Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame - Page 13

Sadirin · 01/23/11, 7:43 AM

At least right now the death coil used to heal your ghul can trigger dark transformation. With the minor glyph this DC only costs 14 rune energy, instead of 34.

Would you think that it is a DPS decrease or increase if you would not use the DC on an enemy but on your ghul to trigger DT much faster? Not using SD procs the difference is 100 rune energy (5x 34 - 5x 14) between the two methods and that means that you have your ghul much faster transformed (and with that a much higher uptime of sweeping claws).

Jonneh · 01/23/11, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Diello

Mors is right. I apologize for the hasty recommendation. The addon gave me a very close to optimal setup, but based on what was just explained above I suppose that it was just luck (and the fact that my current gear has very clear reforging needs).

I'll go back to using WoW Reforge Calculator and suggest others do as well.

I couldn't easily get this site to obey the rules by which we reforge. Even with our stat weights put in, it wanted me to reforge away haste for hit on 3 items.

Kahorie DK Simulator does quite a good job, though there are some minor issues. It at least intelligently gets you to balance hit rating and expertise/crit based around the value we place on each.

Grimrokh · 01/23/11, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Sadirin

At least right now the death coil used to heal your ghul can trigger dark transformation. With the minor glyph this DC only costs 14 rune energy, instead of 34.

Would you think that it is a DPS decrease or increase if you would not use the DC on an enemy but on your ghul to trigger DT much faster? Not using SD procs the difference is 100 rune energy (5x 34 - 5x 14) between the two methods and that means that you have your ghul much faster transformed (and with that a much higher uptime of sweeping claws).

Just did a quick Napkin-Calculation on this. The 5 lost GCD´s on top of the lost DMG of 5 DC´s doesnt justify the dmg gain through quicker DT or longer uptime.

As there was also a Bluepost some time back about the Glyph getting altered due to PvP reasons, there should be even less benefit in the future.

Sadirin · 01/23/11, 5:41 PM

At least right now on the PTR the minor glyph simply cannot be used anymore to heal yourself with lichborne, but only can be used healing undead minions. But thanks anyway for the math.

Ketrew · 01/24/11, 12:17 AM

You need to set a hit cap for it to work. To do this look along the bottom where you will see the option to "Reforge <stat> Close to..." Set "Reforge HIT EXACTLY TO 961". Then press go and then press optimize.

Here is a screen shot of it set up and working:

*edited to remove second stat (expertise) capping as it caused errors

Sonrisa · 01/24/11, 1:10 AM

The setup in that screenshot is not optimal:
- You are reforging haste away in some pieces and you are not reforging into haste on the ones you can.
- There's a pieces that isn't reforging mastery away.
- 780 expertise rating would net you 25 expertise since you are 1 expertise rating away from cap and that would make you waste almost 29 rating points for nothing.

Here's a manually done setup that would net higher DPS:

The way I'm using the site as of late is to just load my profile up and do it manually since I never actually managed to get it to reforge to best possible setup. It does however set your gear and ratings in a way that's very easy to tweak.

• MagdalenaDK · 01/24/11, 1:17 AM

The latest patch ensures that we'll talent into 3/3 Magic Suppression so as to ensure adequate Runic Power conversion ratio for AMS. This removes any free floater talent choice that we now have.

I'm mentioning this because I'd like to know what the community thinks about removing 1 point from Improved Blood Tap to put into Runic Power Mastery. This allows for up to three Death Coils worth of RP to be stored, and appears to be quite handy for situations with heavy AMS soaking, given that back to back Death Coiling is no longer taboo. It also allows for rapid stacking of Shadow Infusion if you happen to be at or near the RP cap.

Does this seem to be a DPS gain over 2/2 Improved Blood Tap?
It's worth remembering that one of the primary uses for Blood Tap today is to offset empty GCDs, many of which will now be covered by extended Runic Corruption procs- hence Improved Blood Tap has lost a slight amount of value, especially when compared to RPM.

Ketrew · 01/24/11, 1:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sonrisa

The setup in that screenshot is not optimal:
- You are reforging haste away in some pieces and you are not reforging into haste on the ones you can.
- There's a pieces that isn't reforging mastery away.
- 780 expertise rating would net you 25 expertise since you are 1 expertise rating away from cap and that would make you waste almost 29 rating points for nothing.

