Frost DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, This Is My Life - Page 26

Goreskull · 03/22/11, 1:05 PM

Thanks guys, but what I specifically was asking was Dual Wield-Frost or 2handed-frost. Which will be better after 4.2? I'm about to choose between epic 2h and epic 1handers.

Ghraabthar · 03/22/11, 2:33 PM

Well looking at the simulationcraft results at 372 levels of "bis" gear 2h is actually 900 dps higher. One of the reasons I believe is that with 2h Frost, it generates more RP therefore it has a higher contribution of overall damage by FS. Therefore, a flat FS buff across the board would benefit 2H more. HB is getting buffed, but that should be an equal buff to both specs. Finally, the Blood of the North change may benefit 2H frost in that not having to BS frees up some GCDs in an already GCD constrained spec. This may be a wash since BotN gives more Obliterates per cycle which would benefit DW Frost more.

xbit · 03/22/11, 2:52 PM

Am I the only one playing DW frost that doesn't really feel GCD constrained outside of heroism? Sure, sometimes I'll have back-to-back RE procs and lots of Rime procs around the same time and I'm capped, but equally as often I'll dump all my RP and see no RE procs. SimC puts me at waiting for resources ~1% of the time, and I waste 6.7% of my RP with 2/3 RPM. At 3/3 RPM it's 3% RP wasted. I suppose the people who feel GCD constrained take 0/3 RPM then?

Taiyoken · 03/22/11, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ghraabthar

Well looking at the simulationcraft results at 372 levels of "bis" gear 2h is actually 900 dps higher. One of the reasons I believe is that with 2h Frost, it generates more RP therefore it has a higher contribution of overall damage by FS. Therefore, a flat FS buff across the board would benefit 2H more. HB is getting buffed, but that should be an equal buff to both specs. Finally, the Blood of the North change may benefit 2H frost in that not having to BS frees up some GCDs in an already GCD constrained spec. This may be a wash since BotN gives more Obliterates per cycle which would benefit DW Frost more.

More FS also equates to more OB from RE procs. OB will also have more damage because you'll never have to Blood Strike anymore.

Also you tend to stack Mastery as DW Frost (at least that was the consensus last I checked), so DW FS hits harder than 2H FS. The two specs seem pretty equal although both specs have a kick of RNG to them.

gamma_ray · 03/22/11, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Taiyoken

More FS also equates to more OB from RE procs. OB will also have more damage because you'll never have to Blood Strike anymore.

Also you tend to stack Mastery as DW Frost (at least that was the consensus last I checked), so DW FS hits harder than 2H FS. The two specs seem pretty equal although both specs have a kick of RNG to them.

I think that the consensus is actually out right now on whether to stack Mastery, or Haste and Crit while running in UP. Recently I switched all of my enchants and reforging over to haste from mastery and I am seeing a slight increase in DPS. Its also a bit more fun due to the 1/2 second GCD and more procs on everything.

Zenwhoa · 03/23/11, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by gamma_ray

I think that the consensus is actually out right now on whether to stack Mastery, or Haste and Crit while running in UP. Recently I switched all of my enchants and reforging over to haste from mastery and I am seeing a slight increase in DPS. Its also a bit more fun due to the 1/2 second GCD and more procs on everything.

Take a closer look at my data a few posts back. I think it's pretty clear that it should go haste first, even if you are 1h dw or 2h up/fp. In fact, until gear gets > 359 ilevel average or so, 2h FP is probably superior on most fights. 1h dw and 2h fp should both switch to UP during lusts for more DPS. UP scales better with haste, so eventually it overtakes it. However, you must also consider that on every fight except for Chim, mastery can potentially scale much better than on sims due to AoE or DoTs ticking on multiple mobs. Right now, every spec is haste > crit > mastery, with crit and mastery being VERY close. Mastery basically overtakes crit if you are doing roughly 45% or more damage as frost per fight, which you will see on numerous fights even for 2H, as long as you are paying close attention to refreshing DoT timers. As far as how this will change with patch, mastery will just get very slightly better.

Right now at ~359 gear I try to get ~1500 haste, ~900 crit, ~900 mastery. Post patch I might go for ~1500 haste, ~1100 mastery, ~700 crit. Haste improves slightly post patch too (more so for frost) as all specs have slightly more room due to the blood strike change.

