Humbaba

So Season 6 is upon us and I feel compelled to start another druid thread that I probably won't follow in a month. (To my dismay balance was not a reasonable spec for a 2s or 3s team.) Several important changes occured in 3.1 that appear to have made resto druids more viable.

1. Blooms (Size) - Lifebloom now blooms according to the number of stacks. A 3 stack will actually bloom for triple the old size. I'm seeing 9500 blooms in pve gear.

2. Blooms (Mana) - The cost of lifebloom has gone up, but actually it's gone down. Yeah, really. When it blooms, it refunds half the mana of the base cost, not the actual tree of life based discount cost. In other words, if you let it bloom, lifebloom is cheaper now than it was in S5 before the cost was doubled.

I just tested this on a naked level 80 tauren. When I cast lifebloom I drop from 5316 mana to 4533 mana. Right before the bloom I have 4583 mana. After the bloom and the refund I have 5078 mana for a return of 495. Half the cost of lifebloom would be 391. That's a total of 104 less mana.

3. Plauge Strike - It no longer removes hots.

4. Nourish - It now gets 25% crit from nature's bounty and can be glyphed to be even more effective. In my PvE gear it's a 1.36s cast time. With no hots it's 3700 healing, but with a 3 stack of lb and a rejuv it's 5900 (glyphed).

5. Tree of life bonus - It now applies when in caster form.

I was linked an article written by Sodah that suggests sitting in tree 100% of the time (in PvE gear no less) and just playing very defensively. Has anyone actually tried this since Tuesday? Anyone have any early resto first impressions to share?

 

• Lanky

I will tell you that I am personally unable to kill a Resto druid by myself, since there is basically nothing to interrupt. The only time I have successfully done it was with a full rune pool, 130 RP and a gargoyle.

Druids are looking pretty good this season, but I am guessing you will run into some major problems against Rogues.

 

Ja7us

Our experience so far in 2's has been that rogue damage versus a druid (PvP gear) is very, very low compared to last season. My partner can typically just tank the rogue in tree for more or less as long as it takes (although the initial stunlock is not typically on him - that kind of burn is still deadly no matter what). Regular rogue damage versus a tree has taken an enormous hit, and with thorns hitting as hard as it does, the rogue is making a considerable HP sacrifice to administer that beating.

Caveat: these observations are more or less based on a single night's play, but we played ~40 games and saw dozens of rogues, so at this point the generalization seems pretty solid.

 

Grunge

I can confirm this, resto druids for me, have gone from a free kill to quite hard if decently geared.

However a good chain-stun/silence combo can still cause death, especially if you mitigate some of barkskin with gouge/blind.

Still for most setups involving druids, I've simply moved to sitting on their partner and making switches if the druid over-extends himself.

Although much of this I can attribute to playing with a Priest, the constant threat of Mana Burn serves as a ample deterrent.

There's also the HfB "PvP" spec, however it's viability depends highly on how popular Rogue+DPS is in your battlegroup.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

MatsT

If you have 3 stacks of Lifebloom and 2 of the stacks gets Purged, do you get the bloom heal and mana?

 

Shayo

/cast [target=focus] Banish

 

Humbaba

Wow, thanks for the insightful post. clarity: No one tanks a warlock in tree form. You tank physical dps classes in tree form due to the extra armor it gains you; armor that obviously isn't needed against magical dps.

I sat in my pve gear last night with only a pvp trinket. I died a few times because I wasn't prepared for warlock and arms warrior burst (in separate games) and a few more times by getting myself out of position and getting blown up, but for the most part I just tanked dps blasses. Banish wasn't an issue since I didn't face any melee + warlock teams in 2s. If there was a lock I didn't go to tree form.

I was playing with a hunter and we had the most trouble with ret pal / holy pal. We faced two different teams and couldn't put a dent in them. We ultimately lost because my hunter got too far out of position and got 1 rounded before I could hot him up again.

 

Maligne

Keep us posted on how that plays out as you move up. I personally can't see running with less than 600 resil. With 800 or so last night though I was tanking DKs and warriors without issue. Barkskin has gone from "yeah may as well use it" to "wow this is really really good".

I'm also trying 3/3 Brambles. It's hard to quantify but I think it's helping.

