[Deathknight] PvP Thread - Page 25

Avery · 08/20/09, 4:31 AM

This spec technically wasn't meant for any type of /real/ damage, I should have earlier noted that I was playing with a druid/warrior in a 3s team.

Though, you have a point about the 15% damage from Tundra stalker. All I really wanted was my ghoul ;-;.

I may re-do it, thanks for the comment.

Chrislol · 08/21/09, 1:40 AM

Originally Posted by Avery

This spec technically wasn't meant for any type of /real/ damage, I should have earlier noted that I was playing with a druid/warrior in a 3s team.

Are you playing the support roll? Having a stun is nice, but I think its difficult to justify ghoul over Howling Blast. It's a ranged nuke that can be really, really annoying. How have the games been going? What is your mentality going in; is the intent to insta-gib someone right off the bat, or is it to outlast because I can see it going both ways depending upon how you play.

Avery · 08/22/09, 6:44 AM

Hmm. Perhaps you are correct. I've tried out Howling Blast and so far have found to get a damn good 5k crit off of it along with my warrior's damage output as well as my own with frost strikes. Oh well, I wanted to dream of a frost spec with a ghoul.

I loved that ghoul. He saved my ass many a time.

Thanks again for the criticism.

ralaa · 09/01/09, 6:29 PM

I do 2's with a disc priest, and decided to go with dw frost for its incredible burst damage and the control that it offers you over that damage. With that being said, I did not go the typical route, instead opting for a 12/51/8 build.

The World of Warcraft Armory

-I decided to skimp on chillblains because it seems to situational to me, as well as not having the full 3 points available to put into it based on other talents i decided were necessary.

-Additionally I only put 2 points in blade barrior, as the 9% increased crit chance on obliterate seems to be much more valuable than a 3% damage reduction

-I've seen alot of pvp builds that skip the scent of blood talent, but imho a 15% proc for in essence 30 runic power is something that cannot be ignored, especially considering that those 3 points wont give me much more utility if placed in frost or unholy

-I could have taken the two points out of dark conviction and put them into bladed armor, but i felt that an increased 2% crit on everything outweighs the additional atp, however this is something I am testing out so any input would be appreciated.

-I was originally hesitant to put the points in merciless combat, and I have seen plenty of good builds without it, but nowhere else in the frost tree would be as beneficial imo.

Fratley · 09/02/09, 1:47 PM

The World of Warcraft Armory
Frost Strike: 0/1
Morbidity: 3/3
Chilblains: 3/3
I disliked my runic dump requiring melee range and often found myself using death coil anyway against mages. It crits like a truck with Sigil of the Vengeful Heart and morbidity, and you can heal yourself if you find yourself in a bind.
With the ability to deal damage without the requirement of being in melee range the entire time, I took chilblains; now I rarely waste a frost rune on CoI. I use my killing machine procs on howling blast and Deathchill->Obliterate.

Infernux · 09/09/09, 5:19 AM

I see here people are going for DW frost specs as for 2's.
Is DW specs viable for pvp equally to 2H specs?

Lerum · 09/09/09, 9:59 AM

Which PVP neck should I get?

AP + ArP
AP + Crit
AP + Hit

I'm at 6.4% hit, and I DW so I have Nerves of Cold Steel talent.

My build is DW frost.

yanic · 09/09/09, 5:08 PM

killing druids

Im using this 0 17 54 spec. I am 2v2ing with a disc priest but I am having terrible problems killing druids. The only way I manage to get them down is through getting them by supprise after dpsing their dps, pestilating and then blowing every cd I can.

But then the problems start, about 30% of the time this works. The other 70% they either shadowmeld (Gargoyle stops attacking), or insta-heal back up to full. I just have big problems dpsing down druids before my priest partner runs OOM and we die.

She dispels the druid when I ask for it and occasionaly if she fears the other dps, she can help me chucking over a holy fire but mainly if we use her to mana burn the druid, he still never runs OOM before her.

My rotation on a druid is COI, plague strike, SS, bs bs, SS - Full RP dump with DC and if poss use the blood strikes to get 3xss in a row then pop empower weapon for 2 more. I am more often than not in Unholy Presence for the burst but alot of the time I dont find that I am bursting but I am doing as much dps as I can waiting on CDs.

Would it be an idea to stay in blood presence to cause them to heal alot then wait for CD's for the unholy burst?

I am on 4.3% hit, 4300ap with horn, 110 Spell pen. I look to get up to 5% hit soon but not sure on if this is ideal. We are playing at 1650 at the moment.

I have 3 weapons I could choose from to use in my spec. Stormrune Edge, Betrayer of Humanity or Edge of Ruin. Which is the best weapon to use in 2v2 with this spec? I use BoH but only because it is the 1 weapon without armor penetration and it gives nice AP. I cant figure out which really is the right weapon to choose.

