Shaman: Enhancement - Page 2

Rouncer · 01/20/09, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Yasuhiko

You're absolutely right in that we need to do more testing, but when we do, make sure latencies are recorded, such windfury proc time differences could just be due to a discrepency between when your attack submits and when it registers. For all we know, your windfury cooldown was started on the server at 16:35'36.500 and your latency didn't return the attack until 16:35'36.750, whereas the second was at 39.500 and returned at 39.625. If you have a latency that shifts between 125ms and 250ms, this is certainly possible. (As a note, I don't KNOW how exactly latency works on Blizzard's servers, especially with attacks like Windfury, but it will no doubt be a factor.)

Please move discussion to the thread in the Shaman class mechanics forum. http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t42139-e...eapon_cooldown

Those forums are where all discussions should be taking place. This thread is only for things specifically relating to information in the TTT thread. If you will note, I responded why we wouldn't be adding those specific haste values into the TTT and then created a topic in the class mechanics forum to discuss the matter further to see if a consensus could be reached that possibly would be worth adding to the TTT.

Currently the status on the topic is that the Windfury cooldown interacts with weapon speed in a "bell curve" type fashion due to the inconsistencies of server/client interaction as well as relating to possible server load issues. As such for raiding purposes there are no clearly definable values of haste that will cause a person to enter a "windfury chasm" where their proc rate will suddenly decrease. To put it simply, the dropoff in haste EP value seen in the Sim is a product of the perfect way the Sim models the game and is not translatable to real world experience.

I think that thread may get some new life from the new windfury glyph but, unless there are some new findings to contradict the above, that is basically what will end up being added to the TTT.

sof2er · 01/28/09, 11:44 AM

I can confirm that they gain 30% AP, 35% Armor and 30% Stam.

The following script adds a pet window for your spirit wolves (it won't show stats until they are summoned)

/run if not oldHasPetUI then oldHasPetUI = HasPetUI; HasPetUI = function() return true, false; end end PetTab_Update() ToggleCharacter("PetPaperDollFrame")

Neurosisxeno · 01/29/09, 3:48 PM

Not sure why no one has mentioned it, but Totem of Hex is also a great choice for Enhancement Shaman.

EDIT: I've actually noticed a large number of Enhancement Shaman switching over to it considering 60 haste is hardly a dps buff, Stonebreaker's doesn't offer a high enough up time, and Splintering doesn't scale and is horrible for the most part. Not exactly sure how much it amounts to in terms of EP, but I would assume it would probably be on par if not better than Stonebreaker's because it's not a chance on hit.

Signu · 02/10/09, 10:30 PM

Looking at the recommended enchants for gloves, it seems that the engineering-made Hyperspeed Accelerators are the best available (if you are an Engineer of course).

Hyperspeed Accelerators (340 haste for 10sec, 1min CD)
340*Haste EP / 6

340 * 1.3 / 6

442 / 6 = 73.667 EP

Crusher = 44 EP
Precision = 62 EP
Expertise = 39 EP.

There is even a fair amount of wiggle-room on activating them every minute to keep the average EP up.

EDIT: I forgot to point out that the tooltip on Wowhead and in-game both show a 2min CD on this item, but it actually has a 1min CD.

Drolfeir · 02/14/09, 3:31 AM

In the "Evaluating with WWS" section: Shaman: Enhancement

You should see on the charts also Ghost Wolves damage and Static Shock(Will be shown as Lightning Bolt) damage if the shaman has points in it, but those two should be with least percentage on the chart.

Just typo corrections here -- this should mention that our pets show up as Spirit Wolf and our Static Shock data shows up as Lightning Shield. These are both going to show up as an additional 3 to 5% depending on the encounter (one set of wolves on short fights or e.g. Malygos, more lightning shield damage on fights with frequent boss aoe like KTz).

Malan · 02/17/09, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Swiftend

Use it as you see fit, makes no difference to me.

I see fit to delete it, thanks.

Rouncer · 02/18/09, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by bestpike

I cant see any glyph analysis. Are there any plans to add them sometime

Jury is still out regarding the Glyphs especially with the latest changes to the Windfury glyph and it's current state where half of it's effects are on the tooltip and the other half are not. Stormstrike is a given and the Windfury glyph is clearly the best option for the second glyph provided it's current effects are actually intended. However there has been no confirmation from Blizzard and with the AP boost not even being on the tooltip it could be removed at any time during a hotfix which would take it from the second best glyph to being relatively worthless since we would most likely no longer be using Windfury on the mainhand for PvE anyway.

Hopefully we will get some updates on the glyphs with the upcoming PTR and once the dust all settles it will be finalized enough to include more info in the TTT.

Malan, did you see the post about expertise rating not truncating? It seems like Vulajin has confirmation in the following posts, so it seems like the chunk aspect is only a tooltip thing and we can remove that chart from the TTT if you agree with the findings.

http://elitistjerks.com/1106316-post348.html

edit - is that better? I just set it for the highest value whatever that is.