The way I'm using the site as of late is to just load my profile up and do it manually since I never actually managed to get it to reforge to best possible setup. It does however set your gear and ratings in a way that's very easy to tweak.

Yeah adding the second stat cap seems to break it and I didn't notice before I posted. It works though if you just use hit and not expertise. I've updated my original post without the expertise cap.

phete · 01/24/11, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ketrew

Yeah adding the second stat cap seems to break it and I didn't notice before I posted. It works though if you just use hit and not expertise. I've updated my original post without the expertise cap.

The site only uses 12 of your items when going for 2 stat-caps, therefore you should try to lock items you know wont be reforged (e.g. trinkets with +str on them) and maybe manually reforging the worst items (removing mastery if you're unholy or haste if you're frost) so the sim only has 12 non-reforged/non-locked items left to work with.

The dev says that without the 12-item cap the calculation would take several minutes.

Sonrisa · 01/24/11, 5:24 AM

I'm guessing it's a mistake on your end but you have 1624 hit rating on the screenshot. The only way I've found to make it work close to what I manually do, is to crank the haste weight way high, aim for hit cap and then just give some reasonable numbers for the rest of stats so it optimizes accordingly. It still doesn't reforge the hit trinket in order to get exact hit cap, which I go over by 10 rating to get more haste, and it reforges crit instead of mastery on your shoulders (since it can get more haste that way). Although it's close it's still not optimal, so personally I'm gonna keep doing it manually.

Ketrew · 01/24/11, 9:11 AM

I made a mistake creating that screen shot by failing to set the hit cap. This is done by pressing the "Go" button before pressing the "Optimize" button. No funky or extreme stat weights are required to get an accurate reforge optimization if done correctly. The screen shot is again updated and I hope this time I've done it right.

Sorry for any confusion!

fancydethfst · 01/24/11, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Baadshah

The latest patch ensures that we'll talent into 3/3 Magic Suppression so as to ensure adequate Runic Power conversion ratio for AMS. This removes any free floater talent choice that we now have.

I'm mentioning this because I'd like to know what the community thinks about removing 1 point from Improved Blood Tap to put into Runic Power Mastery. This allows for up to three Death Coils worth of RP to be stored, and appears to be quite handy for situations with heavy AMS soaking, given that back to back Death Coiling is no longer taboo. It also allows for rapid stacking of Shadow Infusion if you happen to be at or near the RP cap.

Does this seem to be a DPS gain over 2/2 Improved Blood Tap?
It's worth remembering that one of the primary uses for Blood Tap today is to offset empty GCDs, many of which will now be covered by extended Runic Corruption procs- hence Improved Blood Tap has lost a slight amount of value, especially when compared to RPM.

I know for myself it will not be different. I take 3/3 Magic Suppression now because I think people devalue the AMZ and saving your raid healers mana. People will be crazy to not get AMZ now for 1 point since they are most likely going to get 3/3 Magic Suppression. Just use your Blood Tap at the best available times and you cant tell much change. I found myself hitting Blood Tap carefree when I was 2/2 in it anyhow.

Thyrial · 01/24/11, 11:40 AM

My advice when it comes to the reforge calculator is just use it to find the best way to get close to the hit cap (since it shows you different options as to how to get there you can just pick the best) and then reforge the rest manually since after hit cap it's just dropping the weakest stat for the best stat. If you set the Haste value high enough you'll get a decent hit cap setup.

Murdoque · 01/24/11, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Grimrokh

Just did a quick Napkin-Calculation on this. The 5 lost GCD´s on top of the lost DMG of 5 DC´s doesnt justify the dmg gain through quicker DT or longer uptime.

As there was also a Bluepost some time back about the Glyph getting altered due to PvP reasons, there should be even less benefit in the future.

Note it's not the damage of 5 DC that you are losing. You are losing 5x 14 RP= 70 RP, which is the damage of only 2 DC, though with the GCDs used it might still be a dps loss.

thelordymir · 01/25/11, 1:58 PM

Checking MMO Champion today I saw that Volatile Alchemist stone's are no longer unique. Maybe this is just wrong data, but would that mean we could possibly wear 2 at once?

That would be 351 str on each and could reforge mastery to haste