whats up guys. I mostly PVE on my DK and used to PvP alot on my warrior and now i'm gonna start pvping for a bit. I raid as blood 51/0/20 and i'm just used to blood play style. Was messing around with different specs for 2s and wondered how you guys think this would add up as a blood pvp spec.
yeah death strike is sick now. It does great great damage and does not consume diseases. Also heals a bit but not as much as it used to. If it did heal like it used to this spec would be much better. But the dmg on DS is on par if not better than obl.
Just a short notice about Chilblains status (its technically a "class mecanism but since its mostly PvP I post here)
- Chilblains is applied for 10 seconds regardless of the duration of your frost fever when you apply frost fever.
- Chilblains is not dispellable and is not dispelled if frost fever is.
- Hungering Cold applies Chilblains
- Glyphed Howling Blast applies Chilblains on all the targets hit by the spell
- Pestilence applies a "fresh" Chilblains on all targets you spread frost fever on
- Glyph of disease does refresh frost fever but not Chilblains on the main target (bug?)
- Chains of Ice overwrites Chilblains (snare factor is highter)
- Endless Winter speced's Chains of Ice does not apply Chilblains
- Even when the Chains of Ice's snare factor drops under 50%, Icy Touch, Glyphed Howling Blast or Hungering Cold can not apply Chliblains on the target
- Pertilence will apply Chilblins along with frost fever on a secondary target affected by Chains of Ice if the Chains of Ice's snare factor is under 50% (wierd uh?)
Let me make it clear.
Glyphes Howling Blast hits target A and target B -> Both are affected with Frost Fever and Chilblains.
Cast Chains of Ice on A -> Chilblains drops and remplaced by Chains of Ice (Frost Fever is refreshed)
Cast Pestilence on B -> It spreads Frost Fever on A and applies Chilblains if Chains of Ice is older than 5 seconds (somehow target has both debuffs)
I really wish Chains of Ice and Chilblains could "stack" because at some point you have to chose between casting a 10 seconds 50% snare or a Chain that will suck passed 5 seconds not allowing you to apply Chilblains.
You know your right i have had that exact same problem and its really annoying, i generally use Coi due to It hitting for nothing now days and the up front snare, its incredibly annoying that it doesn't create chillibans to. Other than that im full frost at the moment, burst is great, but that's the only pressure we can create, lack of cc/ms means we have to time our burst/silence perfectly to down a geared healer. Virulence could use a boosting up to 50% disease protection at this rate anyway, healers are kiting and nerfing our damage to much, plague strike being reworked to 50% debuff to hot healing would be nice to.
My question is regarding the glove bonus; when you cast CoI, there is a chance your Frost rune will immediately refresh.
I've had the gloves for a very long time, currently using the Furious version. However, I can't say that I've ever noticed it proc; not to say it's never procced, I just have never noticed it. There is so much to take in during Arenas, I just can't stare at my runes.
So my question is this:
How do you tell when it procs? Does your add on alert you? This certainly opens some opportunities if you immediately notice.
How often does this proc, in your experience?
For me I'd estimate a 25+% proc rate on the deadly gloves. I see it very easily cuz it just refresh my MagicRunes frost rune....just go to a target dummy and spam COI, although its possible the furious version is borked?
Thirty seconds on wowhead will get you to the spell data, which shows a 35% proc rate. I'm not sure how you could never notice it either, seems like throwing out a snare and not having one of your F runes go on cooldown would be worth watching for.
Has anyone gotten much arena experience with the 0/45/26 build? I've been running 0/17/54 and liking it, but my arena partner is horribly undergeared right now, and I feel like HC and an undispellable snare would make peeling a lot easier. I'm just not sure how the burst damage damage compares.
I've been running 0/17/54 and liking it, but my arena partner is horribly undergeared right now...
I run the same spec with a Resto Druid. My friend is also horribly undergeared: 17K buffed HP, 400 Resillience, 4 pieces of Brutal Gladiator gear.
I prefer the unholy spec, because here i can slow with my 2x unholy runes, root with my 2x Frost runes, have a shorter cooldown on Grib and i have a ghoul stun.
