Based on Aldriana thread on rogue forum (I steal him some questions, hope he don't mind), there are many things that need to be re-assessed.
Some question seems stupid in a WolK point of view, but we cannot be sure of anything without serious testing. All this testing could be handled by one person, but having all those data documented and shared in the same place will be useful for any current or future theorycrafter that will work on Death Knight class.
Every answers will have to be documented with screenshots and/or logs or will be ignored.
A/ General:
1. How much armor do bosses have?
2. Is Rune regeneration affected by Heroism/BloodLust?
3. How Blood Tap is working with the new rune system?
4. Can we consider that, with the new strike queuing system, we play like there was no latency at all?
B/ Strike:
1. Does a dodge/missed strike consume Rune or Runic Power?
2. Does the Off-Hand strike with ToT still cannot be dodge/missed?
3. What is the PPM of Killing Machine?
4. What is the PPM of Fallen Crusader and Cinderglacier?
C/ Disease:
1. Is the diseases crit chance based on spell or melee crit rating?
2. Is the diseases crit chance recalculated on every tick, on 1st apply or on every refresh?
3. Are the diseases percentage damage bonus (Cinderglacier, ToT...) recalculated on every tick, on 1st apply or on every refresh?
4. When overwriting disease, you don't delay the next tick?
D/ Spell:
1. Does a Death Coil spell consume Runic Power?
2. Does an missed Howling Blast or Icy Touch consume Rune?
3. Does a Rime'd Howling Blast give you Runic Power? If yes, does it depend of the number of targets?
4. How much runic power do we get from with a talented anti-magic shell per magical damage with 1 or 2 points?
E/ Ghoul & Gargoyle:
1. Does the Permanent Ghoul benefit from Presence bonus?
2. Does the Non-Permanent Ghoul benefit from Presence bonus?
3. Does the Gargoyle benefit from Presence Bonus?
4. Does the Gargoyle have an haste cap?
5. Is the Gargoyle Strike formula still 120 + AP x 0.333
6. Does the non-permanent pets stats are based on the player stat on the cast time or they evolve with the player?
7. Does the non-permanent benefits from Heroism/BloodLust?
8. What is the Strength to AP conversion for the ghoul?
If you want some questions regarding DK mechanism to be added, send me a PM, I will add then.
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Answers:
A.2: Yes, Heroism/Bloodlust speeds up the rate at which runes are returned.
As an added note, getting debuffed with things that slow your attack speed will also slow the rate that runes are returned.
A.3: Blood Tap is pretty much as it was in WotLK, but it doesn't generate 10 RP anymore. The duration is still 20 sec and it can be canceled via macro. It normally chooses the first rune from the left to the right to be activated.
If both blood runes were on cooldown and the first/activated one was the rune with the higher cooldown, the second rune will keep recharging like it did before. If the first/activated rune was the rune with the lower cooldown, the second rune will recharge from 10 (affected by haste). (Cayseth)
B.1: No. It only consume GCD
C.1a: It seems to be spell crit, though frost fever is never critting atm. I think they just copied the T9/4pc bonus and forgot to change it. (Cayseth)
C.1b: It's probably safe to say that Blood Plague is operating on the melee crit rate as the change between 29.6% and 26.9 is unlikely to be sampling error, but Frost Fever may be operating on the spell crit rate as its change is insignificant. It may actually explain why Frost Fever is currently only critting at 1.5x (NemoX)
C.3: Damage bonuses seem to be recalculated on every tick. Your disease will use the amount of AP you had at application of disease for the entire duration. (Sakuratei)
C.4: Disease ticks are not delayed by refreshing the disease. (Sakuratei)
D.1: Death Coil consumes RP, RP cost is not refunded if you miss. (kc102)
D.2: Missed HBs and ITs do not consume the rune.(kc102)
D.3: Rime HB generates 10 RP (2/2 CotG), does not change depending on the number of targets.(kc102)
D.4: One point into it provides RP Generation on par with current numbers.(kc102)
E.1: Ghouls benefit from the 15% haste of Unholy Presence and the 10% damage of Frost presence. (Consider's Unholy O.P)
E/6+7 Non-permanent pets are based on your stats when summoning them (that's why you pop cooldowns at that point). (dr_AllCOM3)
Change log
01-oct: AMS Question. D4
04-oct: Some questions answered.
