Amera

It's insanely overpowered and is going to result in some type of nerf. Innervate is already absurd, and pure tree-tanking was already totally viable up to 2k in 2s. Letting druids CC now is going to start the massive nerf resto train again because good druids are going to stomp everyone.

It's a good change for promoting a more druidy play-style, but really they are going to have to nerf innervate somehow really soon.

 

Humbaba

Druids are stronger now than they were in S3/S4. Druids have great survivability, the best regen mechanics in the arena, plus the easiest time sneaking a drink. The ridiculous longevity has to get nerfed.

 

Chaggi

I'm going to run by a strategy on you guys and it'd be nice if you could see anything wrong with it on a druid point of view.

I play a 2.2k~ rated Rogue/H Paladin team. I'm the typical Mut build while my Paladin rotates between Beacon and Repent spec

We dropped over 150 rating last week cause of DK/Druid, War/Druid and now with the nerf to tree form, we were thinking of rotating targets much more.

For example, we'd open on the DK or Warrior, and and once we see full HoTs, and a good chance, we switch onto the Druid, once he has full HoTs, we switch again, and we keep doing this. With Chains of Ice and Warrior's having 5 more seconds on Charge, I have more time on the Druid and maybe will be able to put out more damage if they choose to sit in tree form than before.

Essentially, we're trying to oom you guys, but I'm not completely sure on the viability of it, like if you can actually stay up with just 3 stacks of lifeblooms or whatever is your most mana efficient move.

 

malthrin

In general, switching targets is the way to beat a Druid. Putting up a set of hots on a new target costs mana and takes away time that the Druid could otherwise use to drink or CC. Your ideal switching opportunity is to catch the Druid with a Repentance in caster form, with no hots up - Blind or HoJ the War/DK and vanish open on the Druid. You should be able to do enough damage to force some defensive cooldowns.

The hard part about target switching is going to be resisting peels long enough to make the Druid fully hot himself and expend some mana, rather than just one or two hots to survive until you're off him.

 

Akraat

A quite viable tactic for a rogue agaisnt DK/druid Warrior/druid teams is to sap the dps. You open the druid, doing as much damage as possible (if he has hots running, wait for the time when the least amount are up). When the sap is almost out, blind if needed. If you have gotten the druid to about 50-60%, you gouge and blind, letting hots fall. Depending on if he trinkets either, your paladin may have to stun the druid. If you are an incredible rogue and have 5 CPs on the druid, simply kidney shot.

Anyway, once the cc is up, vanish. You then wait for hots to nearly run out, re sap the warrior (or blind etc) and re open the druid. With no hots running and around half-ish health, he has no chance.

As a rogue, try to avoid target switching too much. Force the other teams into positions and situations that favour you, and just kill something asap.

Of course against some teams you may have to adjust this tactic, but in general, I find in the most effective when playing these teams in 2s/3s with my rogue.

 

Awshlia

I'm loving my druid in 2's atm. I recently decided to spec a bit more offensively for 2's this spec

I'm sitting at 720 resil, and over 2100 SP. Against dual DPS teams, they often target me, and I very rarely die- my DK is learning how to peel better, and 1 DPS can't solo me (even 2 have to time stuns/ silences perfectly)- even when i do die, thorns has usually done enough damage that my DK can finish them off.

Healer / DPS teams are pretty easy as well. I can easily CC most classes and lock them down to separate them, and I pressure enough that the healer is forced to use his CD's on himself or his DPS. If we successfully split the dps / healer, then we win. If they try to stay together, I alternate cyclones between the 2 of them and my DK just plays pinball between the two. Their healer is forced to expend massive mana and CD's.

The only team that gives us problem is warlock / healer, but even that is getting easier since I can now DPS- when I was pure tree, we lost every time to this comp. Now we're much more viable against it- it just requires LOTS of CC and a bit of luck.

We're currently pushing for 1800, so we're not that high yet, but considering I've only been playing with this DK for 2 weeks (just over 100 games played), I think we're making good progress. I highly recommend this spec to anybody that wants to play a bit more offensively (note that I think having less than 650 resil would gimmick you, as you spend a decent amount of time out of tree form and need to take some hits in caster).

My one problem I'm having is re-rooting rooted targets ("there is already a more powerful spell"). I've tried using a lower rank roots first, then a higher rank on them, but for some reason I can't cast roots on a target that's already rooted. I end up taking damage and have to heal- ugh. Has anybody faced a similar problem, and how have you solved it?