With the frost spec you are using the same 2xfrost runes to either root or to snare. Granted, you get a free 10sec freeze on top, but i still think you are better off for peeling with unholy.
Has anyone gotten much arena experience with the 0/45/26 build? I've been running 0/17/54 and liking it, but my arena partner is horribly undergeared right now, and I feel like HC and an undispellable snare would make peeling a lot easier. I'm just not sure how the burst damage damage compares.
I tried a Frost Strike and Perma-Ghoul build and the burst was laughable. It seems that the synergy is all wrong for some reason with regards to runes and RP. I enjoyed the deep Frost build that I posted on the previous page, but I found that it just didn't work as well as a 0/17/54 Unholy build. I'm still playing with my Holy Paladin S5 partner, so that might have a lot to do with our lack of success in the first week in a Frost spec.
First night we went 3-11 against ~2000 rated teams before I swapped to Unholy for the next batch of games. We ended the week 24-24 and that includes a further 0-3 as Frost. All told Frost took us 3-14 and Unholy 21-10. It seemed that using HC once per minute as a CC->burst sequence was a little too obvious and every team was waiting for it. As a Holy Paladin has a terrible time putting out offensive pressure, we rarely scored a kill.
Unholy was similar to S5 in that burst chains worked very well with Gargoyle, HoJ, Strangulate and Ghoul Stun. Admittedly it was harder to take someone down than in S5, but it felt more likely than in Frost.
We stopped after the 48 games due to my team mate needing to take a week off for RL studies, but we'll be trying the same Unholy and perhaps a deep Blood spec this week when he returns.
I'v switched to 0/17/54 too and I must say it is in general more successfull than 16/52/3.
We really had great time with the HC/Fear/Strang combos with heavy Unholy presence + Ingeneer priest burst but both warriors and Ring of Valor juste killed us so hard.
I would go back to frost anytime if they juste made this bloody CoI not overwriting Chilblains, but in the curent state of the game I just need the Desecration/CoI too much.
Soo I am trying really hard to find an off spec build that can be viable both as a tank for instances and also be a good pvp spec. all of the trees I have seen have had talent points missing from them >< I dunno if its some weird glitch with my comp or not but its becoming really frustrating. Anyone at all that can give me advice would be appreciated.
Soo I am trying really hard to find an off spec build that can be viable both as a tank for instances and also be a good pvp spec. all of the trees I have seen have had talent points missing from them >< I dunno if its some weird glitch with my comp or not but its becoming really frustrating. Anyone at all that can give me advice would be appreciated.
What type of instances are you wanting to tank? Heroics can be tanked in a pure pvp spec just fine. If you really have your heart set on a tanking/PvP hybrid I would recommend a Frost/Blood build getting Runetap/Imp Runetap in Blood while going for a standard frost pvp setup.
If you are thinking about tanking raids however, you should just respec back and forth. It will be cheaper in the long run due to your smaller repair bill.
Regarding your issue with missing talent points, the missing talent points can be reclaimed by just activating your second talent spec. When you go back to the bugged spec you will have your talent points refunded and be able to spend them again.
Currently sitting at 2005 rating in 2s as 19/52 Unholy, Disc Partner. Frost simply never pans out the way you'd expect it to, AOE Blind every minute is hilariously amazing, but it is dispellable if you don't catch both players and very very predictable.
Moving into Unholy though, you get two snares that work together (COI and Desecration) instead of one that is largely counter intuitive, Scourgestrike hits very hard, and while it is not as reliable as Frost Strike against rogues and warriors, you should not have much trouble going toe to tow with them anyways.
The strategies that got us to 2k easily were simple:
#1: COI, Pressure and Mana Burns on the Healer, combined with effective swapping to keep the Priest freecasting.
#2: Rushdown and get in combat if it is a rogue team, saps suck.
#3: Vs. War/Druid go mano a mano with the warrior as much as possible and get your priest to chase the Druid away with burns and a fear. If you see Deathwish or Zerker stance, smash him down with ghoul stun into SS, Empower Rune Weapon, SS, SS, then DCs as necessary.
Remember to take both RP generating talents: Dirge and Chill of the Grave, you will need the RP.