How are people feeling about Living Seed? The alternative would be Revitalize which would have come in handy last night, but I admit I wasn't focused on getting drinks in near as much as I could have been.

Inform your dealers and whores of my credit, and pour me a goddamned drink!

 

• Lanky

I would suggest always taking revitalize, now that lifebloom stacks protect rejuvenation from purges, and DKs cannot chain remove your HoTs. In threes, catching both partners with a WG and popping two rejuvs could give a very, very high amount of RNG DPS to classes like Warriors and Rogues, and a fair chunk of Free Frost strikes / deathcoils to DKs.

 

Amera

Brambles may be a better alternative to Nature's Grace depending on your bracket and setup. I'm also thinking Revitalize over Living Seed.

 

Gayhoof

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
27/0/44. It seems to be the one of the only viable 2v2 Resto Druid specs right now.

So who is everybody liking for a partner in 3.1? I'm running Druid/Rogue right now and it's going pretty well. We even seem to kill most Priest/Ret Pally teams. Btw: Hunter/healer is really hard for this combo.

 

dp

I'm playing with a rogue as well. Working good so far, but as you say, hunter/healer is really tough.

I'm currently using Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft as spec. Experimenting some with both spec and glyphs. Barkskin glyph is really good vs Bladestorm. A must, if you ask me. Swiftmend is also very sweet, but the third glyph is a really hard choice. Innervate, Moonfire and Rejuvenation all seems like OK glyphs. Any thoughts on glyph choice?

 

Mygore

I currently run with a Feral Druid and use Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

So far after only 24 games it doesn't seem to be bad. I am finding mana burn to be a bit annoying especially on org arena where I tend to be resorted to bear form rather than LOS due to the moving pillars resulting in less healing on my partner. It is also annoying how you can have your back to a wall and completely mitigate his shred.

I do have some mana issues but since we have double innervate I can tend to afford to miss dreamstate.

Also brambles is amazing, cast it with maxx spellpower pre fight and it can quickly kill off any pets that target me.

 

Humbaba

We've played a few more games and I decided to put on some resilience gear. I'm sitting around 500 now. I'd go for more, but it hurts to drop 213 and 226 gear for the lousy 200 pvp gear that I have. I added more resilience almost completely due to warlocks. Melees I still handle fairly well, but eating a 9k conflag and a 7k chaos bolt three seconds later (I think I have the spells, right) was brutal. I have a warlock friend that's close to 80 and is about to be done with finals and have time to grind honor, so I'm strongly considering partnering with him instead of my hunter buddy. I think my hunter buddy is better off with a shaman or a priest that can help provide more offensive pressure.

 

• Lanky

You should also look into threes as well, Druid Warlock Warrior or Druid Warrior DK will probably be strong comps: The warlock will unfortunately need more protection that just Soul Link though, so hopefully your friend can get some serious Emalon and farming done quickly if you go that route.

 

Amera

I'm not sure it's worth giving up improved barkskin, but maybe that's because I only have ~650 resilience right now. In 3s and higher, I think WG is more attractive as another hot to stack on yourself during a train.

I'm trying out some druid/lock in 2s now, and we're doing all right given neither of us has played competitively since season 3. We're actually having some issues with double DPS teams due to lack of resilience, I think, especially on his part. I'd really like to try out some War/Ret/Drd 3s, but I'm not sure how that is going to work out.

 

Ja7us

Improved Barkskin purge shielding is incredible (it stacks additively with subtlety as far as I can tell - can anyone confirm this?). I've watched a priest chain cast dispel for >6 seconds trying to catch an innervate and come up with nothing but air.

 

malthrin

Yeah, we're back. I've been playing Druid/Warrior the last couple of days, up to 1850 rating (around 2200 MMR). It feels very, very strong. Thoughts on some of the teams we've run into:

Priest/Rogue - easy. This matchup plays out very similarly to S3/4; the Rogue tries to pin down the Warrior so the Priest can Fear and either mana burn or nuke the Warrior. Druid/Warrior counters by keeping the Priest snared and pounding the Rogue, never letting the Priest get in a position to mana burn. Eventually the Priest ooms. If the Rogue ever goes on the Druid, the Warrior will demolish the Priest and the Rogue will die to Thorns.