Any ideas?

Slider_1128 · 09/11/09, 3:43 PM

@ Yanic, I feel ya bro. I have same problem. I also run with a Disc Priest in my 2s

I will start out like you do but when i swap i wont blow all my CD's, then they he loads himself up with Hots i will swap back to his dps. When i swap the the dps i make the priest watch him for his innervate to dispel, if you dont get the innervate you lost. Hopefully you can get him to over extend himself by going back and forth. When he does this go to him for the kill get a fear bomb assist from the priest. That combined with strangulate and pet stun will give you a shot at killing him. If nothing else hope that he is too low to rely on Hots and then as soon as he cast you mind freeze. But doesnt always work. Natures swiftness and Swiftmend can ruin your day. Druids are just really annoying.

Enkillz · 09/11/09, 9:47 PM

Unholy seems to be the way to go for PvP, but does anyone have a good frost spec that will give me the burst needed to burn a target? Unholy just does not have the big hits I need, and CC is important in 3v, and 5v's. Any information or advice would be appericated.

Auraelis · 09/12/09, 9:28 PM

I run 2's with a Disc Priest, and 3's with a Mage and Disc Priest and I cannot burst anything. I think its party due to my gear and partly due to my spec. So...what am I doing wrong? Do I need to try DW Frost, should I stick with 0/17/54 and just wait for more gear? If I do choose to go DW Frost is Aledar's Battlestar the best I can get right now?

yanic · 09/13/09, 5:36 AM

Hi Auraelis

Look me up (Yanic on Alonsus)

I changed to a slightly different 0 17 54 and I love it! - U should try it

I only also recently discovered that if I right clicked on my pets auto-attacks I could turn them off! WoW, I was amazed how much easier life is bursting down priests, paladins and shamans. 3 Interupts is more than you need, so long as their partner leaves u alone.

Priests: Get full RP (without using EMPW) Gargoyle out, Mind freeze the shackle or the first cast heal u can (be ready with trinket fear or lichborne, also be ready with AMZ if partner comes for u, No heals for 4s, Silence for 5s, Ghoul Stun for 3s. 12s No heals, with you using Ghoul, Gargoyle, and EMPW to knock out 4SS in a row + 3-4 Death Coils. (In Unholy ofc)

....Now, if only it worked like that with druids.

Dies · 09/13/09, 1:33 PM

Doing 2's with a resto druid, I started the season as dual wield frost but switched to a blood spec. Healers are obviously hard to kill still, but I'm having an easier time than I did as frost or unholy. With Relentless Glad 2h Axe arriving a week from tuesday I'm guessing the spec will really start to show its power.

Heart strike glyph is invaluable against the dispell classes, death strikes, vampiric blood, and rune tap lead to so much self healing that I can keep myself up long enough for my partner to drink easily and we generally outlast other healing teams. If you haven't tried blood recently, I suggest giving it a chance instead of assuming the only viable specs are dw frost and unholy.

(DK is Analysis on Akama(US)

epbb · 09/13/09, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Howwow

This is a spec for a BG junkie (like I am): Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
It doesn't have any healing but it's resilient enough so your healer will have time to react.
There seem to be a few variations of this, some even without Howling Blast (which makes no sense for a BG).

Blood: Blade Barrier is a bit better than the slowish RP gain from Butchery or the rather small dps increase from Subversion. Blade Armor is excellent combined with Toughness from frost. You'll need to play this in frost presence for max armor and increased AP. (for me BA gives some 700 AP in heroics/pvp gear)

Unholy: Virulence is good because +hit helps all dps, especially HB and you may occasionally have someone trying to cure diseases. Anticipation is not that great but maybe a tad better than Vicious Strikes. Epidemic is there not so much for the damage as for the prolonged Chillblains frost effect. There's also synergy with IIT. Unholy Command is there to pull attackers off your healer (or to protect vehicles in WG or Strand) and also to help gather your opponents in a bunch for aoeing.

Frost: the aim is to slow down people as much as possible and doing good HB and Frost Strike damage. More FS against single targets. Hungering Cold
will do the same. You can trinket your way out of it but even trinkets have a cd

FS gets enough fuel from IT glyph and Chill of the Grave. Lichborne is a must. Fillers: Killing Machine, Improved Frost Presence. After next patch there will be two extra talent points for this build if I remember right. Those I'd put in Dark Conviction (blood).

Glyphs: Could change HC to FS glyph but starting a fight with HC is just fun sometimes. Also could replace Horn of Winter with Raise Dead. Corpse dust doesn't cost much though. Only time you'll need a ghoul is when you need an emergency heal using Death Pact. Chains of Ice is tempting but the damage isn't enough imo.

