Blood | DK endgame tanking [4.x] - Page 52

Ohdamn · 07/21/11, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by Trajectory

Well, given the off-tier pieces seem to have better secondary stat weights (IE not having Hit/Expertise on them) and having Mastery/Dodge/Parry instead, is the 4pc honestly worth it (as I am operating under the assumption that you are blowing DRW 12 seconds prior to a big damage spike so that you get the 4pc uptime and the best use for it)? It seems that going with the 2pc (Legs + Gloves) and then going off-tier for everything else, would be much more pragmatic insofar as getting more constant stats versus some avoidance chance for a certain timeframe.

Thoughts?

Also, anyone have an idea as to what the ICD is on the DRW 4pc? I presume it is available for each DRW CD making this question quite pointless.

I'm not really sure yet. For now I'll just wear the 2p, which is pretty awesome for DKs.
I'll pass Head and Shoulders to the other Classes/Specs first but when I get my 4p I'll probably wear it (at least for some Bosses)
At first i thought you lose way to much Mastery with the 4p items. Especially after they changed the Ragnaros shoulders.
But if you take a look at it it's not really that big of a deal.

Josh Yaxley · 07/21/11, 8:09 AM

What I've been wondering for a while, and haven't been able to find an answer to by just searching the web, is this:

The tier 12 set 2 bonus doesn't say it applies the 20% melee attack speed reduction debuff and the 10% damage reduction debuff, so I'm assuming I have to apply my diseases anyway to keep these up, meaning the second half of the set 2 becomes quite useless. Is the only main advantage supposed to be the Burning Blood DoT? Because if so this seems to be a very weak bonus, and I don't really want to swap out my t11 set 4 bonus just for a small DoT.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Ohdamn · 07/21/11, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by Josh Yaxley

What I've been wondering for a while, and haven't been able to find an answer to by just searching the web, is this:

The tier 12 set 2 bonus doesn't say it applies the 20% melee attack speed reduction debuff and the 10% damage reduction debuff, so I'm assuming I have to apply my diseases anyway to keep these up, meaning the second half of the set 2 becomes quite useless. Is the only main advantage supposed to be the Burning Blood DoT? Because if so this seems to be a very weak bonus, and I don't really want to swap out my t11 set 4 bonus just for a small DoT.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Yes it doesn't apply the two tank debuffs and it doesn't procc Crimson Scourge.
But if you have a 2nd tank that can apply Demo shout you basically gain one free Death Strike without losing the extra DMG through diseases.

Interesting to know would be if the 2p debuff stacks with your diseases. If you apply your diseases while the 2p debuff is up does it count as 4 diseases? Probably not..that would be a sweet dmg buff.

Panthros · 07/21/11, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by Fránk the Tank

Hit only affects misses, while expertise affects both dodge and parry up to 26. So it is essentially double double dipping for lack of a better term. Not only that, runes are refunded for misses, while dodged/parried attacks eat runes.

Sorry, but I just read from a post in the unholy thread that dodged attacks don't consume any runes:

Unholy DPS | Back in Black [4.2.0]

So wich one of you is correct?

Josh Yaxley · 07/21/11, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ohdamn

Yes it doesn't apply the two tank debuffs and it doesn't procc Crimson Scourge.
But if you have a 2nd tank that can apply Demo shout you basically gain one free Death Strike without losing the extra DMG through diseases.

Interesting to know would be if the 2p debuff stacks with your diseases. If you apply your diseases while the 2p debuff is up does it count as 4 diseases? Probably not..that would be a sweet dmg buff.

Yeah it's all well and good if the other tank can apply the debuffs onto my target, but how many fights are we actually both on the same target? :P

Beth'tilac - only p2
Shannox - suppose sub 30%
Rhyolith - nope
Baleroc - nope
Alysrazor - p4 only
Majordomo - nope
Ragnaros - don't know haven't looked yet :P

So I still have to apply my diseases, making the t12 2 set effectively just 400 dps.

Ohdamn · 07/21/11, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Josh Yaxley

Yeah it's all well and good if the other tank can apply the debuffs onto my target, but how many fights are we actually both on the same target? :P

Beth'tilac - only p2
Shannox - suppose sub 30%
Rhyolith - nope
Baleroc - nope
Alysrazor - p4 only
Majordomo - nope
Ragnaros - don't know haven't looked yet :P

So I still have to apply my diseases, making the t12 2 set effectively just 400 dps.

If you're not on the same target on Baleroc you're doing something wrong ;D
Majordomo too and Ragnaros too.
For these Bosses it's a pretty good effect for a 2(!)p bonus.