Currently sitting at 2005 rating in 2s as 19/52 Unholy, Disc Partner. Frost simply never pans out the way you'd expect it to, AOE Blind every minute is hilariously amazing, but it is dispellable if you don't catch both players and very very predictable.
Moving into Unholy though, you get two snares that work together (COI and Desecration) instead of one that is largely counter intuitive, Scourgestrike hits very hard, and while it is not as reliable as Frost Strike against rogues and warriors, you should not have much trouble going toe to tow with them anyways.
The strategies that got us to 2k easily were simple:
#1: COI, Pressure and Mana Burns on the Healer, combined with effective swapping to keep the Priest freecasting.
#2: Rushdown and get in combat if it is a rogue team, saps suck.
#3: Vs. War/Druid go mano a mano with the warrior as much as possible and get your priest to chase the Druid away with burns and a fear. If you see Deathwish or Zerker stance, smash him down with ghoul stun into SS, Empower Rune Weapon, SS, SS, then DCs as necessary.
Remember to take both RP generating talents: Dirge and Chill of the Grave, you will need the RP.
How have you been finding rogue/priest as that comp? We haven't had a chance to play very many games yet (unholy/disc as well, 2050 last season), but so far have run into the most trouble with good rogue/priests. The strat I keep seeing, which I didn't see much of last season, is that their priest drags me towards their rogue and they fight basically on top of each other. That way the rogue gets to have the best of both worlds; he's staying on my priest and wearing him down, while still able to gouge me or shiv on crippling so he or the priest can kite/LoS as needed.
Really, the problem with Frost vs Unholy is that you essentially HAVE to burn a frost rune every 10s or so to keep your target snared, more if you need to peel. As Unholy, your undispellable snare is AoE, occurs off your main damage attack as well as your "set up" attack so you don't need to waste a global on it so you can set up your burst more easily, and you still can use an alternate resource (frost runes) to snare.
Against Priest/X, I can't imagine being able to put out any sort of pressure on X while using my main damage resource to stop the Priest chasing my Healer. Also, CoI/Glyph of Disease not proccing Chillbains really hurts.
How have you been finding rogue/priest as that comp? We haven't had a chance to play very many games yet (unholy/disc as well, 2050 last season), but so far have run into the most trouble with good rogue/priests. The strat I keep seeing, which I didn't see much of last season, is that their priest drags me towards their rogue and they fight basically on top of each other. That way the rogue gets to have the best of both worlds; he's staying on my priest and wearing him down, while still able to gouge me or shiv on crippling so he or the priest can kite/LoS as needed.
You need to drag the priest to you in that scenario and call for burns, or for a fear bomb. It is perfectly fine for both of them to be near you, as long as your priest is far enough away to go offensive. DK's have the luxury of turtling up very very nicely when they need to, so if the rogue tries to get you next to the priest, either COI him or just DG the priest over and swap to him, and get some mana burns off.
One of the things about not having a MS effect is that you will need to swap constantly to pressure that blue bar. Once it is low, bore down on the priest and finish him off.
I've found 0/17/54 to be heads and tails above any frost spec for pvp. The ghoul is huge, I've had him solo down undergeared enemies. That, and the very high sustained damage keeps so much pressure on the healer that they almost always oom before my shaman partner does. Of the 36 games I've played this week (we're 23 and 13 on the week, 1640 match making ranking atm), only in 3 of them did the opposing team's dps combine to be remotely close to my own. Plus, with the change to death strike now healing for 5% per disease, it heals me 15% of my health when I use it, which is absurd. If death runes are up, I can heal 45% of my health in 3 GCDs without blowing any cooldowns.
The secret is the blow all of your burst very early and then keep the enemy on the defensive if you don't kill them right away. Put diseases up on the main target, Spread them to his partner if possible, scourge strike, blow cooldowns, summon the gargoyle, get pet frenzy up, we also bloodlust at this point, and I'm easily breaking 6k dps for the next 30 seconds. Once SS is useable again, BS twice for death runes, SS twice, Empower Rune Weapon, and SS three more times. Do not be afraid to use DC if the target is low and all of your other runes are on cooldown.
