slow, Unbreakable Armor (nice for +damage and survivability) and Frost Strike. I've found this build literally destroys rogues with FS spam (no evasion fo you!). I've tried it out and done well thus far but I ironically hardly ever use Howling Blast so I dropped it (and Rime) for Rune Tap. It's a whole lot easier to kill dps with this build because unavoidable Frost Strike but it seems a lot harder to kill healers. And I didn't get Endless Winter because I hardly seem to use Chains either over Icy Touch, considering they both slow and icy deals damage.
The second build gets a real nasty Death Coil (dark death, black ice, sudden doom, morbidity, runeforge proc), Heart Strike snare, more survivability (MoB, rune tap, imp blood presence, death strike, etc) and the DRW/Hysteria spike. I haven't given it a run yet with my partner but I'm tempted to think this will do better in killing the healer but worse in killing the dps. The armor penetration plus JC armor pen gems makes a whole lot of pain for healers.
I searched through the thread to try and find something, but all i found was "dont do it"
Would blood presence be viable with a healer with the new imp. blood presence vs Unholy Presence?
I will be mainly using this spec for 2v2 and 3v3 with a Holy Paladin for a healer.
I'm loving the survivability while keeping decent burst damage and a perma-ghoul, but I just don't know if the faster GCD is worth not having 15% more damage and 10% more healing from my healer/my skills (which could change a battle) With the new snare glyph i really don't have a problem getting all my skills off on my target before they get away/try to CC me.
My only issue is i feel that going anything but Unholy Presence is "against the accepted way to PvP" and was hoping to find some math/experience in higher end arena that could support this.
Whats everyone's rating like in 2's so far? We hit 2050(dk/druid) and getting past the good rogue, ret or warrior teams seems impossible. Any good rogue will just wait for the hc then use gouge and dismantle. Ret and warriors I can't seem to keep off my druid. Starting to think this class needs some better form of CC then deathgrip. May be hard to kill a dk but I feel so helpless waiting for cooldowns sometimes.
whats up guys. I mostly PVE on my DK and used to PvP alot on my warrior and now i'm gonna start pvping for a bit. I raid as blood 51/0/20 and i'm just used to blood play style. Was messing around with different specs for 2s and wondered how you guys think this would add up as a blood pvp spec.
04/07/09, 10:45 AM
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