MatsT

Is this linked to Icy Touch and not Frost Fever? The tooltip seems to indicate that it's Frost Fever, but i haven't notice it getting removed when frost fever gets dispelled...

 

axyl

COI does proc icy talons.. I however don't have icy talons in my build anyways.

 

Writhe

I like the idea but am not sure of its lacking higher frost talents.

You seem to have some at least a lot more pvp experience than me with the class and frost spec.

I'm looking at a similar build but heavier into frost
wowhead
The key is maxing rp gen from OB/DS, BCB, gargoyle (you will have more rp thanks to 10 rp extra from OB), OB will crit a lot and do good damage glyphed. The idea is to ditch PS as a necessity and do damage with OB. (Maybe use it as a dispel buffer / and of course hot killer.)

Will be trying the build out tonight and see how it feels. Could anyone else link a general frost pvp build people are using? or even a pve dps frost build I can alter for pvp?

I have read the rest of the thread and I am concerned about how much faith people put in epidemic. In an arena setting it will be rare even with vir. to see diseases last the full duration anyway, (at least I find my self chaining people more than I need to put FP up)

Ed/update: Tried it out without epidemic, horrible. Dps is also very low, even with nice crits.

I'm also confused about whats wrong with necrosis, at least in unholy builds it does a good amount of dps, I may be wrong but more than impurity. Could anyone explain its apparent uselessness? (I get most damage will come from other abilities and spells; however, once there is some resil. around dps comes more and more into play (think how combat rogues took over in season 1 due to the dps nature of arena out last games).

I may be way off base, if anyone has any thoughts, criticisms on it I would like to hear them. Also any advice of how to pvp with a frost build (still learning about frost builds in general hence my shoddy attempt at a spec). Note: OAPH is my godsend for herb gathering if I can keep it in a pvp build I would be stoked.

Who pulled the surger with the core hound?

 

Necropsy

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I'm going to mess around with that build.

But what stance do most of your frost pvpers stay in? Unholy or Blood?

 

Samurro

Frost and unholy, depens on what you are fighting against. Frost for melee, unholy for casters

 

Cronjob

Ended up with this build, which was something I saw on Arena Junkies. Seemed to work really well lastnight in BG's and in a quick 10 games of 5's we did.

44/27/0

Mages still give me the hardest time. How do you guys deal with the whole kite thing. They slow, then kite, I DG, they blink and from there its pretty much GG.

Also in regards to the post above me, why unholy presence against casters? With this build I've been staying in blood, if I do end up getting close enough to a caster they drop really fast, I hit some 6-9k shots on them followed by 3-4k white hits which ruined their day I'm sure. But that was rare most times the mages kept me at range.

Also something new I hadnt seen them do yesterday was start up with a silence on me. That gave them a huge advantage at the start.

 

MissnL1nK

Yes that is a big problem with our class. A silence can shut us down hard from a good mage. I typically just slow them until I get in close then wait for the blink, then I use COI. I try my best not to use COI until I see a blink.

My better smells like french toast.

 

• Lanky

Right now, everything is about burst, and about not dying to burst. Last night's lag fest arena showed us that.

While Bone shield is un-nerfed, I highly recommend abusing it. I am extremely difficult for one person to kill at the moment, and it basically takes a BM hunter to reliably do it, and I chalk that up to Bone-shield and about 430 resilience.

I am currently 50 / 21 Unholy Blood, for mark of blood and rune tap. So check that out if it interests you.
For frost, I've found the following build to be great for burst. and I will likely be switching over once I start to see more resilience on healers or players. Frost strike hits obscenely hard for a RP dump, its nasty.

as for Mages, best bet is to silence them first, as in right away, and close to melee. They die in about 3 good hits (or less), so you want to get those hits in as quick as possible. When they blink, Death Grip first, then COI.

 

thevidon

In 3's last night I found this was my biggest contribution to games against mages. We can absolutely force them to burn block right at the start of the game with a strangulate. Then we are basically useless against them and need to run with a partner who can take care of them.

 

wraxx

I am also running a 50 unholy 21 blood build and I felt it performed well. My biggest issue was rune management between defensive abilities like AMZ, Mark of Blood, Rune tap, and being able to dish out damage. My comp is a Arms War/Holy Pal/UH DK and our consistant problem was the insta kills on our warrior. There were also occasional times where our paladin became overwhelmed. In every match, I was the last one targeted.

This has led me to wondering about a deeper frost build. I think in a 3v3, hungering cold could have a tremendous impact, and the lower reliance on diseases also seems like it could become very useful. My concerns are, when my swirly bones are gone, does that mean I'm the new burst target? We faced several DKs last night, and all were unholy with the exception of one blood DK so I'm not sure how frost is really doing in the areans at the moment.

 

Cronjob

A few teams tried to burst me last night in our 5's and couldnt do it so they switched off. I burned everything I had but it screwed them up. I was running the Lankey build before and I really liked it. I might go back to it but I'm really liking this burst build I have now.

