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Old 01/07/11, 10:12 AM   #121
fancydethfst
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Hellscream
Originally Posted by Flopi View Post
My guess is that by buffing SS they are trying to remove DnD from our single target rotation and also nerf the UH DW viability.
Looks like they changed their minds, didnt make it to the official patch notes and was just data mined

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Old 01/07/11, 12:19 PM   #122
Sahlia
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by fancydethfst View Post
Looks like they changed their minds, didnt make it to the official patch notes and was just data mined
The official patch notes are always incomplete. It's more important if that buff made it on the PTR. Anyways, before they implement our new mastery, we can't talk about balancing.

edit: First time checking on the PTR, it shows SS getting 18% damage as shadow damage per disease instead of 12 (like it's been stated). Mastery not yet reworked.

Last edited by Sahlia : 01/07/11 at 2:27 PM.

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Old 01/07/11, 7:19 PM   #123
Akumos
Glass Joe
 
Akumos's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Black Dragonflight
Was a mastery rework even on the table for this patch? I forget what was said about it. I just tried a quick google and couldn't even find the original post. I don't really recall any promises about it, just that it wasn't working out and they planned to change it to work with Scourge Strike damage.

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Old 01/07/11, 7:36 PM   #124
Diello
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Cenarion Circle
Ghostcrawler didn't give a timetable but in a blog post he wrote "Unholy DKs are another spec for whom mastery just isn’t working out. Our current intent is to redesign their mastery so that their attacks cause more damage to diseased targets (in a similar manner to the Restoration druid mastery)." Many, if not most, of the other changes mentioned in that blog post are in the current patch notes, so it seems likely that our mastery change would be coming soon as well.

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Old 01/09/11, 7:55 PM   #125
Mind
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
*deleted*

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Old 01/10/11, 5:20 AM   #126
Khamael
Glass Joe
 
Khamael's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Durotan (EU)
Originally Posted by Sahlia View Post
The official patch notes are always incomplete. It's more important if that buff made it on the PTR. Anyways, before they implement our new mastery, we can't talk about balancing.

edit: First time checking on the PTR, it shows SS getting 18% damage as shadow damage per disease instead of 12 (like it's been stated). Mastery not yet reworked.
Did you recognize any DPS increase from SS?
Because as far as I know, the increased Damage against diseased targets was just a tooltip fix and the real DPS increase has already been implemented via a hotfix some time ago.
On mmoc, the datamined stuff was marked as "most likely tooltip "fixes" from past changes and could already be live". This could explain why there is no note about it in the official PTR patchnotes

Last edited by Khamael : 01/10/11 at 5:27 AM. Reason: clarification and grammar fix

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Old 01/10/11, 8:19 AM   #127
Sahlia
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by Khamael View Post
Did you recognize any DPS increase from SS?
Because as far as I know, the increased Damage against diseased targets was just a tooltip fix and the real DPS increase has already been implemented via a hotfix some time ago.
On mmoc, the datamined stuff was marked as "most likely tooltip "fixes" from past changes and could already be live". This could explain why there is no note about it in the official PTR patchnotes
You're right. No SS Buff, just a tooltip fix. So far, we got only a straight 5% strength nerf.

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Old 01/10/11, 10:07 PM   #128
RukiaFT
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by Sahlia View Post
You're right. No SS Buff, just a tooltip fix. So far, we got only a straight 5% strength nerf.


This was done on the live server. No Scourge Strike buff talents/glyphs. No EP. 1 Disease up.

1799 Physical
216 Shadow
= 12%

It is not just a tooltip correction. The Scourge Strike buff is not currently implemented on Live servers.

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Old 01/11/11, 2:01 AM   #129
aaaaarrrgghh
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Laughing Skull
So the PvP 4-set bonus + 2-set bonus amounts to 250 strength. That's 62.5 strength per piece.

If you replace your BiS 359 raid gear with some Conquest Points gear, your BiS doesn't seem so BiS anymore...
Shoulders:
PvP: +62.5 Strength (set)
+15 Strength
+159 Expertise
T11: +149 Hit
+169 Haste
+10 Haste (socket bonus)

Now, using stat weights:
PvP: 77.5*3.09 + 159*.66 = 344.415 DPS advantage
T11: 149*.78 + 179*.75 = 250.17 DPS advantage

Difference of 93.98 favoring 365 PvP gear.

Another calculation:
Vicious Gladiator's Signet of Accuracy: +134 Hit
+11 Strength
Band of Bees: +127 Mastery
+127 Haste

Signet: 134*.78 + 11*3.09 = 137.51
Bees: 127*.24 + 127*.75 = 125.73

VP capped in hours of raiding just for a ring, or CP capped in 20 minutes for a (maybe) better ring? Nice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it beneficial to wear 4 pieces of 365 PvP gear along with the rest of your raid gear? I'm in no way an expert so I may be overlooking something, and please don't ask me to spreadsheet it because for the life of me I don't know how :P

Edit: I did not consider the T11 set bonus. ~+3% for 2 pc and 4 pc.
Replacing gear in the following slots gives:
Shoulder: ~94 dps
Legs: ~88 dps
Gloves: ~201 dps
Chest: ~81

So as it turns out, if you're doing above 15k dps, which you will be, the T11 is slightly better. I was wrong about the tier gear, but my question for the ring still stands. And PvP gear is arguably easier to obtain, and 352 PvP gear is better for starting raids than Heroic gear.

