Simple question: What are the base miss % for melee and spell misses in pvp? There is a lot of discussion happening right now within the pve community about the various levels of hit required to not miss spells or melee attacks, has anybody done any testing to see if the pvp values have changed since The Burning Crusade?
Simple question: What are the base miss % for melee and spell misses in pvp? There is a lot of discussion happening right now within the pve community about the various levels of hit required to not miss spells or melee attacks, has anybody done any testing to see if the pvp values have changed since The Burning Crusade?
Hit Rating
While melee classes still have the usual 5% hit cap that they need to strive for, casters have it a bit different in Wrath of the Lich King. The expansion brought a few notable changes to spell hit for casters, most importantly the fact that it is now possible to overcome the previous 1% universal chance to resist. With this change, along with the fact that all racial resistance bonuses have changed from a resistance bonus to that school of magic (ie +10 shadow resist), to a flat chance to resist a spell from that school (ie +2% chance to resist shadow spells), casters need to re-consider this along with their available talents to determine proper gearing and gemming.
Almost every race now has a 2% spell resist bonus to a certain school of magic. For example, Taurens and Night elves with 2% nature resist bonus, Undead and Draenei with 2% shadow resist, and Blood Elves with a 2% resist bonus to all schools. Almost every caster class now has access to similar 3% spell hit from talents, meaning most casters will still want to gear and/or gem for an additional 3% spell hit to cover not only the last 1% from base resist, but also the other 2% from racial resistance bonuses.
Hybrid melee/caster classes such as Death Knights, Enhancement Shamans, and Retribution paladins also need to keep this same information in mind, although the new system of +hit being universal for melee and spells helps here a lot, making 6% hit not only much more attainable but also very useful at the same time.
You can find hit rating bonuses on a lot of gear, especially drops from Naxxramas, but if you happen to need to gem for it, you can use Rigid Autumn's Glow (+16 hit), Precision glove enchant (+20 hit), or Icewalker boot enchant (+12 hit/crit).
That's from Serrenia at WoM.
"Oh he's a sad little man? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?"
In most cases as a caster, you want 6% hit to eliminate almost all resists. Even as a healer, you can generally overcome this with gear/gems.
When you're talking about fighting against Balance (or 30/0/40 +1) druids however, you will require 10% to hit with nature spells, which is a little on the absurd side. I find it sort of odd that they did away with RNG talents and procs like mace stun or stun/silence resist, yet then went on to change the various racials to miss chance and also left balance of power unchanged. I'd much rather see such talents/abilities changed to reduction in damage taken, even if it meant buffing them a bit. Losing a game due to having a random 1 in 25 wind shocks not land due to a passive ability for which the counter goes above and beyond what I'd call reasonable gearing (especially as a healer) is silly. The fact that they scrapped the old Nature's Guidance talent on top of this is just salt in the wound.
While doing quite a few Arenas/BGs today, I got about 10 misses while having 5% to hit.
Some of those were on Night Elves (-2% hit), a Frost DK (-3% hit), and the others were on Arcane mages (have a temp -hit buff).
So the melee hit cap is still 5%, but with a few exceptions.
Horde Paladins with the proper spec have it pretty good on spells, you have 4% base resist, 2% from Race, and 4% from talents.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
If you think something has changed perhaps you should test it instead of making a post asking for others to test it for you.
I will do this, i just wanted to be sure the work hasn't already been done. I didn't want to waste my time testing something that has already been tested, and a conclusive answer found.
Almost every caster class now has access to similar 3% spell hit from talents, meaning most casters will still want to gear and/or gem for an additional 3% spell hit to cover not only the last 1% from base resist, but also the other 2% from racial resistance bonuses.
If this were possible, it would be a tedious thing to verify since it takes a lot of trials to say that you can't miss. But if you grab the nearest belf and equip your raid hit cap gear you'll see this isn't true. It took me a full 4 casts of arcane missiles to get a pair of spell misses from the gnomish racial. A weekend of running battlegrounds with +6% hit rating showed me a lot more spell misses than zero -- always against blood elfs (the other horde races don't resist mage schools).
I have no concrete test results for the night elf racial Quickness.
It appears that racial -hit talents were applied in the wrong order, so regardless of how much hit you had you could never go above 98% against the races that have -2% hit racials.
I would think that melee would chose to strive for 7% instead of 5. That is of course, unless you're fine with having a 2% miss rate on Night Elves. Even before it was "fixed", 7 was the number i was constantly hearing thrown around.
So now that the patch is out, we should be able to overcome racial -hit% with gear (I'll assume this is working). The remaining question is: can you overcome -hit% talents with gear?
For example: if I have 6% hit, do I have a 4% chance to fail psychic scream on an undead rogue with Heightened Senses and a 2% chance to fail on a gnome rogue with the same talent? Or do I have a 4% chance on both (because you can't overcome talented -hit%)?
