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Old 01/20/11, 8:37 PM   #286
Jeebs
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Hyjal
It is actually worse than live. Now when you DS a second shield, not only doesn't it stack, it doesn't refresh the timer. So even if you do minimum shields, and refresh 9 seconds into a shield, on the 10th tick, the shield drops, losing the new shield.

When you refresh when taking damage its the same, except each tick of absorb says the shield is refreshed and gives the value remaining, so possibly they're still tweaking it. I can't see them making this the official version or its a once every 10 second move at best.

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Old 01/20/11, 9:31 PM   #287
Insolence
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Draenor (EU)
Things to test:
- Find mob that hits large enough to take a hit that will give equal or greater to 45k or 33% of current hp.
- Find a mob or player that hits low physical damage but can live longer than 10 seconds to test infinite stacking.
For the first one:

Would Patchwerk do? Maybe remove a couple of pieces of Gear like say Stamina Trinkets, but he's pure Physical and a Heavy-Hitter? Or maybe Algalon? Another Heavy-Hitter. Lich King hurts for a lot as well, and can turn the 30% Buff off.

For when Stacking Shields comes back.

Edit: Never mind, forgot about the huge gear inflation from WotLK to Cataclysm.

Last edited by Insolence : 01/20/11 at 9:37 PM.

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Old 01/21/11, 2:29 PM   #288
Murdoque
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Things to test:
- Find mob that hits large enough to take a hit that will give equal or greater to 45k or 33% of current hp.
- Find a mob or player that hits low physical damage but can live longer than 10 seconds to test infinite stacking.
For the first I'd guess the caster trash mobs in AK, their spell hits for a percentage of total health (70 iirc). You will need a healer and take 2 hits within the shield period to reach a minimum of 33% total health shield. The damage is magical so the shield itself should not interfere with the data. Once the shield is applied just refresh it as normal while tanking the physical adds. Subtract min DS value for each hit you did to maintain the shield to breaking point (so the duration doesnt drop). If you're not dpsing the adds this method should be fine. Only problem I foresee is the stacking debuff from one of the adds and unaccounted-for magic damage interfering, though it should be accurate enough to give a qualitative result.

If that fails just use the invincible mobs in Blasted Lands. They hit regular enough that at least 1 damage goes to shield every hit. You have to take a physical dps along with you though to test the shield size.

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Old 01/21/11, 5:30 PM   #289
Jeebs
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Murdoque View Post
For the first I'd guess the caster trash mobs in AK, their spell hits for a percentage of total health (70 iirc). You will need a healer and take 2 hits within the shield period to reach a minimum of 33% total health shield. The damage is magical so the shield itself should not interfere with the data. Once the shield is applied just refresh it as normal while tanking the physical adds. Subtract min DS value for each hit you did to maintain the shield to breaking point (so the duration doesnt drop). If you're not dpsing the adds this method should be fine. Only problem I foresee is the stacking debuff from one of the adds and unaccounted-for magic damage interfering, though it should be accurate enough to give a qualitative result.

If that fails just use the invincible mobs in Blasted Lands. They hit regular enough that at least 1 damage goes to shield every hit. You have to take a physical dps along with you though to test the shield size.
The shield is still broke today, but slightly different. It still doesn't stack and doesn't refresh the timer. It resets the shield, but since the timer remains from the first shield.

I know in the previous build it did stack, so they must be tweaking it. I posted on the PTR forums, but who knows how many pages its dropped now. Hopefully its acknowledged soon in patch notes or a hotfix to the servers. I'll probably jump on a few times over the weekend and /bug it.

Once the stacking is fixed, I don't even need a big hitting mob to get a huge shield on the initial swing. Smaller shields stacking over 33% will be just as good as one large hit putting us at or over 33%. And it requires fewer people and less risk. But to be safe, I'll try to jump in a raid if one happens after its fixed.

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Old 01/22/11, 11:57 PM   #290
Suphix
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
So if I understand this correctly, you were Deathstriking while at full health? Perhaps your damage/healing meter was not separating "overheals" while the blood shield simply wont stack if there is no health deficit and won't take the overheals into consideration?

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Old 01/23/11, 3:02 AM   #291
Jeebs
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Hyjal
I tried at full health and while taking damage.

I didn't get on today, had too much to do before raid started. I'll hop on PTR Sunday to see if they possibly hotfixed it, but right now shields are just broke.

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Old 01/25/11, 2:41 AM   #292
Egonor
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Korgath
I was wondering how everyone else's DPS is doing as a blood tank. I cannot tell if keeping my diseases up makes a difference but I believe it does. I only see between 4-6k though on bosses with expertise cap and near hit yellow cap. I only ask cause I see paladins around 8-9k and warrior from 10-12k. While DK's are useful for their number of cooldowns and high avoidance it seems like the difference in some Cata fights can literally be that 4-6k DPS extra.

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Old 01/25/11, 3:18 AM   #293
Yörgle
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Elune (EU)
Originally Posted by Egonor View Post
I was wondering how everyone else's DPS is doing as a blood tank. I cannot tell if keeping my diseases up makes a difference but I believe it does. I only see between 4-6k though on bosses with expertise cap and near hit yellow cap. I only ask cause I see paladins around 8-9k and warrior from 10-12k. While DK's are useful for their number of cooldowns and high avoidance it seems like the difference in some Cata fights can literally be that 4-6k DPS extra.
We definitly are behind the other tanks regarding the DPS. I assume the increased values on HS and DS in 4.0.6 will help filling the gap.

