Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame - Page 16

Nerror · 02/07/11, 3:45 AM

Ghoul hit rating rounds down: If you have 7.99% hit rating, the ghoul will have 7% hit.

This has been fixed. I did a "quick" test using Recount, letting the pet beat on a raider's training dummy. My hit rating was 941 (7.83%) which was listed as 0.17% miss chance obviously.

7102 Melee (auto) attacks - 14 misses = 0.197%
7102 Melee (auto) attacks - 15 dodges = 0.211%
(which just confirms that hit rating translates to pet expertise as well)

I let Claw run as well, but got fewer samples obviously so not nearly as statistically accurate:
2575 Claw - 7 misses = 0.272%
2575 Claw - 4 dodges = 0.155%

Kaubel · 02/08/11, 7:13 PM

One more stupid fucking post and the thread gets locked and the offender gets banned.

Sparrowz · 02/08/11, 7:48 PM

I am getting some odd numbers placing an edge to mastery over expertise, I understand I am no where close to the expertise cap that may be where my numbers may be skewed.

The first report is using all the excess non haste reforgable lower weighted stats to expertise after hit cap (365 expertise rating and 329 mastery)

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			TPS	Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	%
DeathCoil	1068511183	16	97337	10977	78690	9217	81	18647	18406	19	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ghoul	910981132	13	318718	3755	226785	2922	71	15802	5850	5	0	0	76131	2046	24	0	0
ScourgeStrike	910544600	13	133528	6819	111066	5837	80	22462	11676	16	4889	4	0	0	0	0	0
ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical	885783634	13	133528	6634	133528	6634	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
MainHand	769665074	11	171385	5976	98706	4078	56	30091	8159	17	6096	3	42588	2856	24	0	0
Ghoul: Sweeping Claw	489395485	7	90731	5394	86302	5144	95	4429	10263	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gargoyle	417874146	6	58079	7195	52267	6541	90	5812	13079	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
FesteringStrike	325775933	5	33599	9696	27875	8281	80	5724	16585	16	1285	4	0	0	0	0	0
BloodPlague	280258407	4	119995	2336	102714	2042	86	17281	4083	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	105
FrostFever	242741274	4	119999	2023	102793	1770	86	17206	3534	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	105
Ghoul: Claw	204293014	3	68917	2964	65383	2820	95	3534	5628	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
DarkmoonCardHurricane	122675472	2	20590	5958	17658	5562	86	2932	8343	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
UnholyBlight	106878374	2	97337	1098	97337	0	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Army of the Dead	43076070	1	370440	116	333528	115	90	36912	130	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
BloodStrike	28006958	0	5197	5389	4287	4587	80	910	9168	17	185	3	0	0	0	0	0
IcyTouch	18581	0	3	6194	2	4161	67	1	10259	33	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
PlagueStrike	11840	0	2	5920	2	5920	67	0	0	0	1	33	0	0	0	0	0

DPS 18907(+/- 1621)
Total Damage 6806.49m
RunicPower Total runic power used: 2404592 (2791 wasted)

This one is where I gave up on expertise all together and used whatever I could into mastery (107 expertise rating and 587 mastery)

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			TPS	Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	%
DeathCoil	1084019145	16	96030	11288	77644	9480	81	18386	18927	19	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ghoul	908870859	13	318678	3747	226760	2916	71	15800	5836	5	0	0	76118	2044	24	0	0
ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical	902719029	13	132352	6821	132352	6821	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
ScourgeStrike	901889622	13	132352	6814	110103	5833	78	22249	11672	16	7925	6	0	0	0	0	0
MainHand	754268468	11	167537	6034	94791	4077	53	30212	8155	17	9943	6	42534	2854	24	0	0
Ghoul: Sweeping Claw	486793125	7	90275	5392	85855	5141	95	4420	10269	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gargoyle	418268920	6	58102	7199	52283	6543	90	5819	13089	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
FesteringStrike	325637705	5	33559	9703	27803	8280	78	5756	16579	16	2058	6	0	0	0	0	0
BloodPlague	285264648	4	119997	2377	102716	2078	86	17281	4158	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	105
FrostFever	242322637	4	119999	2019	102793	1767	86	17206	3529	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	105
Ghoul: Claw	205250579	3	69370	2959	65821	2816	95	3549	5610	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
DarkmoonCardHurricane	120484044	2	20219	5959	17333	5562	86	2886	8343	14	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
UnholyBlight	108412438	2	96030	1129	96030	0	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Army of the Dead	43041453	1	370072	116	333173	115	90	36899	129	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
BloodStrike	27859471	0	5157	5402	4234	4588	78	923	9140	17	299	6	0	0	0	0	0
IcyTouch	37711	0	8	4714	7	4198	88	1	8322	12	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
PlagueStrike	24667	0	4	6167	4	6167	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

DPS 18931(+/- 1569)
Total Damage 6815.16m
RunicPower Total runic power used: 2384208 (3427 wasted)
Threat Per Second 12161

the difference is small but still 24 dps is still an increase.

as this is my first... well second post if any other information is needed please do not hesitate.