I have no experience of arenas but I'd figure a blood spec might be better with fewer people however this build is good control-wise in WSG, Strand and occasionally delivering lots of damage in AV or WG (run to the middle of a group, use Death Chill for a critical HB hit, Unbreakable Armor/Icebound Fortitude and Anti-Magic Shell for protection, maybe
Plague Strike + Pestilence, Blood Boil, then HC. Take some distance, HB again. With some luck they will be slowed down and can't catch you. With a healer you may live to do it again

Things to look for in equipment or gems: +hit, crit, strength, spell penetration (doing practically only frost dmg may be a problem). Speed enchant for boots or +speed meta gem.

Hi!

I'm new to this forum (And the DK class for that matter), and have been reading up as much as I can about dual wield specs for DKs. So far, I have only seen specs that are good for arena (0/17/54 being the most popular, per several posts on this forum, as well as "http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings"). I saw that the forum post "http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t64830-dw_builds_3_2_revenge_offhand/" talks about dual wield specs, but it doesn't really go into whether or not it's good for PvP.

I was hoping that someone could answer a few questions:

1) With 3.2 out now, is DW PvPing the best way to go (I'm using Aledar's Battlestar and Peacekeeper Blade)?

1) Does Rune of the Fallen Crusader stack on both weapons when Dual Wielding (Particularly 6% Heal)? I've read that the strength doesn't stack, it only refreshes the buff, but haven't seen anything regarding the healing aspect. If the healing doesn't stack, what are the best runes to put on the weapons for PvP (Fallen Crusader / Razorice?).

2) What is the best PvP spec for battlegrounds (DW spec or otherwise, for Wintergrasp, Alterac Valley, etc.)? I saw the recommendation that Howwow posted above, but I was thinking that more healing would be better since my gear is kind of hurting (Still using several Frostsavage pieces). I read someplace that the improved rune tap is really good (Using a spec like this: "http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfV0acZGMjzA0cofucuzAo"), but wanted to get some help from experts on this forum that could give me a recommendation.

Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks for all your input in advance!

dkdonkeykong · 09/14/09, 2:54 AM

EPBB, it seems like DW only starts to get good for pvp is if you go frost and pick up threat, and if you already have a high enough rating to pick up arena weapons. Using a tank sword and a rogue mace just isn't going to get you the burst damage you need for arena's, and you'll probably feel like you don't do enough DPS in BG's. I've done pvp with all 3 specs, and frankly, 2h frost is the way to go. It's very intuitive and all the talents synergize nicely with eachother, and gives you excellent control over when you want to burst somebody down.

You'll get the heal every time RotFC procs, but just the heal isn't really worth it. Change one of them out for swordbreaking, or better yet, stick with 2h until you get some arena ranking.

Here's the spec I did for BG's and dueling, you'll only lose 1v1 to a good frostmage, try to find a disc priest to run around with and you'll get wrecking ball easily. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Auraelis · 09/14/09, 9:07 AM

Which is better for the Frost DW Spec, Scent of Blood or Chillbains? I understand that using Scent of Blood will alllow me to have more Runic Power thus I can pump out more Frost Strikes, but with my current comp we have no snare other than the occasional Frost Mage snares.

Also, Sigil of Virulence or Sigil of Awareness?

epbb · 09/14/09, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by dkdonkeykong

EPBB, it seems like DW only starts to get good for pvp is if you go frost and pick up threat, and if you already have a high enough rating to pick up arena weapons. Using a tank sword and a rogue mace just isn't going to get you the burst damage you need for arena's, and you'll probably feel like you don't do enough DPS in BG's. I've done pvp with all 3 specs, and frankly, 2h frost is the way to go. It's very intuitive and all the talents synergize nicely with eachother, and gives you excellent control over when you want to burst somebody down.

You'll get the heal every time RotFC procs, but just the heal isn't really worth it. Change one of them out for swordbreaking, or better yet, stick with 2h until you get some arena ranking.

Here's the spec I did for BG's and dueling, you'll only lose 1v1 to a good frostmage, try to find a disc priest to run around with and you'll get wrecking ball easily. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Thanks for the reply dkdonkeykong!!

I noticed that the spec you linked was a 51/17/3 Blood spec, and not a 2H frost spec. Did you use blood for BG's and dueling, or did you use 2H Frost? If you used 2H Frost, what spec did you use?

Also, as for the DW spec for PvP, once I do get good weapons, what would the best DW spec be?

Thanks again for your help!

Vicarius · 09/15/09, 6:14 AM

Originally Posted by epbb

Also, as for the DW spec for PvP, once I do get good weapons, what would the best DW spec be?

I've been thinking about the same question recently aswell. Ever since the changes to Frost DW, I've liked it very much for PvE DPS and I wanted to see if I could carry that feeling with me into PvP and/or Arena (as the 'standard' 0/17/54 spec can get quite boring after that 19th SotA today).