07-oct: Some more questions answered.
D/1 - Death Coil consumes RP, RP cost is not refunded if you miss.
D/2 - Missed HBs and ITs do not consume the rune.
D/3 - Rime HB generates 10 RP (2/2 CotG), does not change depending on the number of targets.
A.3: Blood Tap is pretty much as it was in WotLK, but it doesn't generate 10 RP anymore. The duration is still 20 sec and it can be cancelled via macro.
It normally chooses the first rune from the left to the right to be activated.
If both blood runes were on cooldown and the first/activated one was the rune with the higher cooldown, the second rune will keep recharging like it did before.
If the first/activated rune was the rune with the lower cooldown, the second rune will recharge from 10 (affected by haste).
The only thing I've been wondering about is using it without Reaping/Blood of the North. With two blood runes ready using BS->BT it activates the second blood rune and not the one recharging. With Reaping/Blood of the North, it'll choose the one recharging and gives you two ready death runes.
C.1: It seeme to be spell crit, though frost fever is never critting atm. I think they just copied the T9/4pc bonus and forgot to change it.
E/4 No, but I think it doesn't benefit from haste anymore.
E/6+7 Non-permanent pets are based on your stats when summoning them (that's why you pop cooldowns at that point).
Gear plus horn of winter (32.41% melee crit, 27.77% spell crit)
Blood Plague: 2166 total tics, of which 646 were crits, representing a 29.6% crit rate
Frost Fever: 2170 total tics, of which 562 were crits, representing a 25.9% crit rate
Test 2:
(Unfortunately got interrupted by a server restart)
Gear alone ( 29.92% melee crit, 27.77% spell crit)
Blood Plague: 1186 total tics, of which 319 critted, representing a 26.9% crit rate
Frost Fever: 1186 total tics, of which 296 were crits, representing a 25.0% crit rate
It's probably safe to say that Blood Plague is operating on the melee crit rate as the change between 29.6% and 26.9 is unlikely to be sampling error, but Frost Fever may be operating on the spell crit rate as its change is insignificant. It may actually explain why Frost Fever is currently only critting at 1.5x
I tried earlier to get a parse on the training dummies in Undercity, ended up having nearly the same crit rate between Frost Fever and Blood Plague. I think this could be explained by Critical Mass being up 23% on the dummy, yielding an average increase of a bit over 1%
Last edited by NemoX : 10/06/10 at 11:32 PM.
Reason: clarification
It's probably safe to say that Blood Plague is operating on the melee crit rate as the change between 29.6% and 26.9 is unlikely to be sampling error, but Frost Fever may be operating on the spell crit rate as its change is insignificant. It may actually explain why Frost Fever is currently only critting at 1.5x
This would make sense as FF is applied by a spell (IT or HB) and BP is applied by a melee strike (PS).
B/3: Preliminary testing indicates that it's still ~5 PPM. I'll run a longer test when I get home and post screenshots of the results, but it's definitely not any lower.
B/3: Preliminary testing indicates that it's still ~5 PPM. I'll run a longer test when I get home and post screenshots of the results, but it's definitely not any lower.
I presume that is for the full points spent in KM to get the 5ppm meaning the 3 points required to cap it, but I’m wondering how that is split between the points. PPM per 1 point spent etc. 3 does not go into 5 and unless each point increases the PPM by exactly 1.66666... then 1 of the points of KM increases the PPM more than another. Very few will take less than 3 points in KM, but for the basis of completeness if may be worth looking at?
Yeah I'm going to do a more thorough investigation tonight and it would be nice if someone else could help confirm my findings. I should also note that the proc chance appears to only be dependent on base weapon speed, so to a DK without Imp. Icy Talons and no gear it will always show as 20% higher than it actually is, from the haste granted by Frost Specialization.
