Malan

Gonna try to get to these 3.1 updates next week.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Kraakku

I've been reading EJ forums daily for such a long time that I felt I should at least try to make some contribution to the shaman community, so here it goes, don't kill me for trying.

As to Rauts question about optimal specs, I've been running simulations all morning using both my current gear and gear that I'll be getting in the very near future, and I've come to the conclusion that 3/3 Call of Flame with 4/5 Reverberation is the best spec by a very small margin (approximately 3 dps compared to 2/3 CoF 5/5 Reverb) on a single target encounter, thus obviously better on multiple targets. Then again the 5th point in Reverberation will likely outperform the third point in Call of Flame in high mobility encounters, but I'd still personally go for CoF for trash damage if nothing else. Anyways the main point here was: 20/51/0 > 16/55/0, with the difference being around 25dps or so.

With 4 or 5 points in Reverberation, it would propably be safe to assume approximately 10 shocks/minute, so Shamanistic Focus would save 45% * 18% * 10 = 81% of base mana per minute, making it the best mana conservation talent for a single talent point for those who feel mana might be an issue, as well as those, like myself, who don't want to dualspec one or two points differently for Vezax. The best alternative use of that talent point would be in imp shields, which would increase your dps by ~5.

On a sort of a side note, I've noticed that hit is becoming a really good stat with 4 parts of tier 8 armor, even when you're way past the spell hit cap. I've simmed EP values using Pyrite Infuser in both trinket slots to simulate Blood of the Old God + Pyrite Infuser as BiS trinkets, thus raising my melee hit (with talents etc.) to over 20% and hit still comes out equal to haste and crit. I'm just pointing this out since some people still try to avoid extra hit like the plague and laugh at the idea of double hit trinkets, when actually it's a stat you don't want to be gemming, after reaching the spell hit cap obviously, but is still worth having. Additionally, going past the spell hit cap is useful in encounters where you might not have the spell hit debuff active on all boss level targets, or your shadowpriests/moonkins are total screw-ups who die midfight on a daily basis.

Note that all my test results were run using the tier 8 4part bonus, mainly because that is obviously the gear everyone will eventually be using.

 

Malan

Made some of the updates for 3.1 today. Can anyone verify this post - Shaman: Enhancement ?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

• frmorrison

Few misc changes you could make: Missing the new Ignis Totem, Run Speed for Boots is useful (since DK Aura is self-only), and Herbalism profession just gives small HoT that takes up a GCD.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Tulaugu

I saw the Meteorite Whetstone in the list of good trinkets, but since 3.08 or 3.1 (not 100% sure) the Darkmoon Card: Death has had a serious improvement which would make it as far as my ingame (1h targetdummy) tests go a reasonable bit better than Whetstone and even may dream of being equipped next to Mirror of Truth.
So I wonder if anybody can back up my story and if so that it could be added in the list of good trinks for enh shamans? Since it's a very nice bargain for 800-1000g BO on the AH.

 

Rouncer

There is a very easy way to tell how good or how bad this trinket is for you, run the Sim.

DMCeath is not a trinket option in the sim but it's static crit is the same amount you have equipping a Mirror and the proc has the same damage range and ICD as Bandit's Insignia. So load your stats with a Mirror equipped and then change the mirror in the Sim to Bandit's and you will have the value of the card.

My opinion would be that DMCeath would be a decent option for PvP but for PvE you are better off sticking to the whetstone and mirror if those are the three trinkets you are deciding between. For PvP, if you are looking to buy a Darkmoon Card, you might be better served getting a [Darkmoon Card: Berserker!] since with a 50% chance to gain a stack from just about everything it basically works out to a static 105 resilience and 105 crit which may serve you better for Enhancement PvP.

 

thethingie

It would appear that the talent build links provided here are out of date. For example, the first build (listed in the guide as "16/55/0") has talents only up to 16/44/0.

MogsterTich attempted a correction (on page 2 of this thread), but his version of the 16/55/0 build still has 2/2 Earthen Power, which seems to me to be a PVP talent. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Would anyone be able to update these builds, please?

Forgive me if the answer to this query has been posted elsewhere. I have searched the Shaman discussion threads and have not been able to find an answer.

Thank you.

 

Malan

It's 16/44 in the link that I provided because the other points can basically be put anywhere you want - which is stated in the preceding text.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

bobmarley753

A better baseline spec to put in would be (16/55/0). If this is intended to be a resource for people less knowledgeable on enhance, posting a spec which includes several pvp talents (frozen/earthen power), no points in vital talents (shammy rage, MW, etc.), and saying the other points can be put anywhere might just lead to a lot more "what is best spec" questions on the enhance sim thread.