As far as arena history goes, I started the season as a frost spec, 17/51/3 and 0/51/20 and 3/50/18 all felt good, but the fact of the matter was that the dps was only decent when I was fully bursting, which happened once every minute for about 6 seconds. This meant that the opposing healer could save GCDs for when I bursted, and we ended up going 2-15 on our first 17 games. Once our matchmaking rating was lower, we started beating the bad teams,but we were going 50-50 at the 1200 match making rating point, and that flat sucks. My damage dealt was never very high, and I was usually outpaced by the other team.
Since I've switched to 0/17/54, we've gone up to a 1600 MMR, and we're still winning 2/3 of our games. My dps, as I mentioned before, routinely outpaces opponents by a wide margin. A recent maraton game against a holy priest / warlock team ended with me doing 350,000 damage and the warlock doing 150,000. Nerf priests, by the way. I'm really tired of seeing penance heal my target from 3% to 100% in 3 seconds. even if I get a silence off, it's still ticked for at least 30% of their max health. Ugh.
I see that almost everyone is playing his DK with a healer as partner, or with a healer with some assist dps capabilities. For those compositions, I can understand how powerful a UH build must be.
But I play with a Ret Pal. And I must say that I keep wondering what spec is better for a double dps team. Neither of us are really good pvp player, but so far, after 70 matches, we manage to win more often than we lost.
I play as 18/53/0 frost. Mostly because of hungering cold and Improved Rune tap, which saved my life a few times when I was being focused. If I use ERW with a right timing, it can provide a good burst with two OB followed by FS and HB if rimes procs.
But I am wondering if playing UH or Blood would give me better results. As anyone try a pure double dps specs lately (post 3.1) ?
I've found 0/17/54 to be heads and tails above any frost spec for pvp. The ghoul is huge, I've had him solo down undergeared enemies. That, and the very high sustained damage keeps so much pressure on the healer that they almost always oom before my shaman partner does. Of the 36 games I've played this week (we're 23 and 13 on the week, 1640 match making ranking atm), only in 3 of them did the opposing team's dps combine to be remotely close to my own. Plus, with the change to death strike now healing for 5% per disease, it heals me 15% of my health when I use it, which is absurd. If death runes are up, I can heal 45% of my health in 3 GCDs without blowing any cooldowns.
The secret is the blow all of your burst very early and then keep the enemy on the defensive if you don't kill them right away. Put diseases up on the main target, Spread them to his partner if possible, scourge strike, blow cooldowns, summon the gargoyle, get pet frenzy up, we also bloodlust at this point, and I'm easily breaking 6k dps for the next 30 seconds. Once SS is useable again, BS twice for death runes, SS twice, Empower Rune Weapon, and SS three more times. Do not be afraid to use DC if the target is low and all of your other runes are on cooldown.
As far as arena history goes, I started the season as a frost spec, 17/51/3 and 0/51/20 and 3/50/18 all felt good, but the fact of the matter was that the dps was only decent when I was fully bursting, which happened once every minute for about 6 seconds. This meant that the opposing healer could save GCDs for when I bursted, and we ended up going 2-15 on our first 17 games. Once our matchmaking rating was lower, we started beating the bad teams,but we were going 50-50 at the 1200 match making rating point, and that flat sucks. My damage dealt was never very high, and I was usually outpaced by the other team.
Since I've switched to 0/17/54, we've gone up to a 1600 MMR, and we're still winning 2/3 of our games. My dps, as I mentioned before, routinely outpaces opponents by a wide margin. A recent maraton game against a holy priest / warlock team ended with me doing 350,000 damage and the warlock doing 150,000. Nerf priests, by the way. I'm really tired of seeing penance heal my target from 3% to 100% in 3 seconds. even if I get a silence off, it's still ticked for at least 30% of their max health. Ugh.
Do you use any definate rotation at all? If so could you or anybody else using the 0/17/54 build post it please?
I see you said you first put diseases up, then SS, and blow cooldowns, but I am not too familiar with any unholy rotation, been ages since I have had a Unholy build, so not sure what sort of line up of rotation I need
Also, would this still be the best build even if your not doing arenas that much? Seems like in bgs and such you would want to go with a more self heal oriented build since you most likely have more than 1 target attacking you, while in arenas you have a healer always focused on you so you don't really need any self heal abilities
Can we not crap up this thread with excessive handholding questions?
