Hunter: PvE DPS in WotLK (Cataclysm update pending) - Page 2

Garby · 05/11/09, 5:36 AM

Crusher was misplaced due to me editing the article late at night; I've fixed it.
ES didn't have a description because quite frankly it is an incredibly boring glyph and the tables are sorted based on "you should have these" anyway - but I did add a description to appease the great Spam gods.

Which gems are missing? I just went over the table and it looks fine to me. Unless you're referring to the MP5 gems, in which case I've intentionally omitted them for the same reason that I don't have Spirit gems in the table: they're trash.

Fixed the line on Har's macro thread.

Added your addon to the article (prominently, I might add). I also added your macros on pets to it, although quite frankly everyone I know has Bloodthirsty in their build making a pet food macro (or pet food in general) pointless. It might be okay for levelers but this guide really isn't aimed at them - although they might certainly read it, and find it useful. (In any event it's much easier to use AutoBar for that stuff, I think).

Nakari · 05/11/09, 6:00 AM

The description of Wild Quiver still states "A poor talent" (which it isn't anymore). Additionally, you should perhaps add Enchant Weapon - Accuracy to the one hand enchants. Even though hit and crit are not as valuable as Agi/AP, it has nearly double the itemization budget compared to 26 agility, and still significantly more than 65 AP, so it is a decent choice if you are not hit capped.

Spamurai · 05/11/09, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by Garby

Which gems are missing? I just went over the table and it looks fine to me. Unless you're referring to the MP5 gems, in which case I've intentionally omitted them for the same reason that I don't have Spirit gems in the table: they're trash.

It turns out it was just wowhead being slow, therefore not loading the gems... My bad! Thanks for the other updates

Garby · 05/11/09, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nakari

The description of Wild Quiver still states "A poor talent" (which it isn't anymore). Additionally, you should perhaps add Enchant Weapon - Accuracy to the one hand enchants. Even though hit and crit are not as valuable as Agi/AP, it has nearly double the itemization budget compared to 26 agility, and still significantly more than 65 AP, so it is a decent choice if you are not hit capped.

I missed the Wild Quiver change, thanks for pointing it out. The talent's description is now accurate.

I had thought I inserted Accuracy into the list of weapon enchants a long, long time ago, but it seems I didn't - this has also been fixed.

Spamurai · 05/12/09, 11:30 AM

Here's an additional macro that will automatically switch to your best ammo for bosses, and back to cheap ammo for trash. Simply modify it by putting your own ammo names in place of mine. Additionally, if you're not a survival hunter, replace Explosive Shot with whatever shot you use first in your priority list.

#showtooltip
/cast Explosive Shot
/script if (UnitLevel(”target”) <= 0) then EquipItemByName(”Mammoth Cutters”); else EquipItemByName(”Frostfire Bullets”); end

Garby · 05/12/09, 11:40 AM

Article updated:

-Cleaned up formatting in the Macro section.
-Added Spamurai's ammo macro to the list.
-Noted special Aimed Shot behavior (Sniper Training).

Edit: Ninja solved the issue with the Master's Call link in the table of contents linking you to the front page. >_>

Third edit: Updated the information in the table about shots, and significantly modified its formatting.

Snowcrasher · 05/14/09, 3:50 PM

A couple notes:
- Silencing shot is now a PVE DPS talent for Marks as it was taken off the GCD in 3.1 (thus can be macroed in with another shot). I would suggest updating the talent summary for it and adding to the overview of shots section.
- Improved Unholy Presence was changed in 3.1 to not affect party members so raiders usually should be using Cat's swiftness or Tuskerr's Vitality (increased mobility > DPS stats)

Spamurai · 05/14/09, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Snowcrasher

A couple notes:
- Silencing shot is now a PVE DPS talent for Marks as it was taken off the GCD in 3.1 (thus can be macroed in with another shot). I would suggest updating the talent summary for it and adding to the overview of shots section.
- Improved Unholy Presence was changed in 3.1 to not affect party members so raiders usually should be using Cat's swiftness or Tuskerr's Vitality (increased mobility > DPS stats)

With mana efficiency already low as MM, taking Silencing Shot is a DPS loss on any fight long enough to force you to use viper.

Rezdan · 05/15/09, 3:53 AM

Mana efficiency is not quite the issue it was before Spamurai. Silencing Shot is a net dps gain for most Ulduar fights and for the fight modelled by the spreadsheet.

Antiganon · 05/24/09, 12:26 PM

You may want to consider adding [Titanium Weapon Chain] under One-Hand Weapon Enchants.

