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Old 11/12/10, 12:54 PM   #241
Moophisto
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Turalyon
Just a minor note on your evaluations of race: Dwarven Stoneform also gives 10 percent armor for 8 seconds. Especially depending on how high armor values are in Cataclysm (which I admittedly don't know as I'm not on beta), the boost from Bladed Armor causes Dwarves to be a better passive choice than humans as EMFH is situational, where you can stoneform for a slight AP boost on any fight.

Granted, humans' expertise buff is more versatile than the dwarves (though not as beneficial assuming a mace, obviously) but its not as if expertise is exactly that important for Unholy anyway.

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Old 11/15/10, 4:18 PM   #242
cronious
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Facerollinc View Post
I noticed this as well. I took off all my armor and just beat on the dummy with my pet so I could stay in combat. W/ out the macro my ghould was doing ~520 dps. With the macro he was doing ~570 dps. The macro looks something like this

#showtooltip
/cast Scourge Strike
/cast !Rune Strike
/cast Blood Fury
/use 10
/cast Claw

Of course if you're not an Orc dont put Blood fury in there. You can also macro this to other attacks. /use 10 is engineering glove enchant so you can take that out if you arent an engineer or would rather use it on CD yourself.

What this does is it keeps the ghoul from Energy capping. By casting claw everytime he has 40+ energy. I feel SS is the best attack to macro it on as it is the attack you'll be using most often with the surplus of Death Runes we have with the new rune system/Festering Strike.

Edit: This was also on the PTR
So does this mean that we are supposed to start using Rune Strike even though it's primarily used for tanking? Wouldnt that take away from our DC output?

Another question, if I am hitcapped, do i go mostly for socket bonuses and reforge the excess hit off gear?

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Old 11/15/10, 5:48 PM   #243
Ehanoro
Glass Joe
 
Ehanoro's Avatar
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Nathrezim
Just as with the discovery as Leather working becoming our BiS Prof, I am wondering if Alchemy may be our second BiS considering that we do not use the STR Flask, but that was used in the OP, and even the inferior flask tied for 3rd BiS, and 1 STR behind being 2nd BiS, but Mixology would increase the stat gain to 338 Haste/Exp from our Elixirs, assuming Mixology grants them both 50% increase in stat gain.

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Old 11/15/10, 6:43 PM   #244
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Yes, as it currently stands, it's pretty much worth getting every single socket bonus possible, stam and the like aside, and reforging around any extra hit. Such isn't the case at 85, although that's another matter.

We actually do use the strength flask, based on 85 weights. The initial debate over using a haste+expertise elixir came about long before said weights were known, and thus was based off of level 80 ones, which are quite different.

Besides, although the expertise elixir was guardian earlier in beta, it's now battle, as is only logical, thus there's no doubt about the flask reigning supreme.

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Old 11/18/10, 8:14 PM   #245
Sh4d0wfury
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ursin
Necrotic Strike

About necrotic strike, there are 2 bosses in cataclysm it is worth using. The first is Anshal, the nature guy from Conclave of Wind, right before he casts soothing breeze. The second one is Maloriak, who may not heal and consume the debuff, but the debuff doubles as a cast speed reduction for both Arcane Storm and Unleash Abberations.

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Old 11/19/10, 6:08 AM   #246
Tikiman49
Von Kaiser
 
Tikiman49's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Wyrmrest Accord
Originally Posted by Sh4d0wfury View Post
About necrotic strike, there are 2 bosses in cataclysm it is worth using. The first is Anshal, the nature guy from Conclave of Wind, right before he casts soothing breeze. The second one is Maloriak, who may not heal and consume the debuff, but the debuff doubles as a cast speed reduction for both Arcane Storm and Unleash Abberations.
I'll have to check the values of SS versus NS on beta tomorrow, but for Soothing Breeze, which heals something like 20k HP/sec, NS is completely useless. If the damage of a Scourge Strike would outdo the damage+absorb of a NS, then it's better to do the Scourge Strike. Getting hit for a 20k SS or a 10k+10k NS is going to give the same net effect once the heal starts ticking. I'll look at numbers on a dummy in a bit.

In PvE, NS is more useful for the debuff than the heal absorb.

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Old 11/19/10, 12:09 PM   #247
Kappu1
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Proudmoore
Pretty new to the forum here read almost this entire post and I was wondering where some good macro guides are for especially for our pets looking for something that will attack on my focus, use claw and then if I have no target then won't go blazing off. Any suggestions? I tried looking at some Hunter macros and didn't seem to work out for me.

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Old 11/19/10, 12:24 PM   #248
probiscus
Bald Bull
 
Human Death Knight
 
<QQ>
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Kappu1 View Post
Pretty new to the forum here read almost this entire post and I was wondering where some good macro guides are for especially for our pets looking for something that will attack on my focus, use claw and then if I have no target then won't go blazing off. Any suggestions? I tried looking at some Hunter macros and didn't seem to work out for me.
Arena junkies has an awesome thread full of dk macros, Amigo is the author.

