Druid: Balance PvE (updated for Cataclysm release) - Page 5

relientKitten · 01/02/11, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by Linnara

In case you haven't seen, Rawr (http://elitistjerks.com/rawr.php) also has a usable Moonkin module. A brief try makes me think it's giving sane results. One interesting thing to note is that the optimizer goes against the standard gemming/enchanting advice by favoring crit over haste beyond the haste breakpoint at around 1425 (which is the highest breakpoint I can reach with my equipment at the moment). This seems reasonable, although I'm not completely sure it's right; it isn't consistent with the advice of WrathCalcs. It also suggests a Ember Shadowspirit Diamond over a Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond, against standard advice; I haven't looked closely into why.

The one thing worth watching out for if you try it is that there's something strange about its OOM predictions; for my equipment/talents/glyphs, it predicts going OOM in under 5 minutes, whereas WrathCalcs predicts something more like 15 minutes, and I've never gotten anywhere close to going OOM in practice (although I haven't done any serious raiding yet). Because of that, if anyone else is trying it, I would suggest telling it to optimize for burst damage, as opposed to overall damage.

The reason for crit being more highly valued than haste appears to be due to the mana use projections by the Rawr Moonkin module. I removed Revitalize as an available buff, going from no projected OOM state to a projected OOM at 7m12s, and I was immediately advised to regem from Reckless to Potent; shortening the Berserk Timer to sub-420s allowed Reckless to reign supreme once again. Crit does not negatively affect your mana pool while the more Haste you have, the more quickly you are utilizing your mana supply and it would seem that the model attempts to balance this. Of course, more haste means reaching Euphoria more quickly but I assume that is being taken into consideration.

I recall a similar situation regarding the 'Time to OOM' determination during the module's Wrath era and many suggested setting the combat length to five minutes or less. This may again be the case.

Related to the mana consideration, the closer you are to the projected OOM time, the more highly the module values the Ember Shadowspirit Diamond in comparison to the Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond. However, when optimizing with a rather low combat time (100s in this instance), it still suggests an Ember due to the current Chaotic requirements. Forcing it to use a Chaotic resulted in it simply telling me to swap my second Reckless to a Brilliant; it seems that Rawr finds gemming for it it to be too much of a DPS loss.

Tofuu · 01/02/11, 4:11 PM

Wowhead showed a 30 percent proc chance, as shown in here: Volcano - Spell - World of Warcraft

Also, the ICD should be 60 seconds and not 45 seconds for Darkmoon Card Volcano with a proc lasting 12 seconds... Are you able to upload a parse showing the ICD of the trinket to be 45 seconds?

Ashaera · 01/02/11, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tofuu

Also, the ICD should be 60 seconds and not 45 seconds for Darkmoon Card Volcano with a proc lasting 12 seconds... Are you able to upload a parse showing the ICD of the trinket to be 45 seconds?

The ICD is 45seconds - Tested it this afternoon, time between procs were roughly 50, 47, 48, 50 & 47 seconds.

Hidden · 01/02/11, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tofuu

Wowhead showed a 30 percent proc chance, as shown in here: Volcano - Spell - World of Warcraft

Also, the ICD should be 60 seconds and not 45 seconds for Darkmoon Card Volcano with a proc lasting 12 seconds... Are you able to upload a parse showing the ICD of the trinket to be 45 seconds?

My bad about the proc chance, it's even 30% in my spreadsheet but for some reason I had 35% in my head.

I'm sure about the ICD though because I've had a shaman in my guild chaincast just so I could see the time between procs before I bought it. It was always between 46 and 50 seconds.
Here's also a log of today if you want further proof:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
EDIT: Same log in English:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Rogsen and me (Faerra) were both wearing the Darkmoon Card: Volcano.
We both had exactly 26.6% uptime on the buff (that's >400 average intelligence prior to any multiplicative buffs or talents) and if you do a log query for the buff, you can see lots of procs within 50 seconds of eachother. You can also see that the proc did an average of ~2.4k noncrit damage for both of us.

Zadig · 01/03/11, 5:46 AM

hey, great guide nice job as usual!

first of all sorry for my bad english i'll try to be understandable.

My question is a double one and is about the t11 4 pieces bonus

- How should we consider crit? is it still worth it when 4pieces bonus is reached?

- Does the bonus consider dots as spells, and if he does, should we cast 3 nukes before refreshing MF so the crit bonus isn't wasted?

Monosnow · 01/03/11, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Zadig

hey, great guide nice job as usual!

first of all sorry for my bad english i'll try to be understandable.