Forgot to mention the druid nerfs incoming:
innervate will be nerfed
Barkskin's contribution to armor will be nerfed
Glyph of barkskin will be moved form 25% to 20% crit
thorns will now be on a 6 second passive CD (or the bonus dmg gained from SP will be decreased).

those are my predictions- all of them may not come true, but some I think will.

 

malthrin

This is a bug that's been around for a long time. It can be caused by spellpower procs or clickies, if you have any of those, but you'll also see it other times for no apparent reason. There's not much you can do, just play around it.


The Innervate + Barkskin undispellable full mana bar will get nerfed somehow; I'm guessing Barkskin will be changed to only grant dispel protection from hots or something. That's probably the most conspicuously overpowered thing about Druids.

 

Feralkin

I am also playing a slightly more offensive spec atm, Though not quite as offensive as yours Awshlia. My resil is still low after only starting 2 weeks ago and I play with a Warlock being slightly squishier i cant really chain cast wrath too often, so my spec is This.
I find that Trying to spam wrath without the full points in Vengeance just feels wrong, so I have taken more DoT dmg abilities to go with the HoT's
I went for IS, It ticks for around 1k every 2 seconds for 14 seconds on non resilience targets and only costs like 270 mana, so its dpm is amazing. It really helps when i am kiting around a melee, while my lock drains the healers, because thorns combined with IS is causing a lot of dmg to the melee. I generally get a rejuv and 2 LB's on both me and my lock and then cast IS on each team member. Then run around in tree form until the moment is right to pop out and root/cyclone something while my lock does his Conflag rotation.
If that burst does not get the target down, then he target switches to the other one while i get a 9 seconds of cyclone on the original focus target, before he gets any decent heals off. If they manage to come out of that alive, which most of the time is only classes with timed immunities, then the healer is so far behind that we have all but won already.

Certain comps give us major problems though, Like Disci priest + Lock. The double drain aspect combined with all those fears, dispels of magic dots, and huge resistance to burst with the insta fears and the shields is really quite a pain for us. Anyone got some Advice on what to do here?

Fun Note:
Our ele shaman friend joined us recently for a few 3v3. And i must say, IF both of them are left alone for 5 seconds each at the begining of the fight, then something is going to die from burst. They both focus the same target, Lock does immo->conflag->incinerate spam into searing pain. Shammy does Flame shock->Elemental Mastery+lava burst into Chain Lightening and LB spam. Usually the first 2 double GCD's have destroyed whatever they aimed at. Then if I cannot keep both alive i sacrifice the Shammy as he runs oom easily and Me and the lock go 2v2 on 'em. Usually results in a fun time.

 

Awshlia

Try putting 3 points into Brambles and check out the damage it does now. :P Unless you really love the proc of nature's blessing, I prefer the constant thorns damage.

I really wanted to find a warlock to 2's with- succubus, fear, and cyclone rotations all alternating targets would be pretty nasty, I think, but I couldn't find one and got stuck with a DK.

This is honestly your goal, in my humble opinion. I'm by no means a pro PvPer, but from what I've learned, the goal of arena isn't to kill your opponent ASAP, but rather to force them into a corner to use CD's, then kill them (unless you just happen to kill them right off the bat, which is certainly welcome). I suggest using DRtracker as a mod for your cyclones- it really helps in maximizing when to cyclone / roots (and your warlock's fears) without overlapping DR's.

My comp has trouble with warlock / priests, but it's not because of mana burn, but just the constant damage / CC that locks put out and our lack of an MS to down him (if the warlock is using a void or fel, it's good night us). However, LoS as much as you can and hang out in bear form a lot too. Unless they've changed it, you can't get mana drained / burned when in bear. You'll also need to drink as much as you can, at every single opportunity. Have your warlock banish their pet (then fear, perhaps) when you want to get a drink.

 

straightfacedfsu

That is actually a very good point he made. Is it possible to trinket out of that? can a priest dispel the banish? The challenging thing about that in pvp these days is tree form gives a substantial amount of armor, thereby increasing survivability. Anyone have suggestions about dealing with this issue?

The number one druid healer for two's has a very interesting talent tree and not as much res as i would have expected. Arena Junkies Forums

stats are:
2392 spell power
393 mp5
758 resilience
1388 stam

Enigma also specs the talent tree in balance down to insect swarm, which was a surprise to me.

 

Amera

With barkskin (and some hots) up, their chance of getting it off is really low. Hilariously one of the best counters is to cyclone the druid so the innervate doesn't tick.

 

tarrek

Why is that a surprise? The balance tree has talents useful for resto all the way down to the sixth tier, and when you're down there you might as well pick up IS too.

