Frost DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, This Is My Life - Page 10

alloy20 · 01/09/11, 6:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hidden

Where did you get physical damage from?
It's increased melee damage and should thus include FS.

My bad, ignore that. I'm getting melee and physical mixed up.

LKratos · 01/09/11, 2:14 PM

The fact that 2h frost is ~ 10% behind the others, and that 12% affects everything except howling blast and diseases, I feel like 2h frost will be VERY close, at least to the point where you can't call someone a scrub for playing it.

(It also makes the 2h drop from magmaw VERY attractive).

Abau · 01/10/11, 10:47 AM

I am very confused by blizzards actions. I would have to doubt they intend 2h frost to be a raid contender due to them nerfing dw unholy. Saying that frost can play either while unholy cannot is illogical, but then again how often is blizzard illogical. Hopefully someone can post parses from the PTR to show its current state.

Kaejin · 01/10/11, 12:05 PM

The difference is that Blizzard has previously stated (during the tree revisions during beta) that they support 2h Frost but oppose DW Unholy, and that these two ideas are part of the design goal for the two trees.

bwfrazier · 01/10/11, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by emothianes

I'm not so sure. Its nearly possible to keep it up now assuming you're meleeing consistently so assuming the buff is reasonable it should make it reliable.

Also, the crit can be reforged to Mastery where as the haste on the weight cannot.

Good point, that had escaped me. In this case, using the values Consider posted in the OP for DW with 359 item level:

Stat	Value
Strength	2.62
Mastery	0.82
Haste	0.48
Crit	0.58

I've come up with the following ranking for trinkets by converting the proc into a static stat (the estimated 400 DPS proc is for Lightning Strike and based off parses such as the one from Kroot above):

Stat	[Darkmoon Card: Hurricane]	[Crushing Weight]	[Fury of Angerforge]	[Crushing Weight]	[Impatience of Youth]
Strength	321	363	321	321	267.5
Mastery	0	0	128	0	321
Crit	0	0	193	0	0
Haste	0	363	0	321	0
Estimated Proc	400	0	0	0	0
DPS	1241.02	1125.30	1057.92	995.1	964.07

Edit: Modified the table based on inputs about the Tol Barad trinket.

The hit/expertise trinkets ([License to Slay],[Heart of Rage] and [Heart of Rage] will of course be ranked higher if you need them to cap those stats.

Thyrial · 01/10/11, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Abau

I am very confused by blizzards actions. I would have to doubt they intend 2h frost to be a raid contender due to them nerfing dw unholy. Saying that frost can play either while unholy cannot is illogical, but then again how often is blizzard illogical. Hopefully someone can post parses from the PTR to show its current state.

The reason they don't want DW Unholy to stick around is because the tree was not designed with it as an option. As we've all seen too many times in this game, when you use something in an unintended manner it tends to cause a alot of scaling and balance problems. Rather then have to try and balance something they never intended to be viable in the first place, which is a nightmare to do, they'd rather make it not viable at all.

2H Frost however is something they want viable for multiple reasons, the main one being Unholy's ghoul. Pets in WoW are a bit of an acquired taste and rather then force people who like 2H weapons to deal with the pet they want them to have another option, prior to 4.0 this was not a problem because they could be Blood.

I've run some preliminary tests on the PTR and they all seem to show 2H being a bit ahead of DW currently in mostly 346 gear. I'm not sure how they scale in comparison to each other so I can't say if that's true at all gear levels. If I have the time tonight I'll do some more testing and get some logs.

emothianes · 01/10/11, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by bwfrazier

One question I have is that the tooltip for [Impatience of Youth] says it has a 2 minute cooldown which breaks the convention for most trinkets of 5x the proc duration for on use trinkets, so I am assuming the cooldown is really 5x (100 seconds). Can anybody that actually has this trinket verify this is the case?

The hit/expertise trinkets ([License to Slay],[Heart of Rage] and [Heart of Rage] will of course be ranked higher if you need them to cap those stats.

Confirmed, Impatience is definitely a 120 second CD. Somewhat makes sense that it would be under powered due to availability.

Vlad Antlerkov · 01/10/11, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by bwfrazier

One question I have is that the tooltip for [Impatience of Youth] says it has a 2 minute cooldown which breaks the convention for most trinkets of 5x the proc duration for on use trinkets, so I am assuming the cooldown is really 5x (100 seconds). Can anybody that actually has this trinket verify this is the case?