DStomper · 03/23/11, 6:23 PM

The 2H Pre-Hardmode BiS list lists Heart of Rage as dropping off BoT; Monstrosity. It drops off BWD; Chimaeron.

Celliana · 03/23/11, 6:43 PM

I am curious why there is a certain choice made in the Gear section.

Rage of Ages - Heroic - 215 STR, 322 STA, NO SOCKET, 143 Hit, 143 Mastery
Caelestraz's Will - Heroic - 229 STR, 344 STA, Socket, 138 Dodge, 128 Mastery

So, if you add a 40str Gem to Cael's, you get 269 STR, 344 STA, reforging Dodge to Exp, you ultimately 54 more STR with Cael's than Rage. how does 54 Strength not come to more DPS than a paltry 143 hit if you're already capped and 15 more mastery?

Can someone actually lay out the numbers and formulas for this? And not just go 'lol tank gear stfu noob'?

optional22 · 03/24/11, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Celliana

I am curious why there is a certain choice made in the Gear section.

Rage of Ages - Heroic - 215 STR, 322 STA, NO SOCKET, 143 Hit, 143 Mastery
Caelestraz's Will - Heroic - 229 STR, 344 STA, Socket, 138 Dodge, 128 Mastery

So, if you add a 40str Gem to Cael's, you get 269 STR, 344 STA, reforging Dodge to Exp, you ultimately 54 more STR with Cael's than Rage. how does 54 Strength not come to more DPS than a paltry 143 hit if you're already capped and 15 more mastery?

Can someone actually lay out the numbers and formulas for this? And not just go 'lol tank gear stfu noob'?

The section isn't updated seeing as Consider quit updating it. Caelestraz's Will is BIS.

rh8452 · 03/24/11, 10:53 AM

As someone pointed out in the unholy thread, Glyph of Pestilence is bugged and currently still provides its pre-4.0 effect when it was Glyph of Plague Strike - causing PS to hit for 20% more damage in addition to the pestilence range increase effect.

This is obviously virtually 0 DPS increase for unholy, but is a tiny DPS increase for us since we use PS at least once a minute, and it's not like any of the other majors are particularly stellar.

♦ Darkside · 03/25/11, 4:37 PM

That's not very likely, Oblit currently hits ~60% harder than Frost Strike for me, a 400 damage nerf to the base damage of the ability isn't going to make up that difference.

RukiaFT · 03/25/11, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Domenik

I think with the Oblit nerf all this means is we will now prioritize FS KM over Oblit KM

Please try and avoid just baseless speculation. Some people coming here might not know any better and actually listen.

For most top Frost parses, Obliterate is 7k+ damage ahead of Frost Strike on average hits. This becomes an even bigger difference in crits. From some quick math, I think the nerf will translate to at most maybe 1k less damage per obliterate and maybe around a 250 dps nerf. Even if my math is wrong, which is possible with all the different modifiers for Obliterate, I still don't think it's going to surmount a 7k differential between Obliterate and Frost Strike.

xbit · 03/25/11, 6:54 PM

Is this even a nerf or just a tooltip change? Obliterate's base damage is already 650 if you think of base damage as:

((AP/14)*2.4 + base damage + weapon damage)*1.6*other multipliers

It's equivalent to 1040 if base damage is:

(((AP/14)*2.4 + weapon damage)*1.6 + base damage)*other multipliers

This also applies to Blood Strike, explaining the pointless buff to it.

Mneme · 03/25/11, 7:28 PM

Re: Finding points for Chillblains:

Originally Posted by Gogusrl

I do believe it's a smaller dps loss if you take 2 points from Epidemic or Butchery than taking them from Improved Frost Presence.

Going 0/2 Butchery and 2/3 Epidemic is probably the best candidate. With 2/3 Epidemic and Outbreak, you'll still only Plague Strike once a minute and have 97% uptime on Blood Plague.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

ZeroEdge · 03/26/11, 12:31 AM

Just so you guys can skip worrying about the small supposed nerf to Obliterate:

New PTR notes. - Forums - World of Warcraft

It was a tooltip update, nothing more. No actual nerf was applied.