 

malthrin

I actually specced out of Brambles this week. As Druid/Warrior, I feel pretty confident against most Rogue teams without the added Thorns damage. The best Priest/Rogues who play patiently are still very dangerous, though.

Yes, you can trinket banish and no it can't be dispelled. However, it's not really a big concern; a lock could just as easily cast Fear instead of Banish, and then you're in trouble no matter what form you're in. Hug those pillars and don't give warlocks a chance to cast anything at you. Worst case, if the lock starts casting Banish and you can't LOS, leaving shapeshift is not on the GCD so you can drop Tree form during the cast.

 

Shayo

Also, be sure to watch the cast bar of the warlock (set him as your focus target maybe). I've had some success recently in "psyching out" the druid. I switch my target to the druid's partner, cast immolate, and do the exact macro I posted previously. I guess the druid thinks that I'm wasting a cast of banish on my target or whatever. I'm not sure if you know this, but if a warlock's casting banish it means that a) he's casting at you or b) he's casting at a warlock/mage pet. Just drop out of tree when you see banish on the cast bar because we can't cast it on an invalid target. The good druids that I've played against recently have been extremely pro at LoS and switching forms.

Honestly though, it doesn't matter much unless you run with a rogue or a warrior. Warlock trumps druid/paladin, rogue/warrior trumps warlock.

 

Awshlia

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about resto druid / dk combos? My dk and I have trouble with warlock / healer comps- lots of trouble. The only way we can win is if they're using a succubus- my dk can kill the succubus very quickly, strangulate then stun the warlock and do some serious damage (without soul link, of course)- usually he dies without the healer being able to heal at all. If he's using a felhunter though, or the rare void, we lose.

 

Shayo

I'll be perfectly honest, I'm likely not the best person to ask since my 2s rating seems to be capping between 1400-1450 with my shaman partner. With that disclaimer, this comp really sucks for us. It's the extremely rare outlast fight. I basically switched from affliction to avoid this type of fight

First thing I tend to do is swap to demon armor (since we're trying to outlast them - 20% bonus heals is a game saver) and start up the voidwalker sacrifice since the DK is going to poop on me for basically the whole fight. This fight basically depends on the map - if there's a lot of ways for the druid to LoS me, then we're likely to lose since the druid can stay in tree. If it's wide open and I can drag the DK out to where the druid has to come into my sights, well then it's usually over almost instantly after that. All it will really take for us to get a win is for me to get one good crit on the druid. Against DK/druid I use VW since I've almost always got it out at the start of every fight.

 

kylem

So after my Pally stopped playing WoW I found a Warrior to run with. After all the reading I had done at the beginning of the season I was excited to now have a warrior to play with but I seem to be doing something wrong I can't seem to keep us alive against the dual dps teams that have CC from both players, We've encountered hunter and DK, Rouge and DK, Hunter and mage, lock and mage, dual mage, hunter and shaman, dual shamans, and lock and shadow priest. While we have been able to win some of these games we are having lot of trouble with them and wins are more due to the other team not playing well then us being amazing. So how do you survive dual dps teams that can CC, or interrupt/slow for at least 20-30 seconds at a time?

edit: here's a link to my spec ( I'll try to be in my pvp gear but my raid spec is feral). Here is a link to my partners spec. If you guys can see anything wrong here I'd much appreciate it, were low ranked now cause we had to start from scratch and were having trouble with these teams. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated as I am a relative pvp noob.

 

Mohlovin

At first glance (keeping in mind I'm not a pro at arenas but have read a lot and am starting up with war/dru just started this week.

3 points in Nature's Grace from my reading is not worth it especially for 2s..those 3 points seem to be debated between brambles, living seed, and revitalize. For you and teh comps you're struggling wtih, I'd suggest Brambles, that is what I am going with.

Second: glyph of barkskin...get it! *edit* I should specify; barkskin, swiftmend, nourish. Minors are less beneficial.

Third: GRIND HONOR, GRIND HONOR, GRIND HONOR. You are in mostly Naxx gear, with very little PvP gear which means PvP and PvE geared double dps alike will slaughter you given the chance. (I am at this same stage, wearing mostly all ULD PvE gear and jsut starting the honor grind, it goes very fast especially if you do WG dailies adn get WG marks every chance possible. I can't see your partners gear currently, so I can't comment on it.

Then it would come down to play style, which of course, I can't tell at all from a forum post.

Are you prehotting early and often? (against rogues I break stealth, prehot myself to the max and bait them out of hiding, can't let them get the jump) often against other melee double dps this is true too.

Does your warrior effectively know how to peel dpsers off you to allow you to escape?

