Frost DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, This Is My Life - Page 7

Vurge · 01/01/11, 12:01 AM

What about using a Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond for your meta until the requirements get fixed? I'm just thinking Mastery > Crit and the run speed allows you to get 50 mastery ench on your boots, since the 35 mastery + run speed ench requires maelstrom crystals, which this early in the expansion are kind of difficult to come by (unless you have gold to throw around, not everyone is loaded.)

sp00n · 01/01/11, 6:41 AM

Originally Posted by Vurge

What about using a Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond for your meta until the requirements get fixed? I'm just thinking Mastery > Crit and the run speed allows you to get 50 mastery ench on your boots, since the 35 mastery + run speed ench requires maelstrom crystals, which this early in the expansion are kind of difficult to come by (unless you have gold to throw around, not everyone is loaded.)

Well yeah, if you have two sockets that are worth gemming yellow, then that would certainly be an option. However, most socket bonuses just aren't worth gemming for, so you'd have to replace at least one red with an orange gem to activate the meta, which makes it a bit problematic.

@Consider
Could you post the EP values for both hit until the spell hit cap and over the spell hit cap (i.e. until the white hit cap)?
I'm trying to evaluate my gearing choices, and being DW and a draenei, it's so brutally easy to reach the special hit cap.
Just want to see by how much it is worse than other stats.
(I could of course use the simulator, but then the other EP values wouldn't match yours. I'd prefer to stick to the same scale.)

Nahela · 01/01/11, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Orctank

there is no proof to support that it actually exists and every reason to believe it does not. there is even a 359 trash drop that is listed as heroic despite the obvious discrepancy in ilvl.

The latter was simply a bug, the former we just need a confirmation from one of the guilds running Heroic mode content as to whether or not they've seen any of those items drop. Without them there's actually a fair amount of 'gear holes' for various classes. While it would certainly be something new for raiding, it would seem more awkward to not have them.

Originally Posted by Shareth

Unholy has the same bug. It appears when you spec into Runic Corruption. According to testing by other people (don't remember whom) Frost has this bug if you spec into Rime. This explains why Blood is not affected by it.

So this bug affects both Frost and Unholy in the same way.

The big difference is the bug is entirely affected by haste buffs/debuffs, which Runic Corruption itself largely negates. Frost gets hit quite hard under the effects of any attack speed/haste debuffs, each 'rune jump' adds a significant amount of dead time.

EDIT:
Also I have to disagree about your blurb on Endless Winter. Unless we're gearing the guide towards purely 25man raiding, there will often be scenarios where a 10man raid needs a DK to do the kicking due to a lack of other melee. There's also a fair amount of fights that have kicking components: Halfus with Shadow Nova, Arcanotron, Maloriak, Ascendant Council. Certainly worth an alternative 'kick spec' if you have the option, or potentially modifying your primary spec.

Kosinissa16 · 01/01/11, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by Nahela

The latter was simply a bug, the former we just need a confirmation from one of the guilds running Heroic mode content as to whether or not they've seen any of those items drop. Without them there's actually a fair amount of 'gear holes' for various classes. While it would certainly be something new for raiding, it would seem more awkward to not have them.

The big difference is the bug is entirely affected by haste buffs/debuffs, which Runic Corruption itself largely negates. Frost gets hit quite hard under the effects of any attack speed/haste debuffs, each 'rune jump' adds a significant amount of dead time.

EDIT:
Also I have to disagree about your blurb on Endless Winter. Unless we're gearing the guide towards purely 25man raiding, there will often be scenarios where a 10man raid needs a DK to do the kicking due to a lack of other melee. There's also a fair amount of fights that have kicking components: Halfus with Shadow Nova, Arcanotron, Maloriak, Ascendant Council. Certainly worth an alternative 'kick spec' if you have the option, or potentially modifying your primary spec.

Still I would not want to have to rely on a dk 100% of the time for an interrupt, as mentioned in prior posts iirc mind freeze is counted as a spell so we have to deal with the spell hit cap in that case, thus making not completely reliable. If it was crucial for say a 10 man then I suppose its debatable but I would prefer a shaman, mage or say a rogue, anything that is sell hit capped or only needs the specials cap to do it.

Nazek · 01/01/11, 7:09 PM

Just went and got my hurricane card and doing some testing on a boss dummy. Although I just realised after four tests I am missing 3% off the special cap as dual wield because of pvp spec but here are the results so far. This was self-buffed with 5.4% haste in frost presence.

edit: strikes = obliterate, frost strike, melee, plague strike, blood strike and the proc% is just (procs/strikes)*100
Also forgot to mention it does also crit and my average crit % was 4.3% while on my character sheet I see 8.39% crit chance with horn of winter on so taking the 4.8% boss crit suppression into account it looks like it might be based on the users melee crit chance. Need more and better data on this though keep it coming.

sp00n · 01/02/11, 8:25 PM

Yeah, the thing is, PPM isn't just procs/minute. It's procs/minute for only auto attacks.
The % to proc (from which the theoretical construct 'PPM' derives) is calculated by the weapon speed, which is then also used for special attacks.

