Samurro

The problem between arms vs. fury atm is that you can get MS debuff with fury too. That was the biggest advantage of arms over fury for pvp all the time, now thoose fury warriors can get that benefit too + swinging two 2hs, i think its out of the balance right now.

 

• LodeRunner

No, that's not the problem. Here's the fundamental problem stated in a clear, concise, logical way:

-Bloodthirst is an ability that scales directly tied to AP, not to weapons or anything. In raids, AP can reach phenomenal levels, but unbuffed it becomes very lackluster. Arena settings are the latter. Mortal Strike does not scale as well because it is tied to the weapon, meaning it has good performance in a setting with few or no buffs.

-Fury has traditionally had great sustained damage due to Flurry, providing a decent crit rate and ability to stay on the target. The entire point of resilience is to nullify that crit rate.

-Imp Hamstring, which stacks with the glyph, is absolutely invaluable in the fight to stay on your target. This goes hand in hand with my above point about time spent on target.

-Second Wind allows for a lot of healing and rage generation on those longer, drawn out fights. Right now, because damage is sort of out of control, matches are short so this is really a lesser point for the time being.

This isn't to say Fury doesn't have some things going for it. Whirlwind is a giant burst with a TG spec, especially when they change the glyph. Additionally, Bloodsurge will actually be useful in an arena setting since it won't be tied to crit Bloodthirsts.

 

Xav

As a prot warrior who played some 3v3 this week (just getting a feel for things), I'm not sure that's really true. First off, my teammates always had such absurdly high dps that this may be skewed. But anyway, the games consisted of this: I attack a healer, and stick on it, and lock it out. The healer is completely incapable of doing anything for ~10 seconds (often longer), and we kill it. The only healers that had any chance were paladins, due to bubble.

I think a prot warrior with a specialized gearset (basically, full strong dps gear, and mine isn't so great right now) should be able to kill a healer with all of their lockouts. I intend to play prot exclusively in arena, unless I find it simply isn't going to cut it eventually.

 

Riot

Thoughts on TG v. MS?

I'm going to start trying TG for 2s arenas now. A bladestorm build is strong, but I don't think it puts out enough damage for it to be effective - once BS/Reck are down, Warrior damage is easily heal-able.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

Dollar

TG is definitely viable. The #1 sham/war team is TG (fucking KT axe) and we're tied for #3 right now as TG. We haven't fought any mirror matches in our some 170ish games but we are way past any other shaman/warriors in our Battlegroup so I don't think we will. I couldn't really tell you why it's better since I am the shaman on the team but it seems like sometimes he just completely destroys someone, with Bloodlust and windfury when I get a chance to drop it, sometimes he'll get on the target that I'm tanking and I'll ask "Why aren't you killing the healer?" or something like that and he'll be like "Uh dude he's already dead." He completely shreds paladins and we've had a few die before they could get a chance to bubble. Yeah low amounts of resilience are probably to blame for that so it's going to be interesting to see how it pans out when everyone gets more pvp gear. In all of the matches that we've fought against bladestorm warriors, I could pretty much pillar hump for hours without dieing and I haven't even hit 600 resil yet.

The one team we are having a lot of trouble with is Unholy DK/Holy Paladin. My warrior can barely get to the paladin because he just pillar humps with the DK constantly chains of icing and constantly death gripping. When there are DK's that know how to peel it just seems very hard for us to get anywhere. I'm thinking we are going to have to play an outlast battle with my warrior on the DK, I'm just wondering if anybody has tips.

"Oh he's a sad little man? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?"

 

Riot

Right, my own experience as War/Sham, has so far been that I'm pretty much completely unable to put any pressure on healers without assistance from my shaman. From previous seasons, that's a big difference where I used to be able to put some kind of pressure, but nowadays...just not at all.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

• Lanky

I won't pretend to know much about how to: warrior in arenas, but I can comment on DK peels, and warrior targetting for you. I'd advise not to put your warrior on the DK if he has a healer of any kind. He will Chains you every 8 seconds or so, catch your partner eventually with a Grip and the opposing team will try to blow him up, either DK alone (not all that scary), or with some shock and judgement help from his Paladin (actually scary).

