Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame - Page 3

Kegbane · 12/17/10, 1:34 PM

I have a quick question about Disease damage.

Obviously the damage is related to your AP/Mastery when you apply the diseases, and you can carry them along at that level by renewing them with Festering Strike, for a while.

When you spread the diseases with Pestilence, does it carry over their current damage/duration? Or does it essentially reapply the diseases based on your current AP/Mastery with a brand new duration? Should be pretty quick and easy to test on the training dummies (but i'm at work!)

It also seems like we'd want to start a fight with Icy Touch/Plague Strike (to get diseases down and build some Runic Power quickly). Once Fallen Crusader procs, we pop a Strength or Mastery trinket and then reapply diseases with Outbreak (to get them both down in only 1 GC of the high DPS window), and then start DPSing hard. Does that sound right?

It seems less efficient to overwrite your diseases, but the damage difference between a "dry" disease and one boosted by Fallen Crusader/Trinkets can seem like as much as 40%, which is a "big deal" if you can spread them to other targets with Pest.

OR is the best bet to pop trinket immediately on engage and apply diseases then? What's worked best for you guys?

Flin · 12/17/10, 7:57 PM

Pestilence applies new diseases, therefore they DO NOT roll the damage of any previous applications. They use your current stats.

Kegbane · 12/19/10, 1:44 AM

Does it make sense then to save your Outbreak for when Unholy Strength/Trinket is popped (to save a GCD of max DPS time), or better to just use it early and get it on cooldown, and then reapply Icy Touch/Plague Strike when Unholy Strength/Trinket pop?

kc102 · 12/19/10, 3:19 AM

Disease damage is bad. Abysmal. Just apply them and then FeS and SS like normal.

Rankochan · 12/19/10, 1:12 PM

One thing I'd like to add about the cape slot in the pre-hardmode BiS List is that the Drape of Inimitable Fate, which is a world drop is the exact same stat wise as the Glittering Epidermis. For easy comparison as proof here is the Wowhead comparison table

Kegbane · 12/20/10, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by kc102

Disease damage is bad. Abysmal. Just apply them and then FeS and SS like normal.

Disease damage wound up being really high for me on Throne of the Four Winds, I think due to killing adds at Anshal (spreading them), and then all of the travel time involved flying between platforms. I would typically reapply right before leaving one area.

My character isn't optimized with diseases in mind of course, just making the most of what I have already.

JMBattista · 12/20/10, 1:24 PM

UH on Al'Akir:
- Phase 3: forget the pet. He despawns and cannot be summoned back.This appears consistent for all pet classes.
- Phase 2: make sure your pet comes close to you, he can easily outrange DT if you are on opposite sides of the boss, and he will need healing for this.
- Phase 1: my pet glitched out, alot, and just stood there. Spamming passive until he starts moving again usually unstuck him and once he started attacking the boss it was fine.

Magic Absorption:
- If you max this out you can stand in, for example, the Void Zone effect on Therallion & Valiona and spam deathcoils for the full 7second (glyphed) duration and still have your RP go up o0. For single impact effects (like blackout) the additional bonus RP generation is basically meaningless. However on fights with low intensity constant damage the bonus is rather nice, since if you time it for when DT falls off you can spam your ghoul up to 5 stacks and still have a substantial amount of RP left over afterwards.

I'm not sure how to model a situation of 'infinite RP for 7s' surrounded by 'normal' periods with the sim, so if someone more experienced with it could try and model out if taking advantage of those situations is worth it I'd be most appreciative.

optional22 · 12/21/10, 2:05 AM

On Al Akir:

P1: Dump RP when he casts Burst of Wind, then pop AMS. Easy full RP bar. DnD/DC until you can get back to the boss.
P3: Your ghoul doesn't desummon. I saw my pet floating in the air attacking him. Hitting DT worked as well.

• frmorrison · 12/21/10, 8:19 PM

On the profession section, the Engineering description could use some changes. The only benefits are ilevel 359 helms, the Bombs, and the Tazik Shocker or Hyperspeed (this one seems better) glove tinker.

The Nitro Boosts in Cata have a chance to fail no matter where you are and failures can include killing you, so I wouldn't use that tinket nor list it as a benefit. While you can still use the Bombs, the better version is now High-Powered Bolt Gun - Item - World of Warcraft. There are also belt tinkers, and Cardboard Assassin looks to be the only useful one (it will taunt mobs and let them attack the dummy).

Consider · 12/21/10, 8:46 PM

I'll touch it up, but the profession is nowhere near what it was in Wrath, and below most of its competitors.

Although I briefly touch upon it, I see no reason to go in-depth on the helmet; it's a perk, to be sure, but it doesn't scale, and thus will lose its usefulness quickly. All of the 372 dps helmets are superior to it, and it's only slightly superior than the 359 tier helmets, which (as Unholy, anyways), you're still better off using for set-bonus purposes. For raiders, it holds minimal value beyond the initial couple raid resets of the expansion.