And yes, having diseases up make a noticeable (but not huge ^^) difference. This also will be kind of fixed in 4.0.6 as you will need Blood Plague applied to cause Scarlet Fever. So basically, both of your diseases will be up 100% of the time, as it doesn't make much sens to only apply BP even if there is a DK DPSing the boss / add you tank. (Even if you can, to save half a DS while waiting a RE proc on a frost rune or by using Blood tap)

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Old 01/25/11, 4:27 AM   #294
Lichloathe
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Darkspear
Originally Posted by Yörgle View Post
So basically, both of your diseases will be up 100% of the time, as it doesn't make much sens to only apply BP even if there is a DK DPSing the boss / add you tank.
Not really true. If another DK is bringing FF, there is no reason whatsoever for you to apply it yourself. Throwing away a DS to get a negligible and meaningless threat/dps bonus is a poor choice no matter how you look at it. It's probably not even going to be optimal to maintain 100% uptime on both Diseases anyway, given the massive damage burst from dropping the DS.

Author of BloodSim

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Old 01/25/11, 5:41 AM   #295
Deepdigger
Glass Joe
 
Guzman
Orc Death Knight
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
Originally Posted by Egonor View Post
I was wondering how everyone else's DPS is doing as a blood tank. I cannot tell if keeping my diseases up makes a difference but I believe it does. I only see between 4-6k though on bosses with expertise cap and near hit yellow cap. I only ask cause I see paladins around 8-9k and warrior from 10-12k. While DK's are useful for their number of cooldowns and high avoidance it seems like the difference in some Cata fights can literally be that 4-6k DPS extra.
i would say i average around 5,5k dps on most fights. so your values seem reasonable.
I guess its mostly because i use GCD for debuffing, AMS, BS, VP, ....so if i know i outgear the fight and i can skip those, my values can be around 8k on some fights.

But threat seems to be no issue at all as i can easily pull aggro from a pala maintank with 1 or 2 runestrikes without any vengeance.

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Old 01/25/11, 6:27 AM   #296
Pintofbrew
Hand Wind Only
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Originally Posted by Deepdigger View Post
I guess its mostly because i use GCD for debuffing, AMS, BS, VP, ....so if i know i outgear the fight and i can skip those, my values can be around 8k on some fights.
Your paladin is doing something wrong. I've tried to pull off a paladin without vengeance and it was marginally possible if I started with a full RP bar and dumped it all with DRW open. Rune strike may have a high enough threat modifier that our threat isn't significantly sub-standard but our DPS absolutely is. It is not related to you using some GCDs up, it's simply a case of abilities not hitting hard enough.

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Old 01/25/11, 8:36 AM   #297
Nari
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Гром (EU)
I was interested how people keep blade barrier up with such low hit/exp? I try to be hit capped, near 20exp and still sometimes struggle to refresh it in time.

Last edited by Narcosleepy : 01/25/11 at 1:11 PM.

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Old 01/25/11, 8:47 AM   #298
Yörgle
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Elune (EU)
Originally Posted by Lichloathe View Post
Not really true. If another DK is bringing FF, there is no reason whatsoever for you to apply it yourself. Throwing away a DS to get a negligible and meaningless threat/dps bonus is a poor choice no matter how you look at it. It's probably not even going to be optimal to maintain 100% uptime on both Diseases anyway, given the massive damage burst from dropping the DS.
What I was saying had nothing to do with "worrying about diseases to gain some DPS", it was about the fact that as BP will be mandatory (to apply the -10% phys. dmg.), we'll see a slight increase of DPS.

About providing FF, I assume that you may be right as it's not worth sacrifying a frost rune free in case of a RE proc on an UH rune (or just using blood tap).

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Old 01/25/11, 11:26 AM   #299
kurokaze
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Warrior
 
Daggerspine
Originally Posted by Nari View Post
I was interested how people keep blade barrier up with such low hit/exp? I try to be hit capped, near 20exp and still sometimes struggle to refresh it in time.
Blood Boil always expends its rune, even if it misses all targets. I keep a close watch on the Blade Barrier buff and try to throw out a Blood Boil whenever it has <2 seconds left, or if my blood runes are about to cap and my FU runes aren't (since capping B makes Blade Barrier refreshing more troublesome). If you have capped your blood runes and let blade barrier fall, you can often Rune Tap + Blood Boil to refresh it instantly, though I mostly keep Rune Tap on cooldown.

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Old 01/26/11, 4:03 AM   #300
Matthew
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
As described on the first page under Priority I try to always have one Blood Rune on cooldown so Blade Barrier keeps rolling. I look at the time it takes to have my second Blood Rune refresh:
- more than one GCD: try to HS (if no DS is possible)
- less than one GCD: Blood Boil
- less than one GCD and GCD on Cooldown: Rune Tap

This also has the added benefit that Rune Strike will always refresh a F/U rune, increasing the number of DS/minute.

EDIT:
It still happens quite often that I'm getting thrown out of this "rotation" by mistake or choice. In that case I use Blood Tap to activate one of the blood runes to be able to refresh F/U runes with RE again.

Last edited by Matthew : 01/26/11 at 6:22 AM.

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