 

Rouncer

Sure, maybe if you were a bad player that would be a good build.

Elemental Focus instead of a 3rd point in Call of Fire?
Ancestral Knowledge instead of Improved Shields?

There are way too many 'optional' points in that build.

The World of Warcraft Armory

That's the basic Enhancement Build. It requires at least 1 point in either Improved Ghost Wolf or Improved Shields to actually work as a build which leaves 3 points free to spend on:

Second point in Imp Ghost Wolf (very good talent to have for Freya)
Third point in Call of Fire (best dps value out of the talents remaining)
Points in Elemental Warding (our health pool sucks so this can help to keep the death count managable)
Points in Improved Shields (worth more dps per talent point then Ancestral Knowledge)
Points in Reverberation (this is a good option if you don't need to spend the points on Improved Windfury Totem)

Addendum:
Elemental Focus is not worth the talent point even if you don't have replenishment in the raid. If you are in a 25 man raid with Replenishment and JoW then a point can be pulled from Improved Stormstrike as well (not really recommended since the dps gain from spending that point elsewhere is minimal). If your raid has a Frost specced DK tank or another Enhancement Shaman then the two points in Improved Windfury Totem can be placed elsewhere as well.


Edit - TTT updated regarding talent builds

 

Unkka

The 1.076 seconds represents not the total run time in a fight necessary for Cat's Swiftness to be superior to Icewalker, but rather the additional amount of combat time needed to be gained from using Cat's Swiftness in order to overcome its DPS deficit. It would take over 13.45 seconds of run time during a 5 minute fight for that to be the case.

EnhSim calculates that Cat's Swiftness is a 20 DPS loss for me as compared to Icewalker. If I can do 5k DPS with Icewalker, that works out to 6000 damage less over the course of a 5 minute fight. It will take a little over 1.2 seconds of combat time gained to offset that loss. The 8% speed gain from Cat's Swiftness will not make up that time unless over 15.06 seconds of non-combat run time occurs during the fight. Less than 15 seconds of running and Icewalker is the better enchant from a purely damage-dealing perspective.

Here's a graph comparing non-combat run times versus fight duration at 4, 5 and 6k DPS. If your total amout of time spent running during a fight is above the applicable line, Cat's Swiftness is superior. Below the line and Icewalker wins.


A couple of things to note. First, DPS will vary with the duration of a fight due to such things as bloodlust, trinket CDs, SW use, etc., therefore the lines are approximations and in reality will not scale in such a completely linear fashion. Second, the DPS loss of Cat's Swiftness vs. Icewalker will vary from shaman to shaman for obvious reasons, again meaning that the numbers on the graphs are not hard and fast for everyone. Finally, Tuskarr's Vitality or Boar's Speed will result in larger DPS gaps as compared to Icewalker and will thus require even more run time for them to be viable strictly in terms of doing damage.

As always, the best answer is to sim it for yourself.

 

Orcheon

Simmed it--looks about right. I'd still prefer it over Icewalker for other reasons. Glad to see the update on my calculations.

 

Vespasian

I have done some work around this Cat's Swiftness matter and would appreciate some feedback. My math is generally highly unreliable:

[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion

No matter what understanding we arrive at on this issue, I hope we can update the TTT section on this. I found it to be extremely difficult to draw meaning from.

Highest current potential Enh Shaman DPS according to Enhsim: 9449
To offer a higher DPS log, visit the BiS gear and set-up discussion thread

 

Oogachaka

Just an editing note:
Last sentence of the first paragraph of the expertise section (the shoulder pads of the stranger example) is no longer relevant.

 

Rouncer

Sentence removed.

I've read your work and while your math isn't bad I still find myself still unconvinced regarding it's validity. Just this weekend I ate 6 gravity bombs and 4 light bombs from XT which completely invalidates your chart for time spent in motion.

Post a response here or PM me with your post broken down strictly to time in motion per minute for Cat's to be better then Icewalker and I may incorporate it into the TTT but I really think we need more discussion on this topic before it can be incorporated and such discussion should also include the dps value of 2/2 Improved Ghost Wolf for outdoor raid bosses (Freya, XT, Ignis and Razorscale).