As to the Bolt Gun, it's quite iffy. It triggers the GCD and has a 0.5 second cast time.; both of which hugely lessen its value. If it resets the weapon swing timer (which, based on the GCD/cast time, I would assume it does, but haven't heard confirmation either which way), then it's likely even worse than Saronite Bombs. It's better than nothing, sure, but not by much.

Tazik and Hyperspeed are both just absurdly weak. Tazik comes out slightly ahead, but you're talking 40 dps instead of 30.

By comparison, the 80 strength of other professions is approximately 240 dps. The Bolt Gun, even if you have the GCD to spare, even if it doesn't affect the weapon swing timer, and even if it always hits for its maximum damage, doesn't cover the 200 dps gap the profession has left after you factor in the glove tinker.

optional22 · 12/22/10, 4:22 AM

How are you seeing a hidden 11th tick on DnD? I tested it on dummies several times, and I only see 10. Was this a relic of Beta or 4.0? With 10 ticks, SS is better than DnD.

Consider · 12/22/10, 4:53 AM

Looking at what data I have, I last tested it personally (and received confirmation from others) December 3rd; meaning it was post 4.0.3. Nothing has changed since then, unless there was a stealth fix... which a quick run to the dummies in Ebon Hold mere minutes ago rules out:

12/22 04:51:37.600  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,43265,"Death and Decay",0x20
12/22 04:51:37.600  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,43265,"Death and Decay",0x20,DEBUFF
12/22 04:51:37.963  SPELL_MISSED,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,MISS
12/22 04:51:39.150  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:39.979  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:40.830  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:42.229  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:42.763  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:44.073  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:45.146  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:45.942  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:46.913  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,853,-1,32,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
12/22 04:51:47.445  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,43265,"Death and Decay",0x20,DEBUFF
12/22 04:51:47.445  SPELL_MISSED,0x0180000003C97C8D,"Consider",0x511,0xF1307F230000171F,"Highlord's Nemesis Trainer",0xa28,52212,"Death and Decay",0x20,MISS

Still happening! It's possible there's some random factor unintentionally granting the 11th tick, but if so, I certainly can't narrow it down. Whenever I specifically test it, I get 11 (or 16 glyphed). Who knows. I would be quite interested in any logs to the contrary.

Moonpie · 12/22/10, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

I'll touch it up, but the profession is nowhere near what it was in Wrath, and below most of its competitors.

Although I briefly touch upon it, I see no reason to go in-depth on the helmet; it's a perk, to be sure, but it doesn't scale, and thus will lose its usefulness quickly. All of the 372 dps helmets are superior to it, and it's only slightly superior than the 359 tier helmets, which (as Unholy, anyways), you're still better off using for set-bonus purposes. For raiders, it holds minimal value beyond the initial couple raid resets of the expansion.

As to the Bolt Gun, it's quite iffy. It triggers the GCD and has a 0.5 second cast time.; both of which hugely lessen its value. If it resets the weapon swing timer (which, based on the GCD/cast time, I would assume it does, but haven't heard confirmation either which way), then it's likely even worse than Saronite Bombs. It's better than nothing, sure, but not by much.

Tazik and Hyperspeed are both just absurdly weak. Tazik comes out slightly ahead, but you're talking 40 dps instead of 30.

By comparison, the 80 strength of other professions is approximately 240 dps. The Bolt Gun, even if you have the GCD to spare, even if it doesn't affect the weapon swing timer, and even if it always hits for its maximum damage, doesn't cover the 200 dps gap the profession has left after you factor in the glove tinker.

A major issue you've ignored is that of Engineering specific gems - Cogwheels and Hydraulics unless I'm mistaken - which provide around 200 of a rating (cannot be the same rating twice, nor a primary stat like Strength) so for minmaxing sake, lets sake one Hit cogwheel and one Haste hydraulic. A i359 head with 2x 200 bonus stats vs. a i359 head with one strength gem is a clear profession boost in Engineerings favour (if only in this tier of raiding). Please include this, along with the glove enchant, as part of engineerings value.

kc102 · 12/22/10, 1:23 PM

Has anyone picked up Anti-Magic Zone? I pulled a point out of Imp BT to grab it since I was doing Bastion. I really can't eyeball it and say it helped for sure, but there's quite a lot of magic damage and healers not having to heal 80k worth of damage seems worthwhile.

Consider · 12/22/10, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Moonpie

A major issue you've ignored is that of Engineering specific gems - Cogwheels and Hydraulics unless I'm mistaken - which provide around 200 of a rating (cannot be the same rating twice, nor a primary stat like Strength) so for minmaxing sake, lets sake one Hit cogwheel and one Haste hydraulic. A i359 head with 2x 200 bonus stats vs. a i359 head with one strength gem is a clear profession boost in Engineerings favour (if only in this tier of raiding). Please include this, along with the glove enchant, as part of engineerings value.

All they do is let you pick your secondary stats; it doesn't actually give you more stats total. It's simply a means of customization, nothing more.

The 359 tier helmet is still superior to the Engineering helmet. Yes, only because of the set bonus, but superior is superior. The engineering helmets have no place in this tier of raiding.