List of all the miss-increasing racials and talents:
Dwarf - Frost Resistance - 2% Frost miss
Night Elf - Quickness - 2% melee/ranged miss
Night Elf - Nature Resistance - 2% Nature miss
Gnome - Arcane Resistance - 2% Arcane miss
Draenei - Shadow Resistance - 2% Shadow miss
Undead - Shadow Resistance - 2% Shadow miss
Tauren - Nature Resistance - 2% Nature miss
Blood Elf - Magic Resistance - 2% spell miss
Death Knight - Frigid Deathplate - 3% melee miss
Druid - Balance of Power - 4% spell miss
Mage - Arctic Winds - 5% melee/ranged miss
Paladin - Divine Purpose - 4% spell/ranged miss
Rogue - Heightened Senses - 4% spell/ranged miss
Warrior - Improved Spell Reflection - 4% spell miss
Required hit rating (disregarding talents such as Precision):
Melee classes:
Minimum hit rating: 164 (5%) against most classes/specs
Maximum hit rating: 328 (10%) against a Night Elf Death Knight with Frigid Deathplate or any Mage with Arctic Winds
Caster classes:
Minimum hit rating: 105 (4%) against most classes/specs
Maximum hit rating: 263 (10%) against something like a Dwarf Rogue with Heightened Senses or a Tauren Druid with Balance of Power (many possible combinations)
Hunters:
Minimum hit rating: 164 (5%) against most classes/specs
Maximum hit rating: 361 (11%) against a Night Elf Rogue with Heightened Senses
Help needed:
1. Confirmation that the PvP base miss rate for melee and ranged attacks is still 5% (since PvE base miss rate went down to 8%, from 9% in TBC)
2. Confirmation that miss-increasing talents can be mitigated by hit rating
3. Any missed (pun intended) racials/talents (abilities?) from the list
Help needed:
1. Confirmation that the PvP base miss rate for melee and ranged attacks is still 5% (since PvE base miss rate went down to 8%, from 9% in TBC)
2. Confirmation that miss-increasing talents can be mitigated by hit rating
3. Any missed (pun intended) racials/talents (abilities?) from the list
1. Yes, I have 5% hit in my PvP gear and I never missed except for those exceptions (Frost Mages, 22 Ret Pallies (on Judgement) NE, etc.).
2. Patch notes say so, but I don't have enough hit to confirm.
3. No, you have everything listed.
Has anyone else noticed an issue with defensive dispel resist since this most recent patch? On a few occasions (It's happened 3 times if I remember correctly) I have had resists on defensive dispels, both on myself and on teammates in arena, despite being hit capped. This has only occurred for me when attempting to defensively dispel magical debuffs from mages.
It appears that racial -hit talents were applied in the wrong order, so regardless of how much hit you had you could never go above 98% against the races that have -2% hit racials.
The more I think about this "fix", the more I dislike it. It devalues these racials for PvP, especially for blood elfes, because if they can be mitigated, they will be mitigated. Their pure existence dictates a new spell hit cap in pvp, just because you can't risk a bad rng. In the end this means, that virtually all races now have the blood elf racial, without actually having it.
On the other hand, it forces your opponent to spend item points on hit rather than more offensive stats.
How many focus on capping their hit in pvp? I can see it being important at extreme ratings where both teams play near perfectly and a 2% chance to miss could mean the difference between win and loss, but I don't think your average arena dweller will consider max-capping hit their priority.
On the other hand, it forces your opponent to spend item points on hit rather than more offensive stats.
Exactly, that's what I said. It forces them to spend their item points on hit, instead of other stats. But this force is also present, if you are for example an orc, because you could also be an blood elf. That's what I meant, when I say that now virtually all classes have the blood elf racial, even if they don't.
The more I think about this "fix", the more I dislike it. It devalues these racials for PvP, especially for blood elfes, because if they can be mitigated, they will be mitigated. Their pure existence dictates a new spell hit cap in pvp, just because you can't risk a bad rng. In the end this means, that virtually all races now have the blood elf racial, without actually having it.
If you're a Blood Elf and your enemy didn't get the extra hit rating, then you still benefit from your racial.
If you're a Blood Elf and your enemy got the extra hit rating, then he sacrificed some other stats (STA, Resil, etc.) to get there, still giving you some indirect benefit from your racial.
If you're not a Belf and your enemy didn't get the extra hit rating, then obviously this is a losing/neutral scenario, but hey, it's because you're not a Belf.
If you're not a Belf and your enemy got the extra hit rating, then you profited from someone else's racial.
The more I think about this "fix", the more I dislike it. It devalues these racials for PvP, especially for blood elfes, because if they can be mitigated, they will be mitigated. Their pure existence dictates a new spell hit cap in pvp, just because you can't risk a bad rng. In the end this means, that virtually all races now have the blood elf racial, without actually having it.
A true min-maxer might swap in a weapon & off-hand with hit to gain the extra 2% only vs opponents that require it. Admittedly, I just keep my +hit weapons equipped all the time.
Has anyone else noticed an issue with defensive dispel resist since this most recent patch? On a few occasions (It's happened 3 times if I remember correctly) I have had resists on defensive dispels, both on myself and on teammates in arena, despite being hit capped. This has only occurred for me when attempting to defensively dispel magical debuffs from mages.
Yeah had this happen like 2 or 3 times total, thankfully none of them were game breaking. It was on debuffs like winter's chill I think.
12/20/08, 6:13 PM
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