Alt mage - Rounce

 

• frmorrison

It seems the new instance is outside, so imp Ghost Wolf should be useful there if it is indeed an outdoor zone.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Vespasian

There is no single 'time in motion per minute' figure that can be arrived at. The figure is always dependent upon your DPS. The lower your DPS, the more time you have to be moving to derive the benefit from run speed that would equate to the loss of DPS from the absence of Icewalker.

The calculation for determining the value of run-speed vs Icewalker is simple:

Alpha	Variable	Calculation	E.g	Explanation
A	Encounter duration	-	600	Enter the encounter duration
B	Your DPS	-	6000	Enter your DPS
C	Icewalker DPS	-	20	This is how much Dmg is lost when you don't have Icewalker on boots. This figure is always 20
D	DPS lost to Icewalker	AxC	12000 dmg	How much total dmg do you lose over the duration of the encounter by not having Icewalker?
E	Time required to make up the lost DPS	D/B	2 seconds	How much extra time do you need to be DPSing your target to make up that lost DPS?
F	Travel time needed for 'E' figure to be 8% of travel time	x/100*8	25 seconds	How long do you need to be running for run-speed to get you to your target 'E' seconds faster? When X and E are the same, that is your run-time.

At 6000 DPS, you would have to be moving for 2.5 seconds per minute for Icewalker and run speed to be equal.

Below is a table identifying the break even point for run-speed vs Icewalker. It assumes you are geared to do 6k DPS, which is a standard and achievable for most Ulduar Shaman. If you spend more time running than the break even point, run-speed is better. If you spend less, Icewalker is better.

Encounter	Duration	Avg run time	Explanation	Break even
Razorscale	5m	0-10s	Running between groups of adds. Running to Razor when she lands	12.5s
Ignis	5m	0s	You are constantly on the boss	12.5s
XT	10m	0-20s	Running out for gravity bombs	25s
Iron Council	8m	10-20s	Running out for 4 (four) overloads/runes of death	20s
Kolargon	5m	0-10s	Running back to boss after being grabbed	12.5s
Auriaya	5m	5-10s	Running back after fears	12.5s
Hodir	3m	5-10s	Running between Frozen targets on the pull, then running to boss	7.5s
Thorim	7m	0-10s	Running out to meet an add to begin DPS early (as you walk it back to the middle)	17.5s
Freya	10m	30s+	Running between various adds and trees	25s
Mimiron	9m	30s+	Avoiding his AoE, chasing adds in P3	25s
General	9m	0s	You are constantly on the boss	22.5s
Yogg	12m	30s+	Running between adds, tentacles and the brain rooms	30s
Algalon	6m	10-20s	Avoiding Cosmic Smashes, running in and out of portals for Big Bang	15s

As you can see, the only encounters in which a clear benefit is consistently derived are Freya, Mimi and Yogg. Hodir and Algalon are at break even point. The rest are below break even point.

As I mentioned in my original post, I am aware of how much this table relies upon anecdotal experience. Its funny that Rouncer mentions spam gravity/light bombs this week, as in my own kill I recieved zero gravity/light bombs (as an aside, if your melee dps simply stack on one of XT's legs and run to the other when they get light bombs, they max range the AoE while still being able to DPS the boss). Despite the loose empirical data source we rely upon, I think the numbers above are largely accurate for a most Shaman in these encounters.

It should be noted as well that the value of Icewalker (20 DPS) is calculated when you are already over hit cap. The value of this enchanter would likely be higher when below hit cap.

Based upon this, I think it would be fair to say that at Icewalker is least as good as, if not better than, run-speed.

With regards to Imp Ghost Wolf on outdoor encounters, I really don't think there is much discussion to be had on the subject in the context of Ulduar.

• For Ignis, you are never not on top of the boss.
• For Razor, your run time is extremely minimal.
• For XT, your run time is minimal to moderate, and it is unlikely that the points in GW would make up for the loss of DPS suffered from 1/3 Call of Flame (the talent from which you would invariably have to pull the points)
• For Freya, you are spending a considerable amount of time running, so Imp GW would provide huge benefit. Further, you get few opportunities to use your Magma totem on this encounter due to the high degree of mobility.

Highest current potential Enh Shaman DPS according to Enhsim: 9449
To offer a higher DPS log, visit the BiS gear and set-up discussion thread

 

Rouncer

Ghost Wolf doesn't stack with movement speed enchants so if it is an outdoor zone then Icewalker + Imp Ghost Wolf would most likely end up the best option for maximum dps.

XT - depends on how much XT hates you per attempt. My last 10 man I ate 6 gravity bombs and 4 light bombs so those 2 points ended up being worth more dps then just about anything in my entire build (as for the legs thing - that really doesn't help much when you get gravity bomb into light bomb into gravity bomb).