Amigo's Death Knight Pro-tips - Arena Junkies Forums

Looks like its being updated.

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Old 11/19/10, 12:41 PM   #249
JMBattista
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Hydraxis
Originally Posted by Tikiman49 View Post
I'll have to check the values of SS versus NS on beta tomorrow, but for Soothing Breeze, which heals something like 20k HP/sec, NS is completely useless. If the damage of a Scourge Strike would outdo the damage+absorb of a NS, then it's better to do the Scourge Strike. Getting hit for a 20k SS or a 10k+10k NS is going to give the same net effect once the heal starts ticking. I'll look at numbers on a dummy in a bit.

In PvE, NS is more useful for the debuff than the heal absorb.
I don't have a full list of the talents/ect that effect Scourge Strike to get a fully accurate picture at the moment but one thing I can cleanly say has to do with how they scale.

SS does something in the neighborhood of 200% weapon damage (between physical and shadow portions) modified by attack power, plus some flat damage.

Necrotic Strike does 100% weapon damage + 75% of AP as the absorb shield.

75% of AP is a pretty amazing coefficient when you look at the other abilities out there. IIRC most of them are in the 20-40% of AP range, so if your gear 'luck' is poor early on and you have a bad weapon but otherwise good gear it will shift things in favor of NS (more emphasis on AP less on Weapon damage).

This kinda makes me wish we had one of those coefficient tables in the OP where we cache data about how each attack scales with AP / weapon damage since that would make solving this super easy.

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Old 11/20/10, 1:16 AM   #250
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
It's more complicated than that, since SS scales with Crit as well and I don't think that the absorb can crit (though I could be wrong).

Originally Posted by Silmeria View Post
See this is how engineers argue! Why the fuck we gotta have 17 page threads on how much Diablo 3 sucks I blame liberal arts majors

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Old 11/20/10, 5:36 AM   #251
Louky
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Arthas (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
It's more complicated than that, since SS scales with Crit as well and I don't think that the absorb can crit (though I could be wrong).
Don't forget that the absorb shield will also ignore armor completely. As such the 75% AP factor will most likely pose a uge scaling problem, as currently 9k shields are easily possible raidbuffed. And that's only t11.

Oh, and the absorb part of the strike cannot crit, it's always a flat value. At least it never did when I tested it on a target dummy.

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Old 11/22/10, 11:19 PM   #252
Consider
King Hippo
 
Consider's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Initial edit to the first post complete. Due to the last minute realization of DW's viability, I wasn't able to accomplish nearly as much as I would have liked. As such, I still have a lot of finer details to go through - more stat weights, finishing trinket section, finally doing macro/mod section, reworking reforging section, and general formatting edits - and I should be able to get most of it out of the way tomorrow by the end of the weekend, although the holidays make it a bit difficult.

As I've said elsewhere, but since I've had questions on the subject: yes, I do plan to do a FAQ. For various reasons, however, it's likely to become a separate post. It will be finished by the release of Cataclysm.

Anyways, as always, if there's any issues, let me know.

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Old 11/23/10, 4:36 PM   #253
Steelo
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Azuremyst
Originally Posted by Nauthul View Post
I tried the blood strike as well, and ultimately dropped it. It's hard to get past that "must use runes now!" feeling, but once you get the idea that your runes are fine as long as you have at least one on CD and shift your focus to stacking SI and uptime on DT you'll notice the difference. To plug Docs rune addon again, Docs Debug Runes makes this idea of runes as 3 energy bars and as long as you don't cap the bar you're good way easier to see than the 6 runes in a row idea.
Correct me if I am wrong but wouldnt It be a dps gain for a lvl 80 starter to go IT/PS, BS BT(the BT bug would give you an extra Death Rune for another SS with the rune recharging from BS) then SS SS FS DC etc?

Last edited by Steelo : 11/24/10 at 9:19 AM.

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Old 11/24/10, 12:36 AM   #254
Masaru
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Mannoroth
Regarding CSD:

The current design has been reconsidered, so we're planning to revert gems that now require more blue than red gems back to their original requirements. Such a change can't be accomplished via a hotfix though, so we'll have to wait to revert these in a future patch.
DPS Meta Gem Change...Change it Back - Forums - World of Warcraft

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Old 11/24/10, 2:43 AM   #255
Sahlia
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by Masaru View Post
It should work out to be BIS. We'll anyways take our T11 chest, so we will gem in epic gear anyways one item with 1 blue gem. Perhaps there will be a second item with a red/blue 20str bonus, then it's no questtion at all. More likely is another item with a blue socket and 10 STR bonus (it's at least in every raid BIS set the case). So it would come down down to the choice:

10 STR vs 20 Hit+3%increased critical strike damage. And thats a clear win for the CSD.

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