My question is a double one and is about the t11 4 pieces bonus

- How should we consider crit? is it still worth it when 4pieces bonus is reached?

- Does the bonus consider dots as spells, and if he does, should we cast 3 nukes before refreshing MF so the crit bonus isn't wasted?

to the frist question, as Int is 2 more powful than cri so ilvl is the fisrt thing should be considered in the gear selection part. And in gem part, haste > cri, Int >> haste , there's need to worry about the cri...
whether u get 4t11 or not, cri will never be a stat that should be consider.

and i dont get 4t11...so i cant test it, my suggestion is that to get 4t11 and test it by urself =.=
its easy in dummy mode

Zadig · 01/03/11, 7:45 PM

sorry i didn't make myself clear enough, my question was more like does crit become less "powerful" than mastery with the bonus?

ofc it's a secondary stat, but obviously sometimes u have to choose :/

M� nze · 01/04/11, 3:38 AM

Tailoring: Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 spellpower for 15 seconds, 20% proc on spellcast, 60 second cooldown (check this). The average benefit is around 140 spellpower, minus the 50 Int you usually have on your cloak, which gives a DPS equivalent of around 60 Int.

It was actually mentioned on the last page, but still wasnt fixed in the OP. This enchant gives 580 Int (Link) providing aprox 140Int.

• Hamlet · 01/04/11, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by birdienumnum

Finally I can write in threads.. Have you been able to locate and fix the problems? Its mainly, as said the gems that turns up with Err:502 and some reforging is bugged as well.. Tell me how I can help you locate the error and I'll do it : D

Just post some screenshots maybe? I think I may have encountered something similar working on the Resto sheet.

Originally Posted by Naboo9

I'd appreciate it if I could get some clarification on the use of Thorns as noted in the TTT.

This is best for the discussion thread, but just briefly, WC lets you play with Thorns by setting the number of procs you get per Thorns and seeing how much DPS it adds if you use it on cooldown.

Originally Posted by Monosnow

i have used wrathcalcs for a long time to improve and test my boomkin's dps, but the lastest vesion seems to have some bug?
I set '5% Crit Chance:' in 'Raid Buffs/Debuffs' to be false, then all the data which is 'XXXDPS' appears to be abnormal.
for example, 1 point int provide like 892DPS????

This is because you now have to update the data tables ("DPS" and "MP5" values) manually. When you've made all the changes you want to make to your setup, press F9 to make Excel recompute everything. The sheet became too slow to use when it automatically updated after any change.

Originally Posted by Hidden

I think this needs two adjustments:
First off the JC rare trinket is definitely worth mentioning. Even in full BiS gear, the spreadsheet shows it as superior than Witching Hourglass and most 359 trinkets. At lower gear levels it's even better than that.
Secondly, WrathCalcs doesn't seem to include the Darkmoon Card: Volcano yet and my own calculations show it as comparable or even superior to 372 Theralion's Mirror.
EDIT: I've checked WrathCalcs again. It does include DC:V but with a 12/60 uptime which is way below its actual uptime. The proc DPS is also way too low.

I've heard the 45 number in a lot of places now, I'll put that in next time. What's the JC trinket again?

Originally Posted by M� nze

It was actually mentioned on the last page, but still wasnt fixed in the OP. This enchant gives 580 Int (Link) providing aprox 140Int.

Yeah, I should update that. Is 50 seconds still the best know ICD?

birdienumnum · 01/05/11, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Just post some screenshots maybe? I think I may have encountered something similar working on the Resto sheet.

This is the errors I encounter running WrathCalcs No Tables (happens in the other one as well).

The first one being when I wanna pick another gem. The second one is when I wanna pick another reforge stat, and the last 2 things are from the List of gems and the long "code" thing is when i click on one of those "Err:502" in the gem list. Hope it helped a little!

Pretty annoying hope you can figure it out so I can be able to use it.

zaulsiin · 01/05/11, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by birdienumnum

This is the errors I encounter running WrathCalcs No Tables (happens in the other one as well).

I was in the process of posting nearly identical screenshots, but you beat me to it!

Just to try and provide further information, I've been experiencing precisely the same issues in OpenOffice v3.2.1 on a Windows XP machine. The 502 error (which is an invalid argument exception) appears when using both TreeCalcs and WrathCalcs, both with tables and without, and regardless of whether I respond "Yes" or "No" to the "This file contains links to other files. [...]" notification that pops up when I open the sheets.
Hope this helps.