Alternatively, throw hamstrings on the DK when you are near him, and if one sticks rush (but don't intercept) the other player, hopefully your partner can slow them down some for you, or you two can manage to dispel chains. He will peel you with Death Grip most likely. Now Intercept. When warriors Intercept before I grip, I can grip them back to me and hold them still for a long long time, wasting at least 3 dispel GCDs minimum, assuming your healer has no pressure. If your healer is a Shaman or Druid, you are now screwed.

Until they change Boneshield and Ice Bound Fortitude, you dont want to focus a DK as a Warrior / HealerX team unless you can damn well guarentee somehow that he will drop over. You want to take on his buddy, even if that buddy is a holy paladin, and make the DK blow precious frost runes to peel you off.

As for Holy Paladins kiting pillars, maybe try to blow his bubble and fear him off of it if you get a chance? Otherwise, stick to hamstring, and take those few seconds between Hand of Freedom CD and Hamstring coming off to pressure. Shamans are really awful for holding a Paladin in place, and unfortunately you are going to have to get really inventive to get the paladin away from the beloved pillar. But I do know focusing the DK is what they want you to do.

 

yojoe

Is it worth going over 5% hit? seeing as a lot of classes have talents that reduces chance to be hit.. also, how much expertise (if any) should you aim for in pvp?

 

Deci

A few quick questions for everyone else messing about with arms in pvp. Im mainly interested in which stances people are spending their time in (Tried PvP arms and since the focus of the tree seemed moved to Battlestance I tried that, but that didn't seem wise given the fact that intercept is in the berserker stance). Warrior gameplay seems extremly hacky when you constantly gotta watch for gib attempts on you and the same time maintain pressure on the opposing team.

 

Dollar

Yeah I am the shaman on the team. Today we got 3 Holy/DK teams, all were a pain in the ass. The first one had a blood DK and the Paladin was holy but he still had repetance. The paladin dpsd me a lot and we ran him oom but we still had a lot of trouble bring him down with the DK spamming chains and death grip. He fucked up and I grounded one of the death grips with the pally at around 30%, he got down to 6% at which point he bubbled and I got a crit frost shock for the win.

The next 2 were in Nagrand and were really frustrating, the DK was always on my warrior constantly chaining him and death gripping him. What annoys me is that the DK was a horrible player, he didn't mind freeze me ONCE during the entire match and he constantly death gripped my grounding totem. He also wasn't even using a pvp trinket which probably contributed to both of our wins. The pally also had horrible pvp gear, he had around 15k health while i was at 21k. Even so both games were really close ones, the first one the pally rocket booted away to drink right after my warrior got chained and we just said fuck it and he went on the DK, I got a quick hex off on the paladin and it was GG. The next one we just got lucky and bursted the Holy down.

This comp is really frustrating but it's one of the only ones that we can't do consistently. The only thing I can really think to do is get a hex/fear off on the DK hopefully long enough that chains falls off and we both nuke the paladin and I hopefully ground the death grip that the DK is probably queuing up. This is probably the only time that I would actually want to fight a team on orgrimmar arena so the paladin would be forced to get off the pillars for at least a couple seconds every match. I don't know if a mana battle is winnable even though the warrior can still do decent damage with a 2h/shield out and I can rocket boots away and ground the death grip and hopefully get a full drink off. The problem is there isn't much stopping the paladin from doing the same thing, even without rocket boots, while I'm drinking. Thanks for the tips though, I'll send them along to my warrior.

"Oh he's a sad little man? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?"

 

Elendril

Against DKs it seems like you need to make the best use of all of your movement abilities to protect from peels, which takes some help from your partner setting up good positioning for Intervene. It also seems like Heroic Fury is a very good option for on-demand EA and Intercept reset. I haven't actually tried it, though - does Heroic Fury break slowing effects or just immobilizes?

 

gia

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can track the cooldown of Sacred Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft ? Ideally I'd like to be able to time my yellow attacks so that my rage generation doesn't get owned, do I just save rage and dump it as soon as the buff goes up or is there a better approach?