Last edited by aaaaarrrgghh : 01/11/11 at 2:25 AM.

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Old 01/11/11, 7:21 AM   #130
sportlov
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Jaedenar (EU)
About the rings, for this to be a fair comparision, due to the hit cap being easily reached, using the numbers from the front page.

Reforging the hit off of the Gladiator's Signet to haste lowers it's value very slightly, and leaves you with 81 hit.
In fair comparision I took the liberty of reforging the Band of Bees' mastery to hit, leaving it with 77 mastery and 50 hit.

This was enough to put the Band of Bees about 15 DPS ahead of the Gladiator's Signet, and leave you with about 31 hit less, which in many cases is a very undesirable stat, due to the hit cap.

In either case the Gladiator's Signet is not a bad choice, provided you're not already geared with two item level 359 rings.

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Old 01/11/11, 11:18 AM   #131
Bobfred21
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Lothar
Originally Posted by sportlov View Post
About the rings, for this to be a fair comparision, due to the hit cap being easily reached, using the numbers from the front page.

Reforging the hit off of the Gladiator's Signet to haste lowers it's value very slightly, and leaves you with 81 hit.
In fair comparision I took the liberty of reforging the Band of Bees' mastery to hit, leaving it with 77 mastery and 50 hit.

This was enough to put the Band of Bees about 15 DPS ahead of the Gladiator's Signet, and leave you with about 31 hit less, which in many cases is a very undesirable stat, due to the hit cap.

In either case the Gladiator's Signet is not a bad choice, provided you're not already geared with two item level 359 rings.
To be fair, we're probably going to want one of the rings from Conclave of Wind anyway since they can drop a very nice strength based haste/crit ring. Which, by all counts is significantly better than [Band of Bees]

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Old 01/11/11, 11:23 AM   #132
vicdan
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Priest
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
I had some kind soul send me some logs of the them raiding with the trinket as well, and your results seem to confirm theirs: the proc hovers between 250 and 300 dps, placing the trinket ahead of [Crushing Weight] and [Fury of Angerforge], but still behind [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage].
This is strange. I did not save the logs, but for me the trinket proc ended up constituting 3.8% of my DPS for a night of raiding a few days ago, according to Recount, and i was averaging 18k, in 2H Unholy. Based on that data I thought Hurricane to be insanely good.

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Old 01/11/11, 1:39 PM   #133
Lamperouqe
Von Kaiser
 
Lamperouqe's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Stormreaver (EU)
This could be arguable and up to preference, but I would like to note that in 359 gear expertise is only 0.04 DPS better per point than crit on a tank and spank type of fight, making it not worth it to reforge on various Cataclysm encounters. There are hardly any encounters that let you stay on melee range of the boss for the whole duration of the fight and do not have any secondary targets.

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Old 01/11/11, 1:40 PM   #134
MKlades
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ravenholdt
The datamined changes from the latest PTR:

Frost
* Runic Focus now also increases spells change to hits by 9%. Spells are all Death Knight abilities that are not direct weapon strikes.

Unholy
* Blightcaller is now called Dreadblade and Increases Shadow damage done by 20%. Each point of Mastery increases Shadow damage by an additional 2.5%.
* Virulence no longer increases chance to hit with spells. Now increases the damage done by your diseases by 10/20/30%.
* Sudden Doom now only procs from main-hand auto attacks, proc rate no longer specified and now just shows up as "higher than rank 1", "higher than rank 2".
* Necrotic Strike casting time increase effect now lasts 10 sec, down from 15 sec.

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Old 01/11/11, 3:15 PM   #135
Sahlia
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by MKlades View Post
The datamined changes from the latest PTR:

Frost
* Runic Focus now also increases spells change to hits by 9%. Spells are all Death Knight abilities that are not direct weapon strikes.

Unholy
* Blightcaller is now called Dreadblade and Increases Shadow damage done by 20%. Each point of Mastery increases Shadow damage by an additional 2.5%.
* Virulence no longer increases chance to hit with spells. Now increases the damage done by your diseases by 10/20/30%.
* Sudden Doom now only procs from main-hand auto attacks, proc rate no longer specified and now just shows up as "higher than rank 1", "higher than rank 2".
* Necrotic Strike casting time increase effect now lasts 10 sec, down from 15 sec.
Shadow damage is about 40% of our damage (a little more). So the new mastery will come down to be a 1% damage buff per 1 mastery. Napkin math showing it pretty close to haste. I suppose a little weaker.

But mastery has 1 big advantage: it scales really heavy with AOE damage. 1% haste brings no additional AOE damage, but 1% mastery brings surely more than 1.5% AOE damage. There are some fights where adds are present.

I estimate that the mastery change will be a 5% damage buff, buffed diseases should result in another 3%. Sudden Doom could be a decent nerf since we don't know it's actual procc chance. Along with the 5% strength nerf, it's safe to assume that in it's current state, Unholy will get a nice damage buff (which clearly isn't working as intended).


Originally Posted by RukiaFT View Post
This was done on the live server. No Scourge Strike buff talents/glyphs. No EP. 1 Disease up.

1799 Physical
216 Shadow
= 12%

It is not just a tooltip correction. The Scourge Strike buff is not currently implemented on Live servers.
You are somethat wrong. All logs are showing my shadow part being close to 65% of it's physical part. Considering we get 8% damage from EP (and nothing else), i am pretty sure that it's already 18% per disease on live.

Last edited by Sahlia : 01/11/11 at 3:25 PM.

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