Hm, we'd need more numbers to figure this out, but the best case scenario for Obliterate beating SS would be a 2k armor priest (about 10% physical mitigation) with 80 SR (15% mitigation on average). Anyone have the numbers to calculate the OB and SS for an Unholy DK in this case?

Edit:
I did a little math on this, and it seems even in the scenario that favors OB the most (clothie with SR), it would only do .5% more damage. If anyone is interested in the math, post here and I'll write it out when I get time...

I seem to enjoy unholy the best so far.

Currently i'm torn between 2 specs for Unholy and 1 for frost.

- [21/0/50]
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Pros: MoB, boneshield, perma pet, imp runetap, NotD- incase pet gets focused,
AMZ, Magic Suppression, all in all amazing mitigation and plenty of tools at your disposal + dispell resistence
Cons: No unholy aura (but do i need it since ret has own movement buffs), no toughness, no lichbourne, no RoR

- [10/11/50]
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Pros: same as above, + Lichbourne and Toughness+PaleHorse=sexy against CC's
Cons: same as above, No MoB, no RoR, no runetap -lose self healing utility and some %crit

- [20/51/0]
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Pros: Lichbourne, hungering cold, toughness, freezes/snares from chillbains etc. imp runetap
Cons: Loss of unholy perks... namely: no dispell reistence for diseases, shorter DG cooldown, less mitigation vs. casters, no ghoul etc, etc.


thoughts?

I'd be interested on seeing with math for OB and SS. Looks like I'll be making yet another spec change.

First spec - i also thought of that spec as a good one for a 2 dps 2s team, but I don't really like all the self healing stuff in comps with healers. I dunno why and maybe I will be wrong to go more utility/offensive.

Second spec - Does 2h weapon spec only affect physical attacks? Unholy spec doesn't use a lot of physical attacks. If so those points may be better spent in unholy could go with RoR. I don't really like anything past 2 points in blood for an unholy build either. With our survivability DKS are not a great target so the parry points are pretty wasted and I don't think bladed armor alone is worth spending the extra points in blood.

To my understanding any skill that has the "% of weapon damage" modifier would be modified by 2handed weapon spec.

I've come up with this spec for PvP as a Frosty and I'd like you guys to look it over and tell me what you think about it and what, if anything, I should change.

Here it is: Frost PvP

That is one of my concerns. Right now I am leaning towards a Frost/Unholy build that is heavily focused on defensive abilities. I'll be picking up acclimation for one, which is something I haven't seen in specs so far; correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it stacks with frost aura? I also plan to use glyph of death grip, so having the unholy reduced cooldown on it will help immensely. Longer disease durations is something I am still not 100% sure about, but if I am going unholy as my secondary I don't see much else place to put the points which could be anywhere near as useful. I don't have my exact spec worked out yet, but I'll be picking up virtually every defensive ability I can in the frost tree and the T1 dodge talent in unholy (since the other two don't do much for a frost spec). I'm planning to do 2's with a rogue as this spec, which is one reason I'm not 100% sold, and still thinking about possibly going blood instead of unholy to get rune tap. It's a tough decision!

I thought about the issue of diseases being dispelled without the resistance, but you have to think about it in terms of dealing with people who may be geared equally or better than yourself and who also have well made specs. Always prepare for those who might outgear you. In that situation, a 30% resistance to your diseases being dispelled isn't going to have a major effect. If they're geared well enough with the right attributes capped, such as Hit rating, they're going to blast straight through that resistance. Would it not be better to prepare yourself more defensively with a decent self heal every 30 seconds as well as pumping up your own white Dmg output for when your diseases ARE dispelled? If it were a higher %tage like 60-75, I'd say it'd be the better choice, but I don't see 30% helping enough to be worth passing up being able to heal yourself with what is somewhat equal to a pot every 30 seconds. Especially now that Blizz only lets us use 1 pot per battle. The self heal gives you a kind of loophole to that restriction. An advantage against those who are bound to it.

How about a hybrid PvP spec? I was messing around with some talent calcs and came up with: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

It combines Mark of Blood, Imp Rune Tap, Lichborne, Master of Ghouls, Consecration, and Bone Shield; all of which are fairly necessary I'd think. Good and defensive, designed to outlast while offering added snares and stuns. Comments/Feedback?

Nobody is going to walk around with +30% worth of hit rating.

Just for the sake of testing...I tested Mark of Blood today with a druid and learned more about the mechanic. Only direct attacks will trigger the heal.