Malan · 02/18/09, 1:10 PM

Yah and assuming its true then the sim is modeling Expertise incorrectly as well.

[e] also screw you and whatever page length settings you're using.

Raut · 02/19/09, 4:45 AM

The example linked above is not proof that expertise is modeled incorrectly. It strongly supports the claim, but 20k hits may be on the light side of writing the rule set.

I'm currently moving so I have no active wow connection(and my windows disk died, buhu), maybe ticket a GM and let them filter the request to a dev or even ask on the dev forum?

zarmock · 03/01/09, 1:29 AM

raut said 20k hits was not a big enough sample for the expertise being a fluid measurement instead of steps, so I did a test. I made sure to have 700 hit to take misses out of the test. I did a test of over 100k hits with 210 expertise only had 98 dodges.

finnstoney · 03/30/09, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by Talaus-Mok'Nathal

Alright, I'll try to throw together some kind of Mana Saving Talent guide.

Elemental Focus: save 45% of 18% of your base mana every time you shock.

Shock Frequency

I'll save ya the trouble Talaus, I wrote a blog post a few weeks ago with my analysis on this, I'll repost the results here. sorry I didn't post sooner.

Elemental Focus
* 1880 Mana per Talent Point
* Based on my target dummy tests on the PTR the Clearcasting proc rate is about 2.25% and will only effect 2 spells: ES & LB
* Conclusion: A completely wasted talent point

Shamanistic Focus
* 4000 Mana per Talent Point
* Based on 174 mana saved per shock, assuming about 23 shocks per 3 min fight (used on average about every 8 sec)
* Conclusion: Useful in 5s where the additional mana talents are needed and Replenishment is not common. As it stands now I won’t be taking it for raiding 10s or 25s.

Improved Stormstrike
* 7900 Mana per Talent Point
* Based on 879 mana returned per SS, assuming 18 SS per 3 minute fight (used on average about every 10 sec)
* Conclusion: better use of 2 talent points than Ele Focus + Sham Focus. A must have for PvP, 5s, 10s, and most likely 25s.

Shamanistic Rage
* 10,000 Mana per Talent Point (scales with gear)
* Based on an 11k mana pool, using SR with 1k mana remaining, and only needing once in a 3 minute fight.
* Odds are though that it won’t be needed at all in a 3 min fight and may only be needed in longer fights.
* Conclusion: great for "oh $#!t" and for long-run boss fights, good utility talent for any level of play.

Conservative estimates are used for estimating cooldowns. For example, though you can use SS every 8 seconds (as of build 9637) we’re not going to get to it every time so I added 2 sec to every average CD usage

Summary:
* Imp SS & SR are clear winners
* SF is optional
* Ele Focus is a waste of a talent point

(ps, holla at me if I shouldn't be linking back to my own blog, but that was the original research and a few comments from readers there)

May all your hits be crits!

Imadraenei · 04/09/09, 11:53 AM

The section on Two-Hand Viability still refers to the old 0/42/19 build granting 9% melee hit from talents. A minor discrepency, but I thought it might be worth noting since Nature's Guidance doesn't exist anymore.

Rouncer · 04/10/09, 1:06 PM

updated Expertise section, 2hand weapon section and the Totem section.

To do (help/input from community appreciated):

- update runspeed section to properly compare Icewalker versus Tuskarr/Cat Speed

- Determine values of new trinket and totem options from Ulduar

- add a section with math on Frostbrand coefficient and interaction with Frozen Power and compare dps using Frostbrand versus Flametongue for PvP situations* (will also require waiting to see if the Frostbrand coefficient of rank 9 goes live in 3.1 bugged at it's current 6% or if it will be fixed to be either 10% or hopefully 12%)

- implementation of a mana regen section*

*(discuss with Malan to determine if worth including in the TTT)

Malan · 04/10/09, 2:09 PM

I am inclined to suggest that mana regen isn't something we really need to worry about, for the following reasons:

* Mana cost of spells is level and talent dependent
* A combination of talents, abilities, consumables, gear, and group/raid buffs/auras/procs makes mana regen negligible and a non-issue. The exact combination of which of those inputs is required to make regen a non-issue will vary wildly from individual to individual and group to group.
* The sim has a mana simulation available and if used properly can warn the player of mana concerns and the player can find a combination of inputs that eliminates the issue.

Agree on the need for a FT/FB coefficient section, though that might just be worth branching into it's own wiki page since it's applicable to all shaman really.

Rouncer · 04/10/09, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Agree on the need for a FT/FB coefficient section, though that might just be worth branching into it's own wiki page since it's applicable to all shaman really.

I was thinking more in regards to Frozen Power and how that is going to work but I think we can accomplish both by making a new wiki page about it and tying it in with specifics for Enhancement here.

That said, I won't spend even a minute working on anything for the wiki about Frostbrand till that coefficient is fixed.

This is the PTR thread I made about the issue World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Frostbrand Weapon