Check my build - the point you pull comes from Improved Shields or Ancestral Knowledge as those talents are worth the least total dps. Improved Shields is worth about 9dps per point, Ancestral Knowledge is about 8dps per point and Call of Flame is 25dps per point (on a single target - with multiple targets it is worth more). Considering that 1 second of lost time on target is worth at least 5000dps it would seem like Improved Ghost Wolf gives pretty good value per talent point even if it can only be used on a few encounters.

Edit - started a thread about runspeed and Imp Ghost Wolf, please move the discussion there.

[Enh] Runspeed and Ghost Wolf in Raids

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Ronboar

For the proffessions:

LW Fur lining attackpower is now 130 AP (up from 116).

Skinning: Master of Anatomy is now 40 Critrating (up from 32).

The weapons section does not relfect the normalization of FT.

/Thanks

 

Nighteyez07

Could we update the gems section to list the all the epic gems that would be useful to Enhance? Here's a list I compiled when the patch came out. Some could probably be edited out such as pure ArPen, Haste and Crit Rating.

Red
Bright Cardinal Ruby +40 Attack Power
Delicate Cardinal Ruby +20 Agility
Fractured Cardinal Ruby +20 Armor Penetration Rating
Precise Cardinal Ruby +20 Expertise

Yellow
Quick King's Amber +20 Haste Rating
Rigid King's Amber +20 Hit Rating
Smooth King's Amber +20 Critical Strike Rating

Green (Yellow or Blue)
Forceful Eye of Zul +10 Haste Rating and +15 Stamina
Jagged Eye of Zul +10 Critical Strike Rating and +15 Stamina
Vivid Eye of Zul +10 Hit Rating and +15 Stamina

Orange (Red or Yellow)
Accurate Ametrine +10 Expertise Rating and +10 Hit Rating
Deadly Ametrine +10 Agility and +10 Critical Strike Rating
Deft Ametrine +10 Agility and +10 Haste Rating
Glinting Ametrine +10 Agility and + 10 Hit Rating
Pristine Ametrine +20 Attack Power and +10 Hit Rating
Stark Ametrine +20 Attack Power and +10 Haste Rating
Wicked Ametrine +20 Attack Power and +10 Critical Strike Raing

Purple (Red or Blue)
Balanced Dreadstone +20 Attack Power and +15 Stamina
Guardian's Dreadstone +10 Expertise Rating and +15 Stamina

Prismatic (Any Socket)
Nightmare Tear +10 All Stats

 

stassart

Wouldn't it be better just to list which one's to use?

Red
Precise Cardinal Ruby +20 Expertise (below expertise cap)
Bright Cardinal Ruby +40 Attack Power (at expertise cap)

Yellow
Rigid King's Amber +20 Hit Rating (below spell hit cap and need more than 10)

Orange (Red or Yellow)
Accurate Ametrine +10 Expertise Rating and +10 Hit Rating (yellow socket bonus worthwhile and below expertise cap)
Pristine Ametrine +20 Attack Power and +10 Hit Rating (need 10 hit for spell hit cap, yellow socket bonus, at expertise cap)
Wicked Ametrine +20 Attack Power and +10 Critical Strike Raing (yellow socket, at spell hit and expertise cap, and socket bonus is better than using a 40 AP or yellow socket needed for meta)

Purple (Red or Blue)
Guardian's Dreadstone +10 Expertise Rating and +15 Stamina (to use blue socket to hit expertise cap and meet meta, better than Nightmare's Tear if below expertise cap)

Prismatic (Any Socket)
Nightmare Tear +10 All Stats (used to meet blue socket meta and blue socket not needed to meet expertise cap)

shaman_hep Healing Equivalency Point combatlog parser

 

Rouncer

No.

The TTT is to help a player understand how to play as Enhancement, it is not meant to tell them how to play. The difference is in the understanding and I don't see any value in adding information that is readily available on Wowhead or Thottbot or the Armory. EP values tell you which gems to use in your gear so there is no need for the TTT to contain any more information about them. The meta gems are a bit more confusing so if there were more viable meta options then the TTT would be updated about them but for the regular stat gems there is no reason to include more info.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Rouncer

updated the section on runspeed

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Malan

Both of you should take your 'thoughts' to one of the discussion threads and then come back here when you have some actual facts.

 

MirnyiAtom

would be nice if someone edit starting post with link to new enhsim site
EnhSim - Home