It only breaks immobilizing effects, it does not work against chains of ice. Heroic Fury is quite good vs DKs though, I have been making good use of it against DK/Holy. Intercept -> Heroic Fury -> Death Grip -> Intercept -> Blessing of Freedom. The last part is crucial to deny the peel as DKs will always follow up Death Grip with Chains, so I can't really help with advice for Warrior/Shaman.

 

• Lanky

Doesn't the new Shaman cleanse (purify spirit? Cleanse Spirit?) hit magic effects? Poof, chains is gone.

After patching, I think a fair number of DKs will switch to 2H frost spec when pairing with Holy Paladins, for increased burst, and tricks at range. In that case, aim to be getting dispels of the snare from Frost Fever too, since it slows for 30% in that spec.

 

Lithose

No, it is curse, poison and diseases.

Only two classes can dispel DK snares, priests and paladins.

 

• Lanky

I assume the Warlock felpuppy can also chow down on chains with Devour Magic, making two and a half classes in PvP that can do it :P

 

Mearis

Warlocks exist in PvP?

<manly> then my sister calls and proposes the one thing that has never before occured in my entire life

 

• Lanky

Naw, I think I've seen one above 1600, thus 2.5 classes, and my sarcasm. I guess I could have been even more blatent and just said 2 classes still. Bah. Gear out your Deadly set, cap up, and ride it out until they change the burst. Not much else to do.

 

nokta

The problem that I have found with fury is having to sit in berserker stance to do damage.

Spec arms and make sure to get Unrelenting Assault. Queue for a bg or duel a rogue. Go sword and board, pop shield block, and spam revenge. As you might have found out, you can mitigate almost all damage and put out a ton.

As far as spike damage goes, I think arms takes the cake as well. Here's a screen cap on a target dummy of me doing around 8000dps with a lucky RNG streak in my pvp gear (450~ resil). Most spikes are around 3200-4000.
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4256/dpznp9.jpg

My pally and I got to 1750 first week and haven't been able to play since due to family stuff and holidays.

edit: The food buff I had was for 30crit and as I just noticed, I didn't have battle shout up. I'm curious as to what it would have been with it.

 

Riot

Okay, checking in again after playing around as both Arms and Fury.

I think Fury is better than Arms right now, for a few reasons:

1) Controlled Burst, Not RNG:

Line up Death Wish, Recklessness, and any other cooldowns you like to get three crits - Bloodthirst - Slam - Whirlwind. This will take most healers down to 80% or better, at which point you interrupt and finish them.

2) Heroic Fury

Reset your intercept for an additional stun. In ideal situations, you get to use this to both break a snare, and reset your intercept cooldown. A double intercept neatly counters most peeling abilities like Disengage, Death Grip/Chains of Ice, etc.

3) Higher Sustained Damage

Sadly, healing debuffs matter very little right now when it's so easy to take someone from 100->0.

There are other nice things too, such as being able to wield a two-hander and shield in Defensive Stance, etc, that are minor but pleasant. I can't really say I miss Arms at all right now, given the state of PvP. I will miss 10K SDExecutes, but Fury right now just gives much more control.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

gia

This has been my experience as well, after playing the first week as Bladestorm and the second week as TG. Arms simply does not have the sustained damage to put anyone under pressure besides during Bladestorm or with the random SD procs when you have full rage. I even had Taste for Blood and Unrelenting Assault and would overpower at every chance and was often basically quite close to a full pve rotation (except for slam) and it just couldn't cut it.

As TG the only things I feel missing are Second Wind and bladestorm, which are both useful against mage teams and double dps teams in general. Though against healer/dps I feel I have a much better chance with TG. My experience is mostly for 2v2 though, I haven't had a chance to play 3v3 yet since I respecced and don't really plan on playing 5v5 as it is completely unfun.

 

• landsoul

I totally agree with Rioht. I used a Standard TG build that picked up 3/3 Blood Craze, Piercing Howl, Heroic Fury, and Furious attacks. And I have had measurable success. I don't believe TG is for the 1500 bracket. It's no Mutilate Rogue or Unholy DK yet, but it's at least workable at the moment.