Current testings indicate a 1 PPM for Hurricane, but without an internal cooldown (or a very low one).

royaljester · 01/03/11, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

@Consider
Could you post the EP values for both hit until the spell hit cap and over the spell hit cap (i.e. until the white hit cap)?
I'm trying to evaluate my gearing choices, and being DW and a draenei, it's so brutally easy to reach the special hit cap.
Just want to see by how much it is worse than other stats.
(I could of course use the simulator, but then the other EP values wouldn't match yours. I'd prefer to stick to the same scale.)

I'd like to see this as well. While I'm not draenei, I can get past the yellow cap of 5% fairly easily and want to see the relative value to the crit/mastery that I'd be reforging that in to instead.

@Spoon: You say Hurricane trink is coming in at 1ppm, but unholy 2h is seeing 2-3 ppm right now, putting it below Heart of Rage and License to Slay, but with DW Frost, wouldn't that go up, not down? I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I just saw several tests that shows 2+ ppm for 2h UH.

Nahela · 01/03/11, 10:57 AM

It's worth noting that the expertise cap is actually 781 for some unknown reason. 780 will give you 25, but 781 will give you 26. I'm really not sure what causes this outside of 1 expertise actually being something like 30.1 expertise rating. I do know, however, that it's quite frustrating when reforging as there's really no combination in this tier that will get you 781.

Consider · 01/03/11, 11:23 AM

Expertise works in partial amounts; 780 rating is worth more than 779 rating, even if they both show as 25, and it's not vitally important to have it perfectly capped; in fact, it's less of a loss to go one under then to go one over.

Anyways, yeah, I'll fix it to 781.

Afabar · 01/03/11, 12:50 PM

The sim often give weird resuld with haste value and always did. The more complex the priority is, higher is the chance that is occurs. Haste is a stat that add a lot of randomness and can in a fight add lot more dps than it should.
It's easy to see using stat scaling function in the sim.

deandrez · 01/03/11, 1:59 PM

I really do not understand how Darkmoon: Hurricane is better then License to Slay. I mean License to Slay has a 97% up time on fights at 10 stacks and you can reforge hit>mastery. Hurricane also has a hefty chance to miss. I have tried parses all of yesterday In 3 minute intervals it shows me at 5-9 procs. Therefore a trinket like Might of the Ocean or Rajh Trinket proves more dps in situations. Only considering you can move also reforge those items to whatever your lacking to maximize mastery and crit. But if someone can show me how Hurricane is better please feel free.

royaljester · 01/03/11, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by deandrez

I really do not understand how Darkmoon: Hurricane is better then License to Slay. I mean License to Slay has a 97% up time on fights at 10 stacks and you can reforge hit>mastery. Hurricane also has a hefty chance to miss. I have tried parses all of yesterday In 3 minute intervals it shows me at 5-9 procs. Therefore a trinket like Might of the Ocean or Rajh Trinket proves more dps in situations. Only considering you can move also reforge those items to whatever your lacking to maximize mastery and crit. But if someone can show me how Hurricane is better please feel free.

(From the Unholy Thread):

Originally Posted by Consider

I had some kind soul send me some logs of the them raiding with the trinket as well, and your results seem to confirm theirs: the proc hovers between 250 and 300 dps, placing the trinket ahead of [Crushing Weight] and [Fury of Angerforge], but still behind [License to Slay] and [Heart of Rage].

For 2H, anyways. DW will have a higher proc rate, of course (substantially more white attacks, yes, but also more yellow strikes via higher Runic Corruption uptime), and would probably be able to push it ahead.

This is my current inkling towards it being better. It's only one parse, so hopefully more show up. Granted, if we have more DW Frost testing (as I hope to do Tuesday/Wednesday), we might see that it actually is worse, or a the very least, confirm its superiority.

deandrez · 01/03/11, 2:31 PM

Royaljester, Hurricane is about 1.8-2.5% of my total damage in live parses with 5% haste. In Kahlorie's DK sim its saying its 7% of total damage right below HB which I find highly doubtful. I suppose the EP values of this trinket are a bit inflated since it can only proc on average 2.3 times per min in over 60 parses. Oh and it misses due to us not being spell capped.

emothianes · 01/03/11, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by deandrez

Royaljester, Hurricane is about 1.8-2.5% of my total damage in live parses with 5% haste. In Kahlorie's DK sim its saying its 7% of total damage right below HB which I find highly doubtful. I suppose the EP values of this trinket are a bit inflