Endless Winter Tier 1 would be a possibility, if they solve Blood's Bloat issues then we could easily put two points into that for free Interrupts, yes.
You mention a scenario like Jaraxxus, where the constant add-spawn flow allows for a Tank to generate a decent amount of Threat while DPS are killing those. Yes, there it would work.
You've also got a (sort of) Iron Council scenario where there's... 2-3 spells to interrupt consecutively so you'd interrupt every other, but still on a 10 second basis.
There's still the Vezax Scenario however: Shadow Crash is like heaven for Magic using DPS, for a DK Tank however it means more issues since the fight as a whole means a lot less SoB (he hits a lot less, spending a lot of time casting) and right now its basically just about all-out war (least in my own Post-4.0.1 experience on him) between my Threat and DPS Threat until Animus spawns, which is quite some time into the fight unfortunately. With Vezax you can't even Taunt the Boss (or Add) so once you're overaggroed he'll go on a killing spree due to our OT Threat being horrible. Well this is a temporary thing since the Rune Strike change will be on Live soon, but that apart on another Vezax fight DK Tank Interrupting is currently in my experience... Impossible. Even post-Rune Strike change, a scenario like this would already take a large chunk out of our SoB procs, then add in 120 RP per-minute for Interrupts? Ouch.
The 8 second Cooldown on Runes will count for something since it'll help generate addition RP per-minute as well as additional Strikes, but Rune Strike's cost will also go up.
As for Virulence... Rather odd, they buff the Paladin Passive Spell Hit to 8% for both Specs (Prot + Ret) however Virulence is still a Talent + 6% for us.
Yeah it would be nice to have that extra spell hit thrown into our specs, or make everything off the melee hit cap. But even reducing the cost of Mind Freeze to 10 RP would be nice to put it more in line with kick.
GC has posted that he is currently comfortable with diseaseless blood. Particularly this statement is useful,
Originally Posted by GC
"When dps specs were ignoring diseases, we made changes, because the whole DK rotation was based on applying diseases. That's true to a much lesser extent for tanks, but we try to have pretty simple rotation for tanks anyway because they have a lot of other things to worry about and are often having to deal with very dynamic situations compared to what a PvE dps DK might be doing."
One of the objections to diseaseless that we have seen is 'you should not get cosy with a rotation that might change', but with GC's statement above I think that objection is nullified for the forseeable future.
I'd like to update OP to include a diseaseless commentary. The stand-out weakness it has, aside from lower threat on heart strikes, is you must rely on someone else to apply the attack-speed debuff. However since that can be applied more easily now than in 3.x, it seems to be a lesser practical issue when combined with ICC buff aura making everyone overgear the encounters. At L85, the practical issue of trusting another class to reliably debuff your boss will become a central issue in evaluating diseaseless.
Even if you go diseaseless, it won't be for the whole fight. Outbreak is still a ranged disease applicator that you can start the fight with. Combigned with epidemic, you really only have to apply diseases sparingly throughout a fight. By that time, you should already be locked in on threat or just simply ignore disease application till Outbreak comes off cooldown.
100% diseaseless however just won't exist because of that.
100% diseaseless however just won't exist because of that.
However, it does now! I understand and concede to your point about 100% disease-less not going to be the norm when we hit level 85, as we will have outbreak. We don’t at the moment, so the viability and usefulness of 100% disease-less right NOW need's to be given more attention. I completely agree that in a few weeks this will be a moot point, but you must also concede that until those few weeks are up, playing disease-less is appealing with its very simplistic approach to rune management.
I'd make a list of Pros VS. Cons: Pros:
Gain of up to two more Death Strikes on a per-minute basis, if you spread them out far enough you can increase Blood Shield uptime by up to 20 seconds maximum. You might also go for additional Heart Strikes instead, so it can be a gain of up to 4 more Heart Strikes on a per-minute basis.
In AoE-Tanking situations you gain "Snap-Threat" since you don't need to use 3 GCDs and 50% of your Resources to apply & spread diseases (Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Pestilence). You can just go Death and Decay - Blood Boil straight off.
You save yourself 3 Talent Points since Epidemic becomes entirely worthless.
Many other people can provide the -20% Attack Speed Debuff. If you have even 1 DPS DK in your Raid you already know for sure it'll always be up for example.
Cons:
You will not benefit from the Blood Swarm portion of Crimson Scourge which weakens the Talent's worth. Blood-Caked Blade loses 50% of it's damage, so the talent becomes slightly lack-luster.
Slight Threat-Per-Second loss due to Heart Strike hitting for 20% less damage and Blood Boil hitting for 10% less damage.
You lose the Utility provided by Frost Fever, the -20% Attack Speed Debuff.
Heart Strike hits for 20% less damage.
Blood Boil hits for 10% less damage.
I think that's all, unless I forgot/missed something. A commentary or something like a paragraph explaining play style difference between Disease and Disease-less or something would be nice to have as well, yes. Good thinking.
Edit: Forgot damage loss to Heart Strike and Blood Boil, added in now.
I'd make a list of Pros VS. Cons: Pros:
Gain of up to two more Death Strikes on a per-minute basis, if you spread them out far enough you can increase Blood Shield uptime by up to 20 seconds maximum. You might also go for additional Heart Strikes instead, so it can be a gain of up to 4 more Heart Strikes on a per-minute basis.
In AoE-Tanking situations you gain "Snap-Threat" since you don't need to use 3 GCDs and 50% of your Resources to apply & spread diseases (Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Pestilence). You can just go Death and Decay - Blood Boil straight off.
You save yourself 3 Talent Points since Epidemic becomes entirely worthless.
Many other people can provide the -20% Attack Speed Debuff. If you have even 1 DPS DK in your Raid you already know for sure it'll always be up for example.
Cons:
You will not benefit from the Blood Swarm portion of Crimson Scourge which weakens the Talent's worth. Blood-Caked Blade loses 50% of it's damage, so the talent becomes slightly lack-luster.
Slight Threat-Per-Second loss due to Heart Strike hitting for 20% less damage and Blood Boil hitting for 10% less damage.
You lose the Utility provided by Frost Fever, the -20% Attack Speed Debuff.
I think that's all, unless I forgot/missed something. A commentary or something like a paragraph explaining play style difference between Disease and Disease-less or something would be nice to have as well, yes. Good thinking.
Diseaseless completely will never be better. PS provides a BB, which needs to be kept up anyways for the 10% physical damage debuff. Going diseaseless would only mean wasting a blood rune later in the fight. DS converts BR to DR, but doesn't mean that you have to use HS for those DR. You can still DS with those DR and benefit from the shield for high damage fights.
All in all, diseaseless vs disease is trading threat for survivability, which I think is a limited benefit because 2 additional DS per minute is not much of a survivability gain. I don't think this is particularly needed at the moment because we out gear everything anyways. In cata, this becomes moot because of outbreak and "fixed" rune regen (foretold in blizzcon). We will have enough runes to apply diseases as well as DS plenty.
As for snap aggro, I agree there is nothing wrong with diseaseless snap aggro in the beginning. I personally DS>DnD>BB>HS>BT>Diseases. With the RS fix coming up, I doubt snap aggro will be an issue at all. In aoe situations, DnD>BB>Diseases>Pest>BT>BB. With reglyphing so convenient now, you can reglyph DnD for trash if you still have a problem with aoe aggro.
We don't necessarily need to maintain Scarlet Fever though. A Warrior provides the same Utility for example, and their Diminishing Shout over-rides our Scarlet Fever I believe. Well, something does. The bigger your Raid is, the less chance there is of someone not being able to provide the -20% Attack Speed Debuff or the -10% Physical Damage Debuff in one form or another. These sorts of things can now be applied easier than ever before due to the wide-spread amount of Classes that have gained Utility in 4.0.1.
As for the Threat loss: Post-Rune Regeneration and Rune Strike change in Beta I've currently never faced Threat issues unless a Hunter attacks a boss before I can get a Rune Strike on it or without Misdirecting me first. Mid-fight however its not a problem, I'm usually doubling, or at the very least 1/3rd ahead of any other DPS on Omen.
Right now one more Death Strike more or less barely makes a difference in most cases. We over-gear content and our Stats are like those of being in level 80 T11/12 Gear due to the 30% Zone-Wide Stat Buff in ICC. In 4 weeks we get a complete gear-reset with Cata moving the Level Cap to 85 though so we're back to the starting point: Farming Normal/Heroic mode Dungeons for Gear to get started into Raiding content. When we stop over-gearing content by insane amounts, every inch of Survivability you can get will most probably help.
The gain from going Disease-less will be halved due to Outbreak but it'll still be 1 more Death Strike on a per-minute basis which turns into 10 more seconds of Blood Shield uptime (maximum). In exchange you lose (which I forgot to add above) a small amount of TPS from Heart Strike hitting for 20% less damage and Blood Boil for 10% less damage. If Threat isn't an issue, and someone else provides both debuffs, what's stopping you?
Certainly not the fear of Blizzard breaking it any day now in Beta I'd say.
Diseaseless completely will never be better. PS provides a BB, which needs to be kept up anyways for the 10% physical damage debuff. Going diseaseless would only mean wasting a blood rune later in the fight. DS converts BR to DR, but doesn't mean that you have to use HS for those DR. You can still DS with those DR and benefit from the shield for high damage fights.
I don't think anyone is going to take Crimson Scourge for a boss spec. I won't even touch it for an all purpose or even just AoE spec because it's a terrible, terrible talent. Even if you were to take it, you would still lose 2 Death Runes (for all intents and purposes Blood operates with 2 Blood and 4 Death Runes on single target) every minute. On the other hand, Blood Runes are nearly worthless. Heart Strike doesn't hit hard enough even with diseases applied so you aren't sacrificing much between a Blood Boil and a Heart Strike.
If you can get away with having other classes apply the debuffs for you then you should definitely take that offer; especially for Scarlet Fever since Blood Boil is still on the spell hit table, Virulence still does not spell hit cap you even if you are geared for the melee special cap, Outbreak for some reason does not apply it either and Blood Boil misses consume the Rune unlike other misses.
That said, you can still run one Blood Rites rotation early in the pull with your DRW up but you don't even need to use IT or PS for it. Outbreak is up every second DRW anyway and most importantly it's up for the first one as well.
Also, even with Improved Blood Presence you will still have Rune regen down time. It is much better than on live but you will disappointed if you think you won't have dead GCDs - especially with a 2h due to Scent of Blood not scaling properly with slow weapons.
So in conclusion: Yes, diseaseless (not counting Outbreak) rotation is always better. Threat is no issue, Heart Strike does terrible damage and people aren't going to waste talent points on Crimson Scourge and Blood-Caked Blade anyway.
I don't think anyone is going to take Crimson Scourge for a boss spec. I won't even touch it for an all purpose or even just AoE spec because it's a terrible, terrible talent. Even if you were to take it, you would still lose 2 Death Runes (for all intents and purposes Blood operates with 2 Blood and 4 Death Runes on single target) every minute. On the other hand, Blood Runes are nearly worthless. Heart Strike doesn't hit hard enough even with diseases applied so you aren't sacrificing much between a Blood Boil and a Heart Strike.
If you can get away with having other classes apply the debuffs for you then you should definitely take that offer; especially for Scarlet Fever since Blood Boil is still on the spell hit table, Virulence still does not spell hit cap you even if you are geared for the melee special cap, Outbreak for some reason does not apply it either and Blood Boil misses consume the Rune unlike other misses.
That said, you can still run one Blood Rites rotation early in the pull with your DRW up but you don't even need to use IT or PS for it. Outbreak is up every second DRW anyway and most importantly it's up for the first one as well.
Also, even with Improved Blood Presence you will still have Rune regen down time. It is much better than on live but you will disappointed if you think you won't have dead GCDs - especially with a 2h due to Scent of Blood not scaling properly with slow weapons.
So in conclusion: Yes, diseaseless (not counting Outbreak) rotation is always better. Threat is no issue, Heart Strike does terrible damage and people aren't going to waste talent points on Crimson Scourge and Blood-Caked Blade anyway.
Without trying to address the differences: If you drop Epidemic, Crimson Scourge, and BCB, what will you put those 8 points in?
Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)
Without trying to address the differences: If you drop Epidemic, Crimson Scourge, and BCB, what will you put those 8 points in?
You make it sound as if there is a dearth of useful talents to pick up. I'd expect the base 31 points w/o crimson scourge would be fairly obvious, the only option 2/3 scent of blood vs. 2/3 bladed armor, though admittedly I haven't run any math on the value of the various other threat talents. Epidemic is obviously of marginal value if you're not using diseases, but virulence is very useful (as missed blood boils don't refund runes), and obviously at 85, lichborne will consume another 6 points, leaving only one additional point to spend.
Given that only pally tanks apply demo shout passively, I would expect that in the majority of situations you will have to blood boil yourself; still, a 40% increase on your one BB every 30 seconds is hardly a powerhouse of a talent. Of course, the talent could be valued higher in a threat-focused epidemic/disease build.
All that said, I suspect I'll be hanging on to crimson scourge at least for heroics, since I will probably not have an extra "single target" tank spec on hand at all times. However, I'm a casual/bad/scrub/etc., so people serious about optimizing their raid boss performance should probably be taking something better.
Without trying to address the differences: If you drop Epidemic, Crimson Scourge, and BCB, what will you put those 8 points in?
If not taking Epidemic, CS and BCB, you might go deeper in the Frost Tree for utillity. Something in the line off 31/10/0 , With Lichborn, On a Pale Horse and Endless Winter as utillity talents.
Runic Power Mastery actually seems quite decent since with glyphed Deathstrike, DS damage maxes out at 100RP. Our average RP is lower though due RS and an occasional DC, but if you bring the RP cap to 130RP, your average RP will come near 100.
The Unholy Talents just don't seem worth it, Desecration looks like a nice debuff on paper, but if you don't use PS to apply your diseases (or go diseasless), then this talent has no point in picking up. And DC/DnD are not use frequently enough to make Morbidity worth it.
Last edited by Skulmaster : 11/09/10 at 3:10 AM.
Reason: edited link
All that said, I suspect I'll be hanging on to crimson scourge at least for heroics, since I will probably not have an extra "single target" tank spec on hand at all times. However, I'm a casual/bad/scrub/etc., so people serious about optimizing their raid boss performance should probably be taking something better.
You really don't need Crimson Scourge for heroics. All you need to know which pulls involve AoE and which don't. A few runs of each heroic and you'll figure out which pulls to save Runes for and Crimson Scourge is not going to solve that problem because the biggest problem of DK AoE is timing, not how hard the individual BBs hit. At some you will start killing stuff before DnD has cooled down again. Just try to have enough Death Runes up from the previous pull (which should be easy due to Blood Rites) that you can go into a new pack and spam BB if required.
Originally Posted by Skulmaster
The Unholy Talents just don't seem worth it, Desecration looks like a nice debuff on paper, but if you don't use PS to apply your diseases (or go diseasless), then this talent has no point in picking up. And DC/DnD are not use frequently enough to make Morbidity worth it.
Desecration is great - but situational. The Unholy Rune cost is really not the issue. If you need something slowed you will just have to break up a FU pair. Not getting hit by mobs you are kiting is obviously much better than DSing. :P
I still plan to make 2 tank specs. First one with LB and the second with Desecration.
As Lichborne specs are made to have one more CD, and therefore are more "survival spec" than "threat specs" (sorry if that sounds weird, I'm French and figure out the best way to express things ^^), why won't you take 2 points in NotCS ? (Still 3 in RPM to be able to store RP as much as possible)
As DW seems to be the best choice in terms of survivability, as long as SoB remains as it is, I assume it'll help more than Icy Reach (which is the only option that makes sens for a 2H spec, I agree).
Also, I don't get Virulence if you intend to go diseaseless whenever possible ?
Even the situational utility of desecration is pretty weak. If you are going to break up an FU ability anyhow. Chains will be better on any single target kite. Beyond being ranged, COI is also omni-directional, you don't have to face the target to cast it. PS a kite target can be dangerous in any event anyhow, why kite it if you are going to risk being hit by it(them)?
Because Desecration costs you less Runes and is an AoE slow. CoI is not. It is your version of Piercing Howl which can be quite handy for mobs that you need to get away from to reset your debuff stacks (i.e. ToT Nagas) or which gain a temporary damage boost (i.e. enraging mobs in Stonecore.
And best of all is that Desecration does not break any CC either so you can pop it on a boss or a DG'd add while adds spawn to give people time to use CC or get away.
Or let me ask in a different way: What else would you spec if not Desecration and you were going for 2 tank specs? There is nothing better.
Originally Posted by Yörgle
Also, I don't get Virulence if you intend to go diseaseless whenever possible ?
Mind Freeze is still on the spell hit table unfortunately.
The primary issue is not that epidemic is dramatically less valuable in a "diseaseless" (outbreak only) spec, but that if one is going diseaseless, it is because one does not think diseases themselves are very valuable. While epidemic's benefit doesn't change hugely across specs/rotations, it does change across mindsets.
Diseaseless completely will never be better. PS provides a BB, which needs to be kept up anyways for the 10% physical damage debuff. Going diseaseless would only mean wasting a blood rune later in the fight. DS converts BR to DR, but doesn't mean that you have to use HS for those DR. You can still DS with those DR and benefit from the shield for high damage fights.
All in all, diseaseless vs disease is trading threat for survivability, which I think is a limited benefit because 2 additional DS per minute is not much of a survivability gain. I don't think this is particularly needed at the moment because we out gear everything anyways. In cata, this becomes moot because of outbreak and "fixed" rune regen (foretold in blizzcon). We will have enough runes to apply diseases as well as DS plenty.
As for snap aggro, I agree there is nothing wrong with diseaseless snap aggro in the beginning. I personally DS>DnD>BB>HS>BT>Diseases. With the RS fix coming up, I doubt snap aggro will be an issue at all. In aoe situations, DnD>BB>Diseases>Pest>BT>BB. With reglyphing so convenient now, you can reglyph DnD for trash if you still have a problem with aoe aggro.
Diseaseless can easily be optimal, even in your example where you presume you have to provide a scarlet fever/demo effect yourself, presuming one values an Unholy Rune (plus two talent points) higher than a Blood Rune + Blood Plague + 10 RP every 30 seconds. Given that Unholy Runes can be used for mitigation through an extra half Deathstrike, this doesn't seem unreasonable.
When you say: "DS converts BR to DR, but doesn't mean that you have to use HS for those DR," I am not positive what exactly you mean. Generally, DS is converting UF to Death Runes, and not Blood Runes. Anyone who would go diseaseless is likely not interested in ever using a Death Rune for HS.
This is the diseaseless build I figured to be the best for endgame 4.0.1, level 80, since I figured Mind Freeze isn't all that important for ICC and Ruby Sanctum, Icy Reach being very close to pointless for a diseaseless build, Abomination's Might being a fairly low DPS/TPS increase, and Crimson Scourge being an even lower TPS/DPS increase. Same goes for Butchery and BCB.
For LK heroic, Frost Fever is always applied to the Shambling Horrors through our DPS DKs, and I felt Unholy Command was useful for DGing Ghouls (or Shambling Horrors) more often, mainly because of the 10 second CD reduce, but also for the secondary effect that may proc from either HS killing something, or if the Necrotic Plague killing things count as your KBs (I've seen the damage from it on my screen, so I assume it's been counted as my damage somehow, maybe it counts as my KB in those situations as well?).
Thoughts?
Also, this spec may have already been suggested by someone (or even by a lot of people), if so, I'm sorry for my ignorance.
How viable is engineering for end game tanking now. I read the changes on MMO and saw that there is a healing potion buff on your belt, an armor CD on your gloves and then those new special gem sockets for the helms.
The healing potion belt gadget; does it share CD with other potions (i.e. indestructable)? How much bonus do you get from the heal?
Glove CD; exactly how does 1500 armor stack up at 85? I know it's not game changing or anything but I'm looking at rings/necks in ICC that have bonus armor and they've all been knocked down to 300-400 making me thinking 1500 armor is pretty good especially if you can still use a normal enchant on the gloves in addition to the eng one.
As far as helms go, I know the bonus sockets are basically just to make up for the lack of green stats on the helms themselves but being able to pick your stats on the helm is still quite good. My question for these becomes, is there any word on blizzard actually continuing to make helms for each tier or is it going to crap out after the first tier like WOTLK?
All of these are in addition to things like rocket boots and the parachute, both of which are mainly for fun but I could see them (the boots especially) being useful for raids.
Well, professions are a bit different as far as weight goes in Cata, especially for tanking. HP pools for tanks are going up by almost 4x what they are at lvl 80 (ie 50k hp vs 200k hp) while profession gains are going up by only 2x (ie JC gain at 80 = 63stm and JC gain at 85 = 123stm).
I have browsed through quite a few different links involving Cata professions and whatnot and came up with a tentative list (pretty sure numbers and things will change between then, now, and when Cata goes live). Below is a listing of the two max stm professions for tanking then the +/- from picking up Eng over JC (JC being the 'weaker' of the two):
JC: 101stm Dragon's Eyes
41stm per gem over the 60stm rare gem. 123 total stm gain from JC.
LW: 195stm bracer ench
As far as I have seen, there is no upgraded stm ench for Cata, just dodge/exp/hit/haste. This puts the stm gain from LW at +155. However, I could just be missing the ench or something. If someone has knowledge of a ench more than 40stm please post a link. Barring any new stm ench to bracers, its looking like 50 dodge/exp/hit/haste vs 195stm and that is a no brainer.
Blacksmithing
2 sockets. 120stm (assuming you're putting 2 60stm gems). I haven't heard of any additons in Cata, so this is tenative.
Eng: Utility/Mitigation gain.
This is a bit more complicated to be a direct value on. I will list the following +/- values for Eng compared to dropping JC since, as stated initially, its the lower valued profession when compared to LW.
Those above are just raw values that are going to stay throughout the xpac and whatnot. If you are looking at first teir only, JC also has the tank trinket (Monarch Crab 2.0) and Eng has the helms+cogwheels. Personally the appeal of all the utility Eng brings trumps the 'small' stm loss from JC. However, as I am sure is the case with most everyone, things can change and I'm ready to reroll another prof overnight in the event that takes place. Sometimes the only way to find out things sometimes is just test them out
Before this gets trolled or discredited, I wanted to throw out there:
I just did the above research through browsing mmodb and cata.wowhead. If anyone has any different results or sees an issue with any of that posted, please just let me know and I can fix it.
200K will be a BiS full-Heroic Mode Raiding Gear Tank gemming for near-full Stamina, so it'll be a while before we go that far. With just questing Blues you start off with 100K, by the time you've finished Heroic Dungeon Gearing you're at more or less 150K (Gem slots make a difference i believe).
There is currently (as of latest Beta Build) no Cataclysm (85) Bracer Stamina Enchant. There's Expertise, Dodge and Hit I believe. Probably Haste too. I'm hoping that Enchanting is just in-complete otherwise Leatherworking is facing a very, very large advantage (WotLK Bracer Enchant is +40 Stamina, the Cataclysm one needs to be +75 Stamina to even Leatherworking's Stamina to 120).
Mining also has 120 Stamina once you maximize it, you gain a new level of Toughness, and Blacksmithing as usual has it's two Sockets which also couple up to 120 extra Stamina if you use two +60 Stamina Gems in them.
Mind Amplification Dish no longer has Stamina in Beta (as of a while now I believe).
It doesn't make a very big difference but I believe Engineering Enchants stack with normal Enchants so you can have +23 Agility (Engineering) and +22 Agility (Cloak) or +225 Armor (Cloak) on the same piece of Gear, so it doesn't stack only for Boots, in Theory they should all stack (all the Engineering Enchants).
For Plate-Wearers I'm personally still leaning towards the Blacksmithing + Mining combo (assuming Leatherworking is equalized soon):
Blacksmithing means you'll be able to craft yourself a decent set of starter gear, although being Defense-Capped is no longer an issue, Heroics are tough and you'll want to get started on them as soon as possible. With just Questing Blues you'll end up having to run a few Normal-Modes. If you've managed to level Blacksmithing to a decent number you can get some Gear from there too which helps.
Mining means you'll be able to cut back on Leveling costs for Blacksmithing a lot. We all know how much people inflate item prices in the first few weeks so leveling say BS + JC will be very, very expensive just for 3 extra Stamina. If I'm correct you can also change the Bonus you gain from Mining between Strength, Stamina and Haste or something, or this was an idea, I'm not 100% sure if it was actually implemented in the end, if I'm wrong then feel free to correct me. Mining also helps cut back on Jewelcrafting costs a lot too however, so if you choose to go for that one you still gain the advantage of managing to save at least some Gold.
LW: 195stm bracer ench
Barring any new stm ench to bracers, its looking like 50 dodge/exp/hit/haste vs 195stm and that is a no brainer.
Not necessarily. Stamina may not end up as the best stat anymore. Also with reforging, +50 rating you don't have to reforge from gear so even if they don't add a +50 mastery enchant on bracers it might still work out fine (i.e. if you want to stay hit capped you can enchant hit on bracers and you free up more hit from gear to reforge into a "better" stat such as mastery). That said, I am pretty sure the WotLK stamina enchant was added a bit after release and I kept using the 12 defense bracer enchant until it was available so there is a good chance Blizz will add an updated version soon anyway.
That said, I am also eyeing Engineering for tanking. The bonuses from it seem to outweigh the loss of EH for some on-demand mini-CDs like the absorb or even non-quantifiable bonuses like Rocket Boots, grenades or even another interrupt with the Bolt Gun. I couldn't find a trainer for these items in Beta though which is a shame since I have no clue if things like the belt enchant can backfire (the flavor text implies as much). It would be ironic to pick up Eng for something like the belt enchant only to find out that Blizz gave it a chance to make you take 20k additional damage instead of absorbing it (or something equally stupid).
The second profession is most likely going to be JC or BS just for the flexibility of not being tied to always taking Stamina bonuses.
11/06/10, 4:43 AM
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