While its budget is definitely lower than accuracy, and it provides no crit rating, it is significantly cheaper (roughly 90% cheaper, at least on my server)

Spamurai · 05/24/09, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Antiganon

You may want to consider adding [Titanium Weapon Chain] under One-Hand Weapon Enchants.

While its budget is definitely lower than accuracy, and it provides no crit rating, it is significantly cheaper (roughly 90% cheaper, at least on my server)

The point of this article is maximizing your damage output, not minimizing your expenditures.

Antiganon · 05/24/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Spamurai

The point of this article is maximizing your damage output, not minimizing your expenditures.

In that case, [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Greater Savagery] should be removed. You wouldn't put Massacre on a 2h you plan to upgrade soon, and likewise, you wouldn't put Accuracy on a 1h you plan to upgrade soon.

Hagen · 06/06/09, 8:47 PM

Just want to mention that there are some WotLK mobs that are immune to fire damage (as mentioned regarding Explosive Shot) namely fire elementals in Ahn'kahet and Ulduar. (trash mobs before General Vezax)

Both parts of Chimera Shot are nature damage and I would rephrase the Serpent Sting part to "is based on the damage Serpent Sting does over it's full duration." except if you know it explicitly calculates the damage over 21s even without the glyph. (just a matter of wording but this might keep the fact accurate through possible changes)

As of 3.1.3 Improved Hunter's Mark is better than other filler talents like Improved Barrage or Improved Steady Shot even for your personal DPS, while the glyph isn't worthwhile with less than 3 hunter's in the raid. (Exact numbers have to be checked with the spreadsheet)

Master Marksman now solved the MM mana issues due to the 3.1.3 changes.

Rapid Recuperation is disputed as of 3.1.3 because the mana isn't necessarily needed anymore, before it was a key mana management for MM in longer bossfights.

T.N.T. 6% damage increase to the shot that does 35%-45% of the hunter's damage is more than a good filler I think.

While Lock and Load though having the potential for a big DPS boost is often doubted because of it's unreliable RNG effect.

Professions:
Jewelcrafting can give 33 agility instead of 66 AP too. (just because you mentioned the choice with blacksmithing)
Engineering gives Nitro Boosts to boots (16 crit rating and 2s runspeed increase at 3min CD), Hyperspeed Accelerators (340haste for 10s at 1min CD) or Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket (fire damage every 45s) to gloves.
Tailoring has Swordguard Embroidery (300AP for 15s proc at 45s ICD) to cloaks.

I hope this was helpful and I didn't push things to hard.

Rezdan · 06/25/09, 3:20 AM

Great work so far Garby. I'll try to summarize some of the recent extensive theorycrafting regarding the viability of Armor Penetration especially with the increasing availability of ArPen gear for you to add.

Basically, for MM Hunters, once the static (non-proc) value of ArPen reaches approximately 650 (including ArPen from gems), ArPen has the possibility of outweighing Agility as the stat that most contributes to dps. Those with on-proc ArPen trinkets such as [Mjolnir Runestone] would see this threshold much earlier, around the 550 ArPen range.

Theorycrafting shows that MM Hunters at this threshold would procede to spec out of Imp Arcane Shot in favor of Imp Steady Shot and Imp Barrage and subsequently completely remove Arcane Shot from their shot priority for a net dps increase. This would result in an MM Hunter Shot rotation of: Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Steady Shot x 3(or 4 depending on Haste)

The theorycrafting for ArPen geared MM Hunters also shows the increased value of the Imp Aspect of the Hawk and Steady Shot glyphs over that of the Kill Shot glyph currently described as the best min/max glyph. This also means that it may be best to mention ArPen gems as possible BIS once you're able to achieve the respective thresholds.

The ArPen theorycrafting has only been "proven" as increased dps for MM specced Hunters. You may also wish to add a caveat that while theorycrafting shows ArPen as ideal at the thresholds mentioned above, the theorycrafting is based on a standard stand-and-shoot fight where one is able to execute shots optimally - not something that is true for most RNG based movement-requiring boss fights. Also, the difference between DPS from 1 Agi and DPS from 1 ArPen at these thresholds is still quite small but increases quite fast the more ArPen you have.

Edit:
I would also like to add that Shandara's Spreadsheet has been updated with the ability to model waiting for a better shot. It's possible for users to set this wait time in the spreadsheet.

Repaxan · 06/27/09, 12:37 PM

The "Enchant Weapon - Superior Potency" is omitted, provides 65 AP to a weapon.