Comments on Arms:
Bladestorm - you can just run away from it. I don't think it helps define the tree in PvP. I've also had many times in BG's and arenas where an arms warrior would use it on me and I would just DPS him down inside his bladestorm and he couldn't do anything to get out of it.

Sudden Death - This is an arms warrior's biggest weapon at the moment. It's easy to sit at 100 rage most of the match and wait for SD to proc and then hit auto a few times getting health down to 80%-60%, recklessness and crit someone for 9k then line up a 4k MS and kill them. It's random though and you have to have opportunity to use it.

Improved Hamstring - May be useful for longer matches where movement and strategy are involved, but most matches are totally zerg lately.

Sustained damage - terrible

Comments on Fury:

Bloodthirst and Blood Craze: 6% health returned after receiving a crit, 6% health returned after landing 3 hits after a bloodthirst (3.0.8) is pretty substantial. Pair this with enraged regeneration and you can literally tank someone to death using shield block or spell reflect depending on your opponent. I've tanked and killed Death Knights, Mages, Hunters, Warriors, and Shamans from very little life and little cooldowns whereas if I was arms It would not have been possible.

Controlled Burst: You can end the game instantly with a well timed Deathwish, Recklessness, Whirlwind, Heroic strike, Bloodthirst combo when their defenses are down.

Heroic Fury: I absolutely love this talent. I no longer get handled by mages or druids. In fact, if they try to waste their time rooting you they are just dead. Also, it can be used to lockdown healers very nicely.

Sustained Damage and Furious Attacks: This is the area where TG will really shine. Once the games become longer with newer survivability, this is where we may come out ahead. Furious attacks is not that great but its a thrown bone that compliments our nice sustained damage. But what do I know, it's only week 2.

In 2v2, I feel that TG will have an easier time outperforming arms in fights that don't require too much gymnastics ala 15 second intercept/Imp HS. I've only seen 1800 so far, but its only week 2 and My druid simply can't last some of the double DPS teams yet. The damage is too high and there isn't enough stamina or resilience to live through a good stun/silence. I'm just hoping that further down the road our advantages will start becoming apparent with the better PvP gear on the healer. I also think that damage will not go higher than it currently is now and healing will go up, and with new survivability talents it might be totally okay to wear some PvE gear even in high rated matches down the road.

In the new patch also, one could afford to drop precision completely, and therefore pickup points to max out enrage for another DPS boost in PvP. The build I thought of was this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Visit my Youtube Channel for an increasing selection of warrior videos, including Undermanning, PvP, and LK Raids:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LandsoulWoW

 

MatsT

Since death knights that are frost can apply Frost Fever with Chains of Ice, it's safe to say that they're not gonna use Icy touch, or even specc in Chillblains.

Staying on a holy paladin is currenty a nightmare. Freedom+pillarkite+holy shocks is almost impossible to keep up with, and if they have any sort of peel support, you're out of luck. I don't have that much knowledge of this particular matchup, but shouldn't a rage-feeded warrior be able to go toe-to-toe with a death knight quite easily. Mortal strike puts you way ahead in the mana battle. I suppose the issue is that they have a pet that can keep the healer in combat, while their paladin can drink more easily.

 

Riot

Paladins win every mana battle, hands down. They do not go OOM. Mortal Strike doesn't cause a paladin to go OOM with:

Illumination, DF, DI, DP.

The best thing that Arms has is Unrelenting Assault, for going into D-Stance and spamming Revenge nowadays.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

ZeuZ

Im currently TG for arenas and loving it, you can do a pretty nice on call burst which comes in very handy. My main dilemma is, do I keep the Beserking enchant on my mainhand (jawbone) or go to the Massacre enchant. What bothers me is with the amount of burst going around and the reduction of armor you get when Berserking procs. I already have Massacre enchanted on my offhand (Inevitable Defeat) and im leaning towards going Massacre on the mainhand aswell, something about having a static 220 straight ap and not having to worry about the armor reduction makes me tingle.

 

• LodeRunner

Berserking isn't even worth it in PvE because of the loss of AP from Armored to the Teeth, and it would be detrimental to your success against physical classes in PvP. Then again, I've been apparently dead wrong so far on how various specs would fare in Arena settings so take what I say with a grain of salt.