Originally Posted by Drayk
...I must say that I keep wondering what spec is better for a double dps team...
I'm running double DPS with a rogue partner as 0/17/54. I haven't tried a deep frost PvP spec post 3.1, but I don't think any spec can top the burst of gargoyle + ghoul bomb + SS spam. I also think the self-healing of the two specs is pretty comparable. Unholy doesn't have any big heals like rune tap, but 5% more HP from death strike is noticeable, and in a pinch DS spam with ERW can be a lifesaver.
On a side note, how do you guys handle tree tanks without a MS effect? We have enough trouble with wound poison, I can't imagine ever dropping a well-geared tree without it.
words
what Glyphs should i be using? (currently CoI, Scourge Strike and Death Coil)
The best possible rotation
Gemming
Three things, and this goes for all of you:
1. There is NO Rotation. STOP ASKING.
2. Glyphs: Ghoul, Dark Death, and then choose between: COI, SS, Dieases.
3. Gemming: Are you really serious? You gem for primary statistics: Strength, or resilience if you need it. There really are not that many gems in the game that offer both, so hey, go take a gander.
4. I routinely sweep through here and flag down hand-holding posts for basic stuff like gear, gems, and god-damn "rotations", so unless you like infraction points, please don't ask about those.
I suggest asking about things like Comp strategies, IE: What to do vs Dru/War, Rog/Prst. Or ask about tricks in certain arenas, positioning, proper use of cooldowns to avoid certain situations.
No more of this rotation crap. This is not Patchwerk.
Can we not crap up this thread with excessive handholding questions?
I'm running double DPS with a rogue partner as 0/17/54. I haven't tried a deep frost PvP spec post 3.1, but I don't think any spec can top the burst of gargoyle + ghoul bomb + SS spam. I also think the self-healing of the two specs is pretty comparable. Unholy doesn't have any big heals like rune tap, but 5% more HP from death strike is noticeable, and in a pinch DS spam with ERW can be a lifesaver.
On a side note, how do you guys handle tree tanks without a MS effect? We have enough trouble with wound poison, I can't imagine ever dropping a well-geared tree without it.
I'm running into this (Tree-Jesus) in 2's quite a bit. I'm not sure how anyone without a shaman ends up powering through it, honestly. Even then it's insanely difficult. It pretty much never happens for us unless I've got ghoul and gargoyle out, heroism goes up, and then I get the full CC chain off. Often we have to play survival if I don't crit a couple of attacks.
This matchup got incredibly hard for us due to no MS and the removal of HoT-negating, I believe. I'm curious as well if anyone has found a better method than just chaining big CC and praying for the burst RNG.
I'm running double DPS with a rogue partner as 0/17/54. I haven't tried a deep frost PvP spec post 3.1, but I don't think any spec can top the burst of gargoyle + ghoul bomb + SS spam. I also think the self-healing of the two specs is pretty comparable. Unholy doesn't have any big heals like rune tap, but 5% more HP from death strike is noticeable, and in a pinch DS spam with ERW can be a lifesaver.
On a side note, how do you guys handle tree tanks without a MS effect? We have enough trouble with wound poison, I can't imagine ever dropping a well-geared tree without it.
On the (man)handling of trees: solo, it's not going to happen without a bizarre string of crits. You'll have more luck gluing yourself to the tree's partner, giving your healer room to drink while threatening to gnaw/strangulate/(cc from your partner) and blow up the Druid's partner if he drinks too long.
I've found 0/17/54 to be heads and tails above any frost spec for pvp. The ghoul is huge, I've had him solo down undergeared enemies. That, and the very high sustained damage keeps so much pressure on the healer that they almost always oom before my shaman partner does.
here's the exact spec I'm using:
I really like this spec. It seems a good way to maintain decent PvE DPS and still have an arena build. But until we can tri-spec I feel I want Unholy Blight for many PvE dps situations. What's the least gimping part of this spec to shift points on? How important is On a Pale Horse? What about Death Grip?
I have a friend with a shaman and priest he is thinking about gearing to do some arena with me. Which would make the better partner?
04/25/09, 8:33 AM
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