And even if you still have to apply the debuff you gain some dps through 2p and it's not like there are better nonset Hands and Legs.

edit: okay Majordomo obviously not..nvm

CodeNameSly · 07/21/11, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ohdamn

edit: okay Majordomo obviously not..nvm

Warrior non-tanks can apply the debuffs with little cost to DPS, though.

kow · 07/21/11, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ohdamn

If you're not on the same target on Baleroc you're doing something wrong ;D

Not if he's 1-tanking it.

Dreager_ex · 07/21/11, 6:01 PM

Originally Posted by CodeNameSly

Warrior non-tanks can apply the debuffs with little cost to DPS, though.

Its actually a pretty huge nerf to a DPS warrior to Thunder Clap and Demo shout every 30 seconds. The rage cost of both on top of the GCDs required to do it, and that's not even taking into consideration the fact that a fury warrior has to stance dance to Thunder Clap.

Now you COULD have the warrior just do Demo shout, by itself that isn't such a big deal, and any DPS DK will be keeping up Frost Fever full time.

But honestly, on a fight like Heroic Baleroc where every ounce of DPS matters, the tank should just keep up the debuffs up themselves and then mourn the value of their 2-set. Just my opinion.

Obliterus · 07/21/11, 11:02 PM

Been doing a lot of reading recently on gearing my DK and after looking at posters I wanted to get some opinions about mastery vs dodge/parry.

From what I can see there is the hit/expertise priority which I have seen some DKs sport such as Liar and I too followed this method for a long time due to a massive lack of threat with over eager DPS. I am pleased to say that this is no longer a great issue in T12 and I have decided to reforge away these stats and go towards a full mastery build. If you look on my profile you will see I have mastery on everything and have managed to gain 170% blood shields (3445 mastery (27.22(8.00+19.22)), now I know this figure will go down when I slowly upgrade items which no longer possess mastery as a primary stat yet I want to know how far would you go.

I don't believe the answer is as simple as stack as much as you can and have done with it as, you see players such as Illundai who have took the plight of the DK to another level and gone old school with pure avoidance which I can imagine actually has more success than pure mastery due to the unforgiving situation Blizzard has thrown DKs into. I refuse to believe this is what Blizzard created our class for, we aren't just another Paladin or Warrior we were suppose to be unique and I felt for a long time that they had been successful in making that happen yet recently I am losing confidence. I am unsure whether it would be more beneficial to even out our priority and go for a more balanced avoidance build with losing mastery in favour of dodge/parry.

Currently I am sitting on 13.17% dodge and 13.90% parry and in fairness I don't to too bad on most fight, Shannox aside with his insane hits and timers. Personally I think this issue is made worse with the current condition of DKs and the relative weakness we are to a raiding environment (hardly any Blood DKs exist end game), I don't want to lose my raid position yet feel the need to step aside on fights where I know I am a liability.

Azden · 07/22/11, 9:08 AM

Given the recent hotfix to the Improved Death Strike talent, would it be viable to glyph DS over, say, RS for threat gen now? Or would the additional 10% crit to RS still be a better option?

rh8452 · 07/22/11, 11:40 AM

I would just glyph DS and RS over HS and use coil as the third (if lichborne spec). Unless doing Rhyolith fragments or both large Ragnaros adds (normal), you won't often be tanking multiple targets if ever so glyphed HS is essentially useless for anything other than trash.

Asphyxialol · 07/22/11, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by rh8452

I would just glyph DS and RS over HS and use coil as the third (if lichborne spec). Unless doing Rhyolith fragments or both large Ragnaros adds (normal), you won't often be tanking multiple targets if ever so glyphed HS is essentially useless for anything other than trash.

HS is still superior to DS for Alyzrazor adds, even after the DS buff, and with the DS glyph (per my logs / gear). It just makes it much less painful to stick to a DS rotation while they are hungry to help out with their Tantrum burst.

If you are a LB spec you're probably playing it close to >100 RP and DS is superior to the HS glyph, however if you were non-LB, or the kind of person who sits on low runic power most of the fight HS will see better gains than the DS glyph will typically.

Really depends on your play style for HS/DS glyphs, but RS remains static in every glyph setup.

Acalia · 07/22/11, 2:04 PM

I noted DS signifcantly improved my DPS on the hatchlings last night, I dropped RS glyph, and now have DS and HS glyphed. But again like Onslaught said, it really depends on play style, and I'd even go on to say healing setup for that fight. I believe that fight could easily be 1 healed.

Tyvi · 07/23/11, 7:11 AM

I haven't heard anyone complain about this yet so just to make sure it's not just me:
Does your DnD also do nothing when you use it while your AMS is up? I think that bug was introduced back in 4.1 but after doing countless Ryo attempts it really got annoying.
Does it just happen to me or do people just not care?