XI-

Arms DPS is low enough and their weakness exploitable enough that it would be inferior to things like dk/hunter/pal, and lock/dk/pal, among other things, and you'd still be weak against classic comps like RMP which dominate the warrior with CC.

e: If you wanted to run a warrior in 3s running as fury with 15s intercept+heroic fury would be much better. Fury MS isn't predictable but you'd be better off doing a lot of damage on 2 targets 1 with full time MS from the hunter/rogue and the other with moderate MS uptime from the fury warrior. They still haven't changed the fundamentals that DKs are all conquering death bringers, and Hunter CC is even worse next patch (imho) the entrapment change is a net hunter buff.

 

Riot

Because it's very situational and successfully executing it is going to be a bit harder in actual practice.

Putting a Warrior on a Mage is lost cause. I think the only classes we'll get caster overpower off reliably is going to be warlocks, paladins, priests, and MAYBE shaman. Riptided LHW's are probably not possible to get it in off of. Druids are going to mostly stick to instants, mages will probably just CC spam you anyway ( so that's not going to change much ).

Basically what Xi is also saying is that Warrior damage right now is pretty low - right now Arms DPS is basically laughable. It doesn't require a peel or any defensive reactions, because if a Warrior is attacking a shielded target, we're not doing any damage really. Even as Fury breaking a shield can be difficult.

The rage on shielded targets should help a lot actually, so I'm going to withhold on statements like "Arms is still pointless" until after we see those changes in actual play and practice.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

• LodeRunner

My predictions have been dead fucking wrong so far this season. I have no credibility so I'm going to go ahead and say it: Arms is still pointless.

 

Alighieri

You are correct sir, my ability to read the fine print in talents is somewhat questionable.

Regardless, I feel that the talent is still highly useful in a given 3v3 arena setting. The war's job in an arena is 1) DPS/Pressure and 2) Peeling. Keeping in mind that OP is now essentially usable every CD, the talent just adds that much more pressure to a player that the war sticks too. Even if the OP doesn't *interrupt* the cast, the use of a 20% extra dmg OP combined with Impale, combined with MS at the very least still does the job of adding pressure. Especially if the war is on a healer - the healer has one extra thing to watch for whenever he tries to cast. Throwing a heal into a 75% reduction is rough.
My biggest concern with the talent, however, is that I would feel that I'm wasting a good deal of my effectiveness if I'm not on a caster of some kind. Killing a rogue over a priest now seems like a terrible choice, whereas before I could assess the larger threat and go from there.

 

• Juice

We should all have the problem of great new talents giving us more viable ways to spend our time in arena. If this is a concern for you, spec prot and these extra considerations won't be a problem.

 

mdokane

Arms already did pretty well against rogues with a primary attack that cannot be parried or dodged. If you still want to sit on the rogue, by all means, you now have a 10 second (glyphed) charge and you are pvping in the stance with 100% rend uptime capability.

 

dysent

I'd expect in 2v2/3v3, the new overpower would be primarily used for dpsing a healer who would otherwise continually LHW/flash themselves. Especially paladins, because their instant cast options are not as significant.

It feels like blizzard is trying to make us the class who you use to open on a healer with; get them healing at -75% on themselves, give them -20% armor or break their immunities, etc.

 

Annihilus

We were actually discussing this a little in the 3.1 thread. If OP was like MS where you just attack and apply the debuff that would be one thing, but holding onto the OP proc and waiting doesn't seem to be very Optimal. I think we still need a Pummel for Battle Stance. It obvious that Bliz wants us in BS so we should have the utility to stay in it.

What are some of the specs looking like so far? I was messing with a calculator and it seems that we're only going deep enough into Fury for Piercing Howl?

 

blackhand0114

That's about all you can afford, the rest (60 points) goes into the now even more bloated arms tree.

 

Sanbu

New PTR Build:

 

Alighieri

A question to pose to all you war pvp'ers: How would you define our role in a typical 3v3 arena setup? Is our sole reason for existing to debuff with MS? Are we used as pressure? DPS? Of course, these are all bits and pieces of the whole, but when you design a 3v3 team, and include a warrior into the mix, why do you choose to include him at all (besides the fact that you actually have one) over, say, a hunter who can equally fulfill the same role? Essentially the question is thus: In the EJ mindset of min/maxing cycles, what do you feel is the most effective use of a war in the arena setting, and, with that in mind, does the warrior do that job better than any other class?

 

Bal

With the new changes to Arms and the appeal of staying in battle stance over beserker (ArP, Juggernaught, Shattering Throw, OP, etc.), is it unfair to want the PvP set bonus to affect Charge as well? It seems pretty pointless to me atm to have a 4-piece bonus that affects only one ability in a specific stance.

 

broddo

edit: Sorry, posted in the wrong thread.

 

kraftykiller

We will have to wait and see how the current arms changes, mostly shattering throw and juggernaut, play out; but having an interupt in battlestance is essential to making it a stance worth being in (bash doesn't count for obvious reasons). I think battlestance also needs an additional attack that can be controled (fury has BT and WW) as opposed to OP which is too RNG.