Do you use a focus macro for cyclone? (though CCing is a rare chance vs a double dps comp if they are up your rear)

Do you spam abolish poison constantly vs any team with a rogue?

Do you keep thorns up and moonfire as you can? Hots and thorns will kill most double melee dps by themselves through a druids hots (with decent gear).

This is just s start, and some of the others here can give you a much better idea towards higher brackets, but you and I are in similar situations starting new so I thought I'd offer what I've picked up lately.

 

kylem

Thanks for the response, I've been thinking of changing my spec around, quick question is nature's grace then worth it in 3s?

Sorry about the gear I probably was in pve, I have the following pvp gear
hateful helm
pve neck
hateful shoulders
deadly cloak
WG chest
furious bracers
hateful gloves
emblem belt ( didn't want to give up the spirit and SP for the WG one)
hateful legs
earthgiving boots
ring of holy clensing
band of channeled magic
Spark of hope
WG sp trinket ( for the cc use ability)
spire of sunset
emblem trinket

I do prehot and thats not my problem I get into trouble say 30 seconds into the fight when they double focus on me and interrupt, reset, lockout all my spell casting. This seems to always happen right after a lifebloom stack has just fallen off and I only have 1 hot up on myself. Any advice for that scenario?

 

nevermind

You shouldn't lose to any of the comps listed really... especially the hunter comps. Keep abolish up on yourself and LoS well.

Rogue/Mage & Rogue/Lock are the comps you need to worry about. Often the best way to deal with any double DPS is to create separation. I remember in S5 rocket boots were a life saver vs rogue/mage.

I play the same comp as you, have your warrior run in and start the match before they can set anything up. Pre-hot yourself and your warrior, don't worry about mana because these matches won't last very long.

Make sure to stand near a pillar at all times, it can win you games. When a rogue opens up on you, try trinket+demo shout+travel form.

 

kylem

hmm ok I had been staying in tree form after I hit my trinket and resetting the stacks on both me and my warr before the rogue cc'd me again, I'll try popping to travel form to get some separation real quick. I am confused how you do so well against like say hunter/ret or hunter/shammy stun and sleep have such short cooldowns and the hunters are able to disengage and kite so easily how do you fight them in the arenas with little obstacles to hide around?

rogue mage doesn't seem to be too much of a problem for us as we just wait for the rogue to pop on me and charge+ bladestorm seems to pretty much finish him off, of course a really good rogue will kick our ass but there are more bad rogues then good thank god. rogue/locks I just can't seem to beat ( of course we are always getting them in org or dalaran arenas so that doesn't help).

 

Akraat

hunter/shaman and hunter/ret, always go for the hunter. Aimed shot and his burst is retarded, keep pressure on him to let you get away and recover or LoS. It's that simple. Against rogue/lock, go for the lock, rogues can't really finish off druids by themselves, but locks have a better chance. Stopping conflag and fears is huge, and will make the rogue redundant. If the lock doesn't die, just switch to the rogue when it's a good idea.

 

malthrin

Against rogue/lock, go for the lock if they are on you; getting UA up will enable you to tank and live with some LOSing. If they're on your warrior, play very defensive but don't let the Rogue restealth and whittle him down. Likewise vs Rogue/Mage; if you don't let them reset, the Rogue will eventually die.

 

Arkonos

So, no Innervate+Barkskin=Full mana anymore, but more flexibility using Innervate.
The nerv to Lifebloom hits me specially against rogues, mages, dks. It was nice to get back at full health, while under silence, counterspell etc..

A good strategy against (aff) Wls, has been killing the pet. But with the changes to resilience and pets scaling with 40% I'm not sure it's a good idea anymore.

I should? I tried a few times, but the poisons came back within the next 3 hits, it was quite mana expensive and I had to sacrifice an uncomfortably lot of GCDs.

 

malthrin

Innervate is still very usable. You have two options; 1) Use it when the Priest/Shaman is under a lot of pressure, and can't spare the GCDs to dispel you, or 2) Use it when out of range/LOS of the Priest/Shaman and they're snared and unable to reach you. An interesting thing to note is that the 10 second duration on Innervate means that blocking it with Cyclone is now much more powerful; with 20 second Vates, you could deny half of it but they'd still get most of a bar once Cyclone was fully DR'd. Now you can deny the whole thing.

When a Rogue is on me and I have full hots up and Swiftmend on cooldown, I like to spam shift Tree form rather than spam Cure Poison - shifting removes Crippling, which increases the odds that the next Abolish tick will remove Wound, and can sometimes take you out of melee of the Rogue for a second or two which prevents some damage. This also gets you out of frost novas very quickly.