C3/ Damage bonuses seem to be recalculated on every tick. While I was testing C4, I had my proc items unequipped and Frost Fever gained damage when an Unholy DK applied Epon Plague on the target dummy. AP values are not reconsidered for every tick, your disease will use the amount of AP you had at application of disease for the entire duration.
C4/ Disease ticks are not delayed by refreshing the disease. Using one IT and letting FF run it's duration resulted in 11 ticks, while using four IT's back to back resulted in 13 ticks.
A2 - Is Rune regeneration affected by Heroism/BloodLust?
Yes, Heroism/Bloodlust speeds up the rate at which runes are returned.
As an added note, getting debuffed with things that slow your attack speed(i.e. Malleable Goo) will also slow the rate that runes are returned.
Last edited by DragonsVirtue : 10/14/10 at 10:40 AM.
A2 - Is Rune regeneration affected by Heroism/BloodLust?
Yes, Heroism/Bloodlust speeds up the rate at which runes are returned.
As an added note, getting debuffed with things that slow your attack speed(i.e. Malleable Goo) will also slow the rate that runes are returned.
This confirms that rune refreshing rate is tied to the Melee Attack Speed Modifier.
Basically 5500 physical plus half your mana as damage, capping at 15,000.
To test this, my feral guild mate strapped on his DPS gear (to avoid armor procs), I grabbed my priest, and we went into the instance. During the fight, the boss performed this ability twice on me (Disc Priest, armor of 11,130) and twice on him (Feral in bear form, armor of 27,971). Since he has no mana, he would take 5,500 damage, and I would take the full 15,000, both of which are entirely physical.
So I took 9562 both times, and he took 1992 and 1993.
Using the new formula, my reduction percent is 11130 / (11130 + 82 * 2167.5 - 158167.5) = 36.26 percent, so the damage I take would be 0.6374 * 15000 = 9561.4. Consistent with the new formula (the old formula would yield 8840 damage).
For him, you must also take into account the innate 12% damage reduction of a feral tank:
27971 / (27971 + 82 * 2167.5 - 158167.5) = 0.5884
So his reduction would be (1 - 0.12) * (1 - 0.5884) = 0.3622, yielding damage from a 5500 attack of 1992 -- also consistent with the logs.
So, this pretty much proves we are using the new scaling of armor on ICC bosses, and yet we've had quite a bit of reduced mitigation thanks to the reduction of base armor as well as having tank gear getting less stamina at a given ilvl than dps gear.
The result of the changes in these formulas are that a tank with 32,000 armor would have 59.95% reduction against a lvl 83 boss instead of the 65.80% we had before; this means tanks are innately taking 18.25% more damage. That's quite a bit.
With that someone better at complicated math than myself could possibly calculate the exact amounts and give a solid answer as to exactly how much Armor Bosses in Cata should have?
I did some napkin math on DS and mastery, and came up with a formula for raw damage offset per DS used.
Variables: x=dmg/5s, y=mastery%, z=absorb value, n=%not mitigated, h=raw damage offset per DS.
So, the formula I used is (.435x)y=z, so (.435x+z)/n=h.
I slapped this into a spreadsheet, and discovered that for any given % mastery, any amount of survived raw damage that puts you above the 10% minimum heal threshold for a DS will result in the same value for h. Given this, there should be a line where due to DR of avoidance stats, haste for rune CDs becomes a better survivability stat than dodge/parry.
So I Have more done on the Spreadsheet, but right now it's just a framework for rough averages, and I don't know what to do next to derive values for incoming damage reduced for avoidance vs incoming damage reduced for haste. Anyone want to take what I have and take a swing at turning it into useful numbers instead of rough theory?
Solving the equation: Change in AP = Change in Character's Strength * 1.4 * AP per Strength for each pair of points gives remarkably consistent results:
It is not one of the questions up there but it did occur to me as being important, the DK mastery appears unaffected by healing reduction debuffs.
Testing was very simple, I applied a blood shield dueling a rogue, he ate away the blood shield and applied wound, check # in recount for absorbs, repeat this time with wound up. The numbers matched.
10/01/10, 10:02 AM
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