 

kraftykiller

It's kinda silly to say spec prot when fury is the spec that's going to get you into the higher ratings. If you have the PVE prot gear, then it would defintely be a fun spec to play.. but seems to me most players in arena aspire to the higher rankings.

 

kraftykiller

I won't complain if blizz gave charge a 4 piece bonus of some type but don't forget charge gives you rage while intecept uses it up. Just being able to charge while in combat is going to be huge and if the stance changes go through (for good and bad) you will be able to intercept.. burn your rage and back to battle stance for a charge (CD probably be ready after you get off a couple attacks in zerker stance).

 

XI-

How is it RNG when you can take the talents and be able to use OP whenever you want provided your target has rend?

 

Riot

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Probably my talent build for next season as Arms.

Glyphs:

Major
Hamstring (definitely, must-have as the only peel option for Warriors)
Mortal Strike
Bladestorm

Other major possibilities: Sweeping Strikes, Rapid Charge, Rend, in that order for me.

Minor:
Battle/Charge/Mocking Blow

Thoughts? Anger Management hopefully isn't necessary. Strength of Arms vs. Iron Will, I think IW wins out - with the Orc racial for me I could go without it, but getting HoJ and Kidney shot down to 4 seconds is pretty sweet.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

Alighieri

@ Riot

Is there something I'm missing about the Mocking Blow Glyph? Why would you want that in PVP?

*I mean, as opposed to the Bloodrage glyph

 

Riot

Whoops, thanks. Bloodrage/Charge/Mocking Blow.

The reason Mocking Blow is better is because it gives a very real damage boost for Mocking Blow. 25% more damage is a touch more damage for basically no cost. You really don't need the Glyph of Battle Shout.

Overslept, / So tired. / If late, / Get fired. / Why bother? / Why the pain? / Just go home / Do it again. - The Commuter's Lament
Norman B. Colp

 

mdokane

I'm not in much of a position to criticize anything pvp related as I have played less than 20 games in arena this season, but I would think the gcd you might need to waste on re-shouting at 2 minutes (perhaps durring a damage push) would be far more valueable than an 82.5 damage increase on a skill I can count on one hand how many times I've used in pvp. But you will be in battle stance exponentially more in 3.1 than ever before so I could easily be wrong, in any case we're talking about deck chairs on the Titanic as it relates to missing the iceberg.

 

Annihilus

In another thread the 21Crit 3% Crit damage meta was recommended as being the main meta-gem. I somewhat disagree with that, because that means you have to put the 15Stam / minor speed enchant on your boots. To me it seems that for 3.1 Arms, going with the Swift AP / + speed meta and Icewalker (hit / crit) would be best. 150 extra HP is really nothing for arena anyway, and having to put one less +hit piece into your pvp gear seems more optimal. Or, Assault to Boots is also a good option and seemingly better option to 15stam. Thoughts?

Also, regarding ArP, anybody have any graphs or information that shows the benefit of ArP vs. STR side-by-side? Theoretically gemming almost full ArP seems to be the best.

 

Seife

 

Annihilus

That's some good information. I read through some other posts and I can't sort the BS from the good posts, so I'm confused about itemization. ArP seems like the way to go but only if you have a GT. If that's true and one cannot get a GT should we itemize STR then? If that's true then why is ArP even worth it? Being that GT is only active for a short amount of the actual match, then won't all your other ArP items be worthless for the majority of the match? I'm sure ArP is better with GT but I can't imagine that ArP'a value is completely negated without it?So basicaly is STr the way to go if you're not lucky in Naxx?

Also, I asked before about meta gems and the response was the 21crit meta. If that's the best then it would also require the 15 stam and speed enchant. That doesn't seem to be the best combo. I plan on wearing my Melancholy boots over hateful or deadly goods for the ArP Stats. I have Icewalker on them which also provides a little crit and would pair that with the Ap / speed meta. The 150 hp from the enchant just doesn't seem worthwhile.

 

dbrocksyoursocks

@ Riot

I'm wondering, you took Improved charge instead of taking Strength of Arms, compared my build, which originally looked like this.

How good is Improved Charge compared to Strength of Arms?

For example: If you have 1600 stamina, 4% stamina will make up for a 640 hit points, and it will scale with Blessing of Kings.
Improved charge, will give you an additional 10 rage on your charge, that means that every time you charge, you'll gain 25 rage which is not enough to instantly Mortal Strike. It will however be enough to instantly Mortal Strike when you use bloodrage first (or right after). But so is the normal charge with using bloodrage and waiting 5 seconds to charge your target.

Is an increased 10 rage gain from charge, which you will use about every 30 seconds, better then a passive ~600/700 health gain, 4 expertise and 4% strength?

Also, how often do you use Mocking Blow? Till now, I've actually never used it, and honestly, I actually I forgot I had the ability. Is the 25% on an instant weapon attack worth the additional GCD to refresh your shorter battle shout?
Then again, like I said, I've never used the ability really, so I'm wondering how good it is, looking at it's rage cost, damage and cooldown.

EDIT: At AJ they mention that 'no rage from absorbs' is getting fixed in 3.1. Can anyone confirm this? I've been reading some blue's and as far as I know they weren't sure if they could get it in for 3.1.