Saranrap · 02/08/11, 11:25 PM

Isn't [Akirus the Worm-Breaker] BiS now? Why the nefarian sword with crit on it? I mean sure you reforge the crit and hit remains best, but having a lot of hit can get in the way of reforging into it on Haste/Crit gear. Also, I think the weapon speed being 3.6 on the mace is superior to the sword's 3.8.

7alisman · 02/08/11, 11:26 PM

While the difference may be small, you must also take into consideration a number of other scenarios.

A) Your variance: 1621 vs 1569, 24 increase vs a 59 variance means for all intents and purposes virtually no difference.

B) Much more notably, the sim is based on a single target. The dps increase on fights with adds will show a significantly larger difference in DPS. Granted, we aren't here to min/max AoE dps, but the difference between a theoretical 24 dps single target vs say, the 5-8k increase on Halffus Whelps.

In the end, your mileage may vary, but I don't see those findings to be significant enough to report on\focus a discussion.

Garanduil · 02/08/11, 11:46 PM

I've been checking EJ for a while now but this is the first time I post in a thread.

I wanted to know... is Consider using Kahorie's DK simulator for the stat weight?

I'm asking this because, when using this sim, I got completely different values from what he got with patch 4.0.6.
For instance my value for haste is greater (above hit even) and my value for crit is above exp.

Consider · 02/08/11, 11:58 PM

The simulator is one of the tools I use, yes, and genereally the primary one since its easiest for most to use There's other various means by which to confirm that they're roughly accurate (although, of course, each method of weights is going to have slight variation among them, as long as the order is the same and the magnitude of difference minor enough, it's a good way to confirm values). If you could share in what way your stats are differing and, if using the sims I assume you are, link the gear profile, I would be happy to look into the matter, but I'm pretty confident of my values.

As to weapons, Ashkandi is slower. Slower speed out weighs crit being slightly worse than expertise (with the hit of Ashkandi being more-or-less interchangable with the mastery of Akirus.

Garanduil · 02/09/11, 12:21 AM

Thank you Consider for responding to me so quickly

I can't really link the gear profile because I am not on the same computer as I was before.
The gear I used is the one that I have on my character Garanduil @ Sargeras - Jeu - World of Warcraft .
I went for more crit instead of expertise because the sim was also indicating it to be better for 4.0.1 in my tests.
Also I have the darkmoon card equipped but in my test I used Heart of Solace 346 (that I have in my bag) as the sim said it was better.

The stat weight I wrote down was:

Stat
Strength	2.82
Hit	0.76
Haste	1.14
Mastery	0.76
Expertise	0.6
Crit	0.64
Attack Power	0.72

My gear isn't optimized yet for 4.0.6 and I know it's not the BIS but it's not that far so should the values between my tests and yours be so different?

PS: As I wrote, my stat weight also differed from yours back in 4.0.1 and my gear was even closer to your BIS list than it is now; back then I did a few tests changing a few items or reforging and I always found crit to be above exp for instance.

Consider · 02/09/11, 3:14 AM

EP AttackPower 0.73 DPS
EP Strength 2.82
EP CritRating 0.68
EP MasteryRating 0.8
EP HasteRating 0.84
EP ExpertiseRating 0.66
Before Melee Hit Cap 1.12

Are the weights I get running the sim after importing your armory. Very similar, actually, to the ones in the OP, with the sole exception of expertise, which seems slightly off (although not terribly so). I'm not exactly sure what's going on there. To be honest, it doesn't actually matter whether the gap is .04 in crit's favor or 0.06 in expertise's favor: You're never choosing between the two on a one-for-one basis (meaning reforging or enchanting), and when the difference between the two is that small, it's incredibly unlikely (and nonexistent, in the case of BiS, for example) that it will sway you from one item to another. Even if it did, that means you're talking a whole five dps from a hundred of one stat to the other.

I will, of course, try to figure out the discrepancy, but it could be nothing more than the RNG seed, something silly like the darkmoon card, the sim having trouble with something, or who knows!