In general, the rule for Cata trinkets is that an on-use proc has a CD 6x longer than the effect, and an on-hit proc has an ICD 5x longer than the effect.

Serj · 01/11/11, 1:47 PM

Runic Focus now also increases spells change to hits by 9%. Spells are all Death Knight abilities that are not direct weapon strikes.

From datamine.

If this stays on the patch notes, it means that we'll be able to interrupt with total reliability (as long as we have 8% hit if I'm not mistaken), which could raise the situational value of hit above 5% until 8% and make Endless Winter desirable for min\maxing on fights with a lot of interrupts.

For 25man maybe it doesn't mean much, as there will probably be more people that can interrupt reliably, but for 10man it could be a somewhat big change.

Haakkon · 01/11/11, 4:50 PM

Volatile Alchemist Stone (Volatile Alchemist Stone - Item - World of Warcraft)

This looks to be a really good trinket for us. Gemmed it's 351 strength and 194 mastery this comes out to ~1078 dps. Now this isn't including calculations with PoF. This seems to be ahead of [Impatience of Youth] for pre-raid trinkets from my napkin math.

Lciee · 01/11/11, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hiddenshadows57

"Virulence no longer increases chance to hit with spells. Now increases the damage done by your diseases by 10/20/30%"

Datamined.

Because of this change. Would we be dropping 3 points out of the blood tree to respec here?

Just some quick napkin math from a top WoL parse:

2/2 IBT provides roughly 1 extra obliterate in our rotation every 30 seconds. Looking at parses for Chimaeron Frost DK's are using 10.67 Obliterates per 30 seconds.Without IBT that would drop to 9.67 Obliterates every 30 seconds netting a rough loss of 25k damage every 30 seconds. Diseases on the same log are providing 85.6k damage every 30 seconds. If that is improved by 30% that is a gain of 25.6k dmg.

Seems that 2/2 IBT is a better gain over 3/3 Virulence however it is hard to day how these both will scale with better gear and mastery on Frost Fever.

Hiddenshadows57 · 01/11/11, 5:39 PM

So it's a very minimal buff then.

Looking at it from another perspective though, it removes some extra button pushing since you don't need to pop IBT as often... that could remove a little human error from the rotation, because if you mess up the timing on IBT you lose DPS.. with this you gain DPS no matter what.

you also gain a talent point to play around with, Since butchery is pointless if you don't need to drop down a tier. obviously it's not that big of a DPS increase since you'd be putting that talent point into a situational talent(RPM or Endless winter)

We'll have to see.

Oroborous · 01/11/11, 5:45 PM

At work right now so I can't run the math but just to bring it up incase someone gets it before I get home what about the idea of replacing glyph of Frost Strike for Glyph of Icy Touch with the new Virulence changes and taking 3 our of blood?

Baphomette · 01/11/11, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hiddenshadows57

you also gain a talent point to play around with, Since butchery is pointless if you don't need to drop down a tier. obviously it's not that big of a DPS increase since you'd be putting that talent point into a situational talent(RPM or Endless winter)

I'm currently 3/31/7 (EW/Virulence), and I'm debating my current 3/3 Virulence 1/3 Morbidity vs 2/3 2/3 post-patch... but leaning towards the former.

Originally Posted by Ouroburos

At work right now so I can't run the math but just to bring it up incase someone gets it before I get home what about the idea of replacing glyph of Frost Strike for Glyph of Icy Touch with the new Virulence changes and taking 3 our of blood?

My suspicion is that even if GoIT maths out as a single-target increase, there's a quality of life issue where you're more likely to get screwed out of RE procs and be left autoattacking. I wouldn't want to take anything away from the rune->RP->rune feedback at current levels of haste (only around 16% haste atm and every time RE leaves me high and dry waiting for a rune is one time too many

).

Tyhma · 01/12/11, 3:09 AM

Just to say :

Synapse Springs now increase Agility, Strength, or Intellect (whichever is highest for the character).

Enchant Bracer - Major Strength - Permanently enchant bracers to increase Strength by 50. Requires a level 300 or higher item.

It seems to me that this makes engeenering being back the best professions for us, as the synapse is equivalent to 96 strengh permanently, and the lethercrafting is reduced to a 80 strengh gain in regard of the incoming bracers enchant, if i'm not missing anything.