Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame - Page 6

mortalitasx · 12/29/10, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

Weapon dps was something in the neighborhood of 6 dps for 2H.

Based on testing data from both Rogues and Warriors, they seem to net about 4PPM from the trinket, making it worth ~400 dps (the proc is effected by CoE/EP/EM, does crit, and so forth), which would place it solidly above all other 359 trinkets (aside from License to Slay). That said, assuming one isn't dual wielding, we won't get as many procs (although we do have the GCD advantage on Warriors)... but even if we only average 2.5 procs a minute, it's still superior to Heart of Rage et al.

So, yeah, it looks to be very, very good, and almost certainly better than almost all other 359 options (although, even at 4ppm, worse than the 372 ones). That said, it's entirely possible the warrior/rogue testing was somehow flawed or we end up with severely less procs. I don't wish to cost you thousands of gold by saying to keep it, but that would appear to be the smart move.

And, of course, if you do, provide testing!

If this is the case why do you still have Heart of Rage on the BiS list instead of the Darkmoon Card?

Bobfred21 · 12/29/10, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by HellHamsterr

I find bloodtapping useful whenever there is a single blood rune available while the other is on cooldown together with the rest of your runes, if you use it then, you will get a death rune, and the neat part, your single bloodrune will mysteriously transform to a deathrune, so with 1 blood tap you get to use 2 scourge strikes.

Thats the thing, this hasn't been working for me as unholy lately. Most often I just get the current rune transformed into a blood rune and I'm not sure why. It works fine for frost but not as unholy. Has anyone else encountered this?

Consider · 12/29/10, 8:49 PM

Originally Posted by mortalitasx

If this is the case why do you still have Heart of Rage on the BiS list instead of the Darkmoon Card?

I'm still waiting for some concrete logs and the like of a Death Knight - ideally Unholy, but I could extrapolate from Frost - using the trinket, for a more accurate picture of how many procs we can expect. Up until this point, all I've seen are (conflicting) anecdotal reports from DKs using it, but nothing objective and independent, and what math I've done has been based on data from other classes which, obviously, won't translate perfectly over to us.

If the trinket does happen to be better, it really doesn't change much of anything gearing wise; you would reforge the crit on your cloak to expertise, but that's basically it.

MKlades · 12/30/10, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dekrypt

Another thought here is, if the duration on your diseases is fine and your Outbreak will be off CD, keeping in mind the use of BT where you have uubfDF, it would seem that hitting SS and IT would be smarter than Fes. Please feel free to add to this.

I could be wrong, but it seems like the most likely reason you'd end up with those exact runes are if you hit BT when you had uubfBF or uubfbF. In the former case it would make more sense to me to use FeS, BT SS. In the latter case it meant something must have gone south because you shouldn't normally end up with orphan frost runes while your disease duration is still fine, no?

Fauh · 12/30/10, 12:56 PM

Might be a bit of a de-railing of the topic however would taking one point from Improved Blood Tap to spec into AMZ hurt dps in very noticable way?

I'm considering convincing our DK to pick up AMZ to help out with some very concentrated AOE damage(Like Maloriak Flame Cone etc). But would that hurt his dps to much? (we're not having problems with Maloriak but every little bit helps)

Dekrypt · 12/30/10, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by MKlades

I could be wrong, but it seems like the most likely reason you'd end up with those exact runes are if you hit BT when you had uubfBF or uubfbF. In the former case it would make more sense to me to use FeS, BT SS. In the latter case it meant something must have gone south because you shouldn't normally end up with orphan frost runes while your disease duration is still fine, no?

MKlades, you are correct. I actually misspoke as I was in a rush at work. The scenario I meant was uubfBD. This occurs when you have already used BT and the BT aura has just dissipated. So the runes go from uubfDd one second to uubfBD the next. This is actually the result of using BT earlier as you just mentioned and not cancelling the BT aura.

If you cancel the aura after getting your extra SS in then you will just plan on hitting FeS.

Sorry for the confusion.

My opinion is that you are going to end up with the same amount of SS whether you are spamming BT on cd, or just sticking with FeS to refresh death runes. At least that's the way it seems. As I mentioned before, I think it's purely situational. As such, is it really necessary to take ImpBT in the spec for optimum DPS potential, or do we have 2 extra points that can be utilized elsewhere?

Weidekuh · 12/31/10, 6:08 AM

Small addition to the 2H-pre-Hardmode Weapon.

If you have the patience to lvl archaeology you can get [Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds] much earlier. It's (nearly) the same as [Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood]

Just save up all your troll stuff until 450 and then use them all at once. That's how i did it and i was lucky enough to get it. I had around 400 troll artifacts and many scrolls saved up to turn in.

sportlov · 12/31/10, 8:38 AM

Chances are you're not going to get it any time soon, even if you spend alot of time digging for troll artifacts, even after 525.

I myself have spent over 3000 fragments, and collectively in my guild we've spent over 10 000 fragments after 450 looking for the sword, and no one has gotten it yet. Most of us did save every troll fragment from leveling 1-450 as well.

And even if you would feel lucky enough to get it, everyone can probably figure out for themselves that this is a good weapon, especially with all the discussion and ruckus going on about it.

(Also, it's not best in slot, and there are no "second best in slot" on the other slots either.)