Mage/Rogue - challenging. A strong rushdown is still very deadly; opening burst on the Warrior forcing the Druid to trinket blind, then CC on Warrior and swaps to Druid. Forcing the Rogue onto the defensive wins the match as long as you don't let them reset.

SPriest/Rogue - moderate. They tend to come in for an early Psy Scream on the Druid and get demolished during Bladestorm.

Shaman/Lock - just tunnel the Warlock all game, respect his burst and keep up steady pressure. Unrelenting Assault neuters the dot damage.

Priest/Ret - as long as you don't allow this team to set up a CC chain (repent/fear/hoj), there's virtually no way to lose. Tree can tank a ret indefinitely whereas Priest certainly can't tank Warrior forever.

Holy/DK - it's like a mirror match, but not. It's hard to give specific advice here; respect the DK burst, steal every drinking opportunity you can get, and sustain pressure to prevent the Paladin from drinking. Encourage the DK to overextend.

I think that's most of what we've seen. Druid survivability is pretty crazy and Arms warriors are much more mobile and harder to lock down than in TBC - this comp is definitely back on the map.

 

Grunge

I can't say I can agree with this, at least not from PR point of view. Perhaps most priests are not yet adjusted to the damage warrior can put out or their rogues fail at making clutch plays to peel the warrior when needed.

From what I've seen so far, sap warrior->burn druid->switch to warrior and kill him.
The initial burn on the druid can cause a) his death or b) he falls behind in the mana-war and the warrior dies due to OOM.

Although I expect druid survivability go up as they stack resilience, but I don't see that helping much since the main issue is about sustainability.

And while back in S4 you could get drinks in since your warrior could tank rogues for extended periods, it's not viable any more if the rogue is decently geared.
I've seen 700-800 resilience warriors dropped during a cs+ks stun, with the priest helping via GLG/Hand-Rockets+Holy Fire.

This isn't even considering the fact that priest mana-efficiency is through the roof at the moment.

Also I'd bring out the fact that some people suggest using PvE gear.
While it's true that Tree gives you a lot of survivability, you can still die if caught outside barkskin/hots running if wearing low resilience.
I've met WD at high ratings where I tear through the druid like he's paper, and WD where the druid feels like a brick wall.
Obviously you don't hit the brick wall and switch to the Warrior.


Still, I agree that Warrior-Druid is quite good vs PR, but that requires a lot more effort and good play. Unlike S4's Macestun galore, I actually enjoy playing vs WD, since it's not as frustrating anymore.

P.S. Prayer of Mending > Thorns, if the warrior doesn't come to peel the rogue.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

• Tecton

PoM procs from thorns? I thought it was only direct damage abilities that would trigger a PoM bounce, rather than a damage shield. Not that I'm doubting you, just wasn't aware that was the case.

 

• Lanky

No it will bounce it, I don't think DoT ticks bounce it though, although perhaps someone more experienced with the spell can confirm.

Another solution to thorns for P/R is just to dispel the first one, since it is the worst one due to pre-buffing with obscene spellpower.

 

MatsT

PoM DOES bounce on dot's, which is why it is so great against warlocks.

For your second point, I agree that a good solution is to dispel it. Not only because it's prebuffed with extra spellpower, but also because my experience is that even at relatively high arena ratings, people will rarely rebuff it if it gets dispelled. Very few people actually keep track of longtime buffs on people other than themselves.

 

safffira

What is the new consenses about who a druid should be playing with for 2's?

Is it back to the old warrior/druid or will other combos be just as viable.
What does everyone think about playing with Druid/Ret Pally. I feel that a ret pally would be able to completly balance a druid in tight situations with HoF and HoP while still being able to kill something as well.

I am reroll. My paladin got banned.

 

Mordekhuul

Seems to me it would be a mana race that a disc priest would win. Ret pallies seem to have a much harder time beating down opposing healers than other viable melee classes.

I have trouble solo'ing disc priests even in battlegrounds where the gear and skill levels are likely to be lower.

 

Amera

I think Ret is back to being relegated to teams with an MS class, so I really don't see why you'd run with one alone.