Melee obviously does everytime. Moonfire will tick the initial hit, and then the dot will do nothing. Spells without an instant hit such as insect swarm do not trigger it at all. Starfall however triggered on each pulse of the spell.

Have you played a class that needs to dispel in PvP? Trust me those 30% resist talents have a massive effect on both mana and gcds.

I'm going to be running this 5s:

Arms Warrior
Ret Pala
BM Hunter
Resto Shaman
me, undecided

I'm thinking that blood may be very powerful here. Desecration is amazing but loses a lot of value when you have frost trap, abominable might and hysteria are also very powerful with those partners (probably used on the hunter, it doesn't effect his pet true, but with TBW and hysteria and bloodlust and full ilevel 200-226 pve gear he is going to be doing obscene damage and the target can be death gripped into a frost trap + hoj for him to wail on so he won't just be losed)

I'm using an incomplete 2/11/58 build right now and am really enjoying it. I've been doing some world PvP and just trying to level up. This is a very PvP focused build but I don't feel very gimped while questing because I have so much survivability.

However, I do have 3-5 points that can be moved around in the first 4-5 tiers of the unholy tree. For the sake of clarity I put them all in Necrosis in this build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

In game I actually have them split between anticipation and impurity. Where do you guys think I should put those points? I'm leaning toward 2 in anticipation and 3 in BCB but I wonder if I'll miss Impurity. I'm also seriously considering 5 in anticipation for more melee defense and more rune strikes but I hear they are nerfing Rune Strike

I'm just not so sure how I feel about desecration in PvP. Alot of people swear by it but for me it seems to last all of .5 seconds until someone reaches the edge and then its use has ended. The 12 yards is nice except that they start in the center so its really only 6 yards worth. I prefer to put those points into RoR for added damage all the time your diseases are up.

I played around with a hybrid unholy/blood build that took advantage of mark of blood and imp runetap, and I found mark of blood to be pretty overrated, and imp rune tap to be a godsend. I also revisited Anti Magic Zone and really enjoyed it for BG play. I think the AMS glyph would also be an amazing addition, but I'm not sure what glyphs I want to give up. I really like scourge strike for added damage and chaining disease especially on heavy targets, icy touch has been a staple for my runic power for sometime, and death n decay...irreplacable.

If only I could get a death strike glyph back in, that was a fantastic glyph.

As much as I really want to love blood and frost, I just keep gravitating back to unholy. If my ghoul is out, I feel like a juggernaut, hopefully they fix that bug soon.

In arena a lot of the utility of desecration lies in the fact that it sits there, on the ground, for 12 seconds, not in snaring the initial target. It's a smaller frost trap that'll be put up more frequently and with less oppurtunity cost.

This will be especially useful if you are being pillar kited.

Unholy presence is THE pvp presence. Nothing says "mmm runic power" and "I love eating clothies alive" like 1.0 second GCD. Frost presence and blood presence aren't good for pvp whatsoever.

Also, you don't want to get unholy aura JUST to increase your speed; I think the increase of party members is even more benificial, especially for healers.

Edit: My current DK is only 75 due to finals etc, but my experience comes from beta.

Hey guys, just wondering why everyone seems to pick BCB over Necrosis?

Me too! and I picked it...
It's very hard for me to figure out because the PvE DPS builds get all of those mid tier unholy DPS talents. All I can go by is the value per point towards DPS listed in the DK DPS Compendium. Frankly, I'm not sure that is a fair assessment though because they are based on clean rotations and constant DPS.

I'm leaning towards BCB because IF it procs I assume it would be a little more burst in a low burst build.

Not true at all, you should be changing to Frost Presence if you're ever getting focus fired by the other team, that extra armor and health help out a lot, not to mention the 5% less spell damage taken. Even in 1v1 situations where its a physical damage class I usually go straight to Frost Presence anyways for the armor boost, you can tell a huge difference from having 20k armor instead of 12k.

Okay, so it's situational at best. It also costs a frost rune and if you want to switch back to another presence it's gonna cost you a blood or unholy. Not worth it imo. We have other mitigation talents, rely on those.

I agree with Mactovera...everytime I'm engaged by a rogue, warrior, ret pally, feral druid, or enhance shaman my first thing I do is switch to frost and I utilize death strike in a wear down match and I've become MUCH more effective. Those fights before were all about IBF and bone shield outlasting..now I can sorta tank them down and let the gargoyle do the DPS.