Shongi · 02/09/11, 6:14 AM

Hi
I read the updated post about the new stat weights and gemming "guide" and I just don't understand 2 things.
Consider wrote in the gemming section that we should only use purple/orange gems if the bonus is 20str or 30 of any secondary stats or more and than in the BiS list he first socketed for 20 str in the chest as it should be, but then he did not socket for the 20 str in the legs. Just like he socketed in the gloves for 10 str which he did not recommend, then in the boots he did not socket for the 10 str. I'm a little confused now, should i follow the BiS list gemming, or the gemming section?

nerdfuel · 02/09/11, 10:32 AM

Why isn't [Caelestrasz's Will] apart of the BiS No Restrictions? It has 54 more Strength than [Rage of Ages] due to the socket and item level which is obviously better, even if it has dodge instead of a DPS stat.

Halens · 02/09/11, 4:00 PM

I'm really trying to figure out why my EP values are reporting oddly. It's putting agility over haste/mastery?

EP AttackPower 0.31 DPS
EP Strength 0.9
EP Agility 0.66
EP CritRating 0.3
EP MasteryRating 0
EP HasteRating 0.26
EP ExpertiseRating 0.12
Before Melee Hit Cap 0.22
EP SpellHitRating 0
EP WeaponDPS 2.6
EP WeaponSpeed 250

I'm stumped, looking for some constructive criticism on what could be wrong.

Lifepeasant · 02/09/11, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Halens

I'm really trying to figure out why my EP values are reporting oddly. It's putting agility over haste/mastery?

I'm stumped, looking for some constructive criticism on what could be wrong.

Could the haste bug be causing problems with numbers? I noticed I was getting more DPS on Twin Dragons last night, with my Expertise trinket, over my Mastery one. For some odd reason.

Azhe · 02/09/11, 5:58 PM

I'm getting some strange EP from Kahorie's as well.

EP AttackPower 0.74 DPS
EP Strength 2.86
EP CritRating 0.68
EP MasteryRating 0.76
EP HasteRating 1.74
EP ExpertiseRating 0.46
Before Melee Hit Cap 0.84
EP SpellHitRating 0

At first, I figured that greatly increased value of haste and diminished value of exp / hitcap, was an indication that the sim was somehow ending up with a lot of empty GCDs, which isn't something I experience in practice. However looking at the simulator results, the ratio of # of SS strikes to # melee strikes, and also the ratio of SS strikes to DCs, all line up pretty well with what log parses show me doing. Also, the relative breakdown of damage closely matches logs (although the sim seems to underestimate the avg damage of many attacks...I think this might just be related to the lack of golemblood potions in the sim)

So, I'm really at a loss as to what could be causing the high haste value (and, probably related, lower exp and hit). I really doubt RNG alone could account for such a variation, especially given the comparatively sane nature of the simulator damage results.

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			TPS	Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	%	#	Avg	#	Avg	%	%
DeathCoil	3589815320	16	283527	12661	232986	10750	82	50541	21473	18	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ghoul	3202437311	14	966733	4356	686959	3388	71	48172	6776	5	0	0	231602	2369	24	0	0
ScourgeStrike+ScourgeStrikeMagical	2737208737	12	370661	7385	370661	7385	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
ScourgeStrike	2616238863	12	370661	7058	315169	6140	81	55492	12277	14	18395	5	0	0	0	0	0
MainHand	2393386430	11	510019	6272	300954	4335	56	80667	8667	15	25227	5	128398	3034	24	0	0
Ghoul: Sweeping Claw	1705755453	8	271520	6282	258071	5986	95	13449	11976	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Gargoyle	1167153750	5	170375	6850	153398	6229	90	16977	12468	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
FesteringStrike	1020251909	5	101824	10020	86314	8690	81	15510	17418	14	5038	5	0	0	0	0	0
BloodPlague	888988790	4	359976	2470	313602	2188	87	46374	4375	13	0	0	0	0	0	0	106
FrostFever	733238102	3	359984	2037	313679	1805	87	46305	3609	13	0	0	0	0	0	0	106
Ghoul: Claw	720580171	3	210641	3421	200042	3257	95	10599	6506	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
DeathandDecay	707699746	3	387719	1825	337579	1616	87	50140	3231	13	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
UnholyBlight	358973336	2	283527	1266	283527	0	100	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Army of the Dead	141989368	1	1157856	123	1041813	121	90	116043	139	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
BloodStrike	76075229	0	13474	5646	11309	4864	80	2165	9732	15	715	5	0	0	0	0	0
IcyTouch	22844	0	4	5711	3	4489	75	1	9377	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

thebitterfig · 02/09/11, 7:01 PM

The thing about Agility is that it OUGHT to be below crit, since the only thing it does is increase critical strike chance at a lower rate than pure crit rating. If this result showing up in anything other than a sim, I'd throw out a baseless guess about pet scaling, but as it's a sim rather than the game itself, it's almost surely a bug in the sim somehow.