I put my diseases up, HS-HS-DeathChill- Oblit and if by chance that didnt kill them I ERW and go from there.

Lankey,

What glyphs are you using or suggest? Currently I have the DnD fear, extra range on strangulate, and IBF.

 

axyl

here's my experience last night as deep frost 51 and blood 20. I ran with a ret pally in 2v2 and I ran with a rogue in 2v2. Healer teams basically shut us down. You'd think our burst could go right through, but the heals are INSANE now. I got healed in a bg last night by a pally for 16k health.

Hungering cold was amazing in the arenas. against double DPS teams, we did fine. I found that if we went against melee and they targetted me first. we would win. Blade barrier I was parrying everything left and right. I did notice that the battles did not last long at all. Not longer than a minute and a half maybe.

Caster setups surprisingly gave us a really hard time. Granted we're both getting used to arena playstyle on these new toons. And I'm used to playing a priest, which I've been up in the 2200's each season with. Wasn't that hard as a disc priest though.

I'm thinking to do really well in the arenas, we're going to just need a good healer behind us.

I also decided at the end of the night to take advantage of the overpowered bone shield. So I respec'd to my old 50unholy 21blood build at the end of the night. We'll see how that build fares for today.

 

Ragedmunki

Has anyone figured out our gem stat priority? ie, how important is expertise in pvp and such.

 

• Lanky

I am using IBF, Bloodstrike, DnD.
You want your bloodstrikes to not absolutely suck ass, and the glyph is the only way to guarantee that, since all unholy builds take desecration.


Until they nerf both Mark of Blood and Boneshield, 50, 21 is the spec for arenas. Afterward, its going to be a different ball game, and I will likely end up 53é18 Frost Blood, with three strike glyphs.

 

Amera

How in god's name are you getting out-healed with a ret pally and rogue? Other than a paladin bubbling, a healer shouldn't even be able to get heals off before someone on their team is dead. Every one of you has a silence/CC that should be more than enough to kill anything before heals even get off. If you face a holy paladin team, just pop your defensive CDs and live long enough to blow them up the moment it drops.

 

Writhe

I do like the 50,21 spec (everything i love about unholy is present). I am still uncertain of desecration its only technically a 1-4 yard snare (you are at the center when it casts with lag the target could easily be out of it by the time they re hit with it. I prefer amz - you still need to explain people to stand in it, though.

I tried out the spec I mentioned above, and it failed pretty bad, yet to find someone with oblit glyph though, and my rotation was pretty horrible and ad hoc.

I'm trying out blood more tonight once I find that glyph. I liked its freedom with 4 death rune generation, although it isn't really when runes are popping off cool down it makes it very simple when 4 of them can be what ever I want. Maybe it makes things more complicated (in the fact you have more options); however, I like it.

Possible Blood spec.

Notes: I am human(trinket slots for health pot type trinkets), herb, alc, I really don't need rune tap other than maybe glyphed when my healer is silenced and under a chain lock down. Blood aura, after patch will re-evaluate its usefulness in pvp - probably still useless.

On Icy talons, coming from a warrior, I am not too worried about having that maxed. Could easily live with a 3/5 pointer.

Thoughts, if any?

Ragedmunki,
Stat priority could go either way. Going by what happened in season 1, stacking stam and resil gems will give you the survivability you need. Once you move more into pvp gear and have a full s5 set I would start stacking/enchanting for the offensive. For example rogues before 10k hp needed to stack stam to that point once there they could move for offensive.


Whats everyones thoughts on the pvp flask? I have been using them pretty much when ever I pvp. It offers 50 resilience rating (~82) or 1% crit reduction. Very handy and cheap for a one hour bg buff that actually lasts an hour thanks to it being a flask.

I have also been using it to get critical immune in lacking tank gear but thats a minor plus.

Who pulled the surger with the core hound?

 

axyl

yes.. paladins were the primary healers we ran into.. druids also caused quite a problem, even though plague strike removes HOTs... he stacked em on faster than i could take em off.. and then i'm not doing any damage.. also to keep a druid CC'd is pretty tough.. a 5 sec silence just doesn't seem like enough.

also this was in 2v2 not 3v3

 

• Lanky

Plague Strike is not worth using to chain remove hots. HoTs cannot heal through a chain of empowered rune weapon Scourgestrikes or Oblits.

 

polaer18

I am starting to make my arena teams and have been debating over comps for twos and threes.

My initial thoughts are going to three cause more dynamic, and so far i am liking my thoughts behind UH DK, SP, and UA lock.

Benefits i can see initially...

Almost all three are self healing through dmging abilities to one degree or another.

Lots of stackable debuffs that benefit all classes involved. (such as Ebon plague, Curses, etc)

Dk ability to spread his as well as the SP's diseases. Combined with the ease of lock multi dotting.

very strong anti casting combo, numerous silences combined with curse of tongues could shut down a healer or nuker for 20 seconds in perfect conditions.


Cons

Not too much protection in the form of BoP, pain suppresions etc.

almost no melee CC, excepting lock fears.