The thing is, however, that it's not easy to make a good DW Frost PvP build because the Frost tree requires a very large amount of Talent points to fill in completely to fit the needs of both Frost PvP and the Dual-Wielding. I personally feel that the points spent in Nerves of Cold Steel and Threat of Thassarian are best used elsewhere in the Frost Tree or spent getting utility talents from other trees, making me want to move away from DW and back to using a 2H. If you insist on a DW Frost PvP spec however, I'm fairly confident that 'This 3/54/14 spec!' will do well. Once again, this is all based on personal preference and experience and the best suggestion I can give is just to try it out and then finetune it to your taste.

In any case, I hope you have fun trying it out!

Slider_1128 · 09/15/09, 12:48 PM

Im having trouble with Shamans in arena's, Curious how other DK's Deal with Cleansing totems? Is there a macro for me to have my pet target it and attack it? Cause having my disease removed is killing my damage and so is spending my time reapplying them.

Also im curious to hear from Some blood DK's, I have been unholy (both pve and pve) for a while, being its the most gear forgiving. Now that i have Decient gear i swaped my pve build to blood but kept pvp one Unholy. And my pve DPS sky rocketed. I was thinking of swaping my pvp build to it. But you never (ok not never, cause im sure someone will link me someone) see blood DK's on top ten 2s or 3s team. Last time i checked they where 95% unholy and few frost.

Dies · 09/15/09, 1:36 PM

It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. You never see anything but Unholy in the top teams, so everyone specs unholy. You get good at unholy, and then everyone else plays it. Cycle keeps going.

As blood, I always beat an unholy dk 1 on 1 in arena. One of my favorite fights is mirror because we can survive so much longer with all of blood's self healing. I highly suggest trying blood for a little while to see how you like it before assuming that since the top teams right now are unholy, that unholy is the only viable spec.

Slider_1128 · 09/15/09, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dies

As blood, I always beat an unholy dk 1 on 1 in arena. One of my favorite fights is mirror because we can survive so much longer with all of blood's self healing.

I dont doubt it, I started as blood when i first hit 80 and was doing lots of BG's. You can out last an unholy dk, and alot of other classes, also less dying = more HK's = more honor points. But this was more about dmg, in arena you have a healer, your expected to do dmg. So i was curious how the dmg stacks up. Also in pvp there is alot of moving around, so using 2 runes a strike isnt as much of an issue. I know Blood has less GCD's to waste so running around in pvp would tend to favor the Unholy. So while blood has better survivablity, and could outlast unholy dk in 1 on 1. Unholy "seems" to have more utility, and the pet stun is something i dont know how i would go without. But if i could get same pvp dps with blood i might try giving up the utility for survivablity.

PS. I have a really bad comp, Disc priest and Ret pally.

Dies · 09/16/09, 2:47 AM

I don't think that my damage is necessarily any less. Maybe I'm just better at blood than unholy so it seems that way?

Another thing to consider, I'm using blood runes to do one of my main damaging attacks (that also snare) which leaves the frost/death runes available to chains of ice more often without sacrificing the dps.

Again, my main point is that I do enough damage and because of the self healing, can outlast other teams enough too.

knaw · 09/20/09, 4:56 PM

I just started doing 3's with a Disc Priest and Mut Rogue and am having alot of fun with my own spec.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...G,Rtd3eO,10433
I'm finding that DS hits as hard if not harder than OB so I switched around a little bit.
Any advice?

Auraelis · 09/21/09, 10:31 AM

knaw

I would take the point out of Annihilation and put it in Vampiric Blood, it would give you a greater benefit to have an extra 15% health and more health gained through abilities than 1% crit and a buff to an ability that you don't reall use.

Avery · 09/22/09, 10:27 AM

Alrighty, sorry for the delay in posting or replying, but I've found myself a spec that really works well with a Paladin/Warrior/Death Knight 3s team.

It's a vile comp I tells ya <.<;

3/55/13

Complete with the 2 slow furious weapons, I've been able to pull some retarded amounts of damage, and live for quite a bit if my healer is not preoccupied (of course).

The idea, of course, in such a team, is to go in, punch something in the face so hard their grand kids will feel it. In terms of using HC, I've found it most useful to make the blow their trinkets while we bust up someone hard (Granted, you will find cases where you will pop HC, and find your warrior friend lawlstorming and making it useless, be wary of that ._.)

So far, we've found one team that has fucked us again and again, and that's a Ret/Rogue/Disc team. We left with the inability to sit after each team.

Though, for any future reference for any dk/pally/war team, kill the rogue. If you can take down the rogue and keep him playing defensively, that shuts off a lot of their damage and can save you.

As well, does any one have any tips against RMP teams? We figure that we can punch a hole into the priest and then start on the rogue while they're either busy on me or on our warrior. Any tips are greatly appreciated.