Either way, congratulations on your sword. Myself I would not count on getting it before Ashkandi, but some have in fact gotten it within 10 solved artifacts going past 450.

MKlades · 12/31/10, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dekrypt

My opinion is that you are going to end up with the same amount of SS whether you are spamming BT on cd, or just sticking with FeS to refresh death runes. At least that's the way it seems. As I mentioned before, I think it's purely situational. As such, is it really necessary to take ImpBT in the spec for optimum DPS potential, or do we have 2 extra points that can be utilized elsewhere?

If you use BT while both blood runes are down it will immediately finish the cooldown on the one that is recharging.
So as long as you time it correctly, hitting BT every time it was up would basically result in an extra partial rune every 30 seconds. It would be more useful if it refreshed the rune that wasn't recharging, but as it stands I think I agree that ImpBT is not an essential talent to take. I mostly use it to cover mistakes (whoops, my unholy/death runes are on cooldown and I just hit 5 stacks of shadow infusion, BT+DT time) so having it up more than once a minute shouldn't be that necessary.

deathbud · 12/31/10, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fauh

Might be a bit of a de-railing of the topic however would taking one point from Improved Blood Tap to spec into AMZ hurt dps in very noticable way?

I'm considering convincing our DK to pick up AMZ to help out with some very concentrated AOE damage(Like Maloriak Flame Cone etc). But would that hurt his dps to much? (we're not having problems with Maloriak but every little bit helps)

AMZ I have found is only really useful in the Chimaeron encounter . The use was for the collapsing part of that fight to mitigate the large amount of AOE damage that the raid takes. The reason it is that the low amount of damage it takes if its a trickle of AOE damage is a loss of DPS for the loss of a UH Rune . In that specific encounter the raid takes a large amount of AOE damage at once to where the actual 75% is mitigated if cycled with your heals CD's ( i.e PW Barrier ) .

Keep in mind that it will only be up a moment and requires a UH rune. So the loss of 15 seconds on the Improved Blood Tap in theory could be a loss of DPS if you understand the proper use of BT.

kc102 · 12/31/10, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by MKlades

If you use BT while both blood runes are down it will immediately finish the cooldown on the one that is recharging.
So as long as you time it correctly, hitting BT every time it was up would basically result in an extra partial rune every 30 seconds. It would be more useful if it refreshed the rune that wasn't recharging, but as it stands I think I agree that ImpBT is not an essential talent to take. I mostly use it to cover mistakes (whoops, my unholy/death runes are on cooldown and I just hit 5 stacks of shadow infusion, BT+DT time) so having it up more than once a minute shouldn't be that necessary.

I've found that the BT bug occurs sometimes, and more often if your Blood rune is halfway recharged. Both runes are blood on cd, and not death.

Voric · 12/31/10, 6:34 PM

I have a question if someone wouldn't mind answering it. A Dk I know is using Heart of Solace Heroic and License to Slay and is trying to tell me that Fury of Angerforge is better for him as Unholy? I've asked DK's and they have said the trinket is decent and most people say it's better for a Fury Warrior or a Frost DK but this Unholy Dk insists that it's way better than his current trinkets? Also based on the reviews of the trinket I again have heard its not good for UH Dk's really at all so can anyone shed any light??

Heart of Solace(HEROIC)
Heart of Solace - Item - World of Warcraft

License to Slay
License to Slay - Item - World of Warcraft

Fury of Angerforge
Fury of Angerforge - Item - World of Warcraft

Bobfred21 · 12/31/10, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Voric

I have a question if someone wouldn't mind answering it. A Dk I know is using Heart of Solace Heroic and License to Slay and is trying to tell me that Fury of Angerforge is better for him as Unholy? I've asked DK's and they have said the trinket is decent and most people say it's better for a Fury Warrior or a Frost DK but this Unholy Dk insists that it's way better than his current trinkets? Also based on the reviews of the trinket I again have heard its not good for UH Dk's really at all so can anyone shed any light??

Heart of Solace(HEROIC)
Heart of Solace - Item - World of Warcraft

License to Slay
License to Slay - Item - World of Warcraft

Fury of Angerforge
Fury of Angerforge - Item - World of Warcraft

This was discussed earlier in the thread and Fury of Angerforge doesn't build stacks fast enough to be viable for unholy 2h.

Jonneh · 01/01/11, 6:23 PM

As requested Consider, and any others. Picked up the [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane] 16 mins ago.

Here is a 6 mins or so log on a dummy, 14.69% haste (no windfury).

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

[23:05:56.180] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 5047
[23:06:40.326] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4195
[23:07:02.331] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4197
[23:07:16.435] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4201
[23:07:35.756] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4497
[23:08:03.354] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy *7946*
[23:08:05.514] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 5733
[23:08:34.162] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 5485
[23:08:42.607] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4568
[23:08:51.486] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6511
[23:09:10.136] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4183
[23:09:34.036] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6671
[23:09:44.944] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6021
[23:11:04.238] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6699
[23:11:11.896] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 5598
[23:11:13.284] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6878
[23:11:35.800] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6884
[23:11:36.295] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 4683
[23:11:42.394] Jonneh Lightning Strike Raider's Training Dummy 6936

Louky · 01/01/11, 9:01 PM

One little thing a Hunter-friend of mine noticed when testing [Darkmoon Card: Hurricane] is that the proc is handled as a spell, implying a 17% base miss-chance.