Would be very vulnerable to dispells and various disease removing tools (dis cleansing totem, abolish dis., etc)


Anyone else have thoughts on this comp or on a good twos combo?

 

Inaara

I did some arena on Tuesday, enough to get the deadly neck and called it. This was my build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft 10/52/9

Before ripping the build apart just stop while you're ahead. I was unfortunate enough to not have very much dps/pvp gear at all (2 savage 1 hateful and Malygos DPS neck) so I decided to go with a build that could cause the most confusion while still being able to burst down when it was time.

My team comp is as follows:
Feral Druid
Ret Pally
Myself
Holy Priest
Holy Pally

Strengths:
Imp DnD with Glyph - I found Glyphed DnD to be an absolute requirement as it's usefullness seems to know no bounds. Being able to effectively use it every 15 seconds even when the opposing team is LOSing is very strong. Add DG to the equation and on a lucky DnD proc you are able to burst down a player before the team even has a chance to react. We repeated this scenario througout the night. Against melee teams my DnD stayed on our healers the entire time which greatly hampered the melee's attempts to take em down. Add DG with a reduced CD of 25 to the equation and it was a lovely thing to see.

Chillblains - While some people argue for Desecration I find Chillblains to be infinitely more usefull. Being able to add a 30% slow to the entire group via Pestilence was very effective. Can it be dispelled? Yes. However someone dispelling it means a healer not healing or a dpser not dpsing for that time and it'll just go up again. If they spread out to reduce pestilences' effectiveness it only makes it easier to DG a player out of range. We already know that Endless Winter is practically a requirement so there's no point in discussing it.

Survivability - Putting yourself at the front of your group will often lead to an attempted focus fire. Not seeing a bone shield is a green light for most teams, and IBF takes your death out of the equation buying your team more time to find the right target. While it won't be as effective when the patch hits the same can be said for Bone Shield and having an extra 6 seconds of IBF is absolutely amazing. A smart rogue will try to get to the healer, your average rogue goes straight for the closest target and IBF makes their opener useless. Having UA and Lichborne dramatically increases your survivability as well.

Burst - As Lanky has stated multiple times Frost offers amazing burst potential in the form of Froststrike which makes RP Mastery an absolute must have for any frost build. Effective use of cooldowns (ERW + BT) offers an amazing chain of High damage attacks that can see a total of 4 Frost Strikes followed by 4 Obliterates and 3 more Frost Strikes. While that many strikes shouldnt be needed to kill a player it can also be used to draw attention away from a kill target that your team is focusing on. It's also important to remember that FS cannot be dodged, blocked or parried and goes through armor as it does frost damage.


Weaknesses:
Rune Tap - The lack of RT means 1 less way to keep yourself alive in a tight situation. I didn't go with it because I'm running with 2 healers. For 4/1 dps healer ratio 5 man I believe it is an absolute must and should also be in all builds for 2's or 3's teams.

AMZ - AMZ is such a strong ability and one that I wish I could have in every build. Unfortunately it isn't always useful. Facing full melee teams makes the ability a wasted 6 talent points and is why I will probably never go into Unholy. There are so many ways to interrupt casters (DnD, Strangulate, DG, HC) and Hungering Cold is alot more flexible.


Conclusion

I like the feel of this build and will most likely continue test it as my gear improves and the patch hits. While DK's have no stuns their abundance of abilities that can be used to confuse, seperate and lock down an opposing team will definetely have a huge impact on the arena community. DG owns, that is all.

 

grumpig

I've got a few questions about the 21/0/50 PvP build on arenajunkies. Wowhead - Talent Build

Why no Necrosis or Impurity? Arenajunkies justifies the no Unholy Aura with it having to draw from more important talents. I'm not quite Death Knight arena-savvy yet, and I'm curious as to why Necrosis and Impurity got left out.

 

• Lanky

Necrosis got left out because it sucks for PvP. Full stop.

Impurity gets left out because the per-point value you get from it is much smaller than things like 2H-weapon mastery or lower talents in the Unholy tier.

Also, that Arenajunkies spec is off the mark in several places. If you want to go 21/ 50, use this.

Not having unholy aura for your partners is also extremely silly, and I have no idea what the Arena junkies poster was thinking when he mocked that spec up.

 

axyl

Inaara,
I was thinking of a 5v5 team like yours, but with a Rogue instead of a Feral Druid.. the problem is finding reliable people that can all be on at the same time, and have good pvp gear.. I miss my old 5v5.. too bad 3 of them don't play anymore.. we were 2290 s3.

 

Inaara

I wouldn't be worried about gear at all right now. As I said I played those games in mostly PvE tankging gear! To be quite honest I think the team would be alot stronger with a pvp Fury Warrior replacing any of the three DPSers in the group. If you have to get 10 people for your arena team, do it and get some games in before the first round of points. Even if you get steam rolled at least you'll get something for it.

 

axyl

yeah.. I have points in 2v2.. but your right.. we really should be getting points from 5v5 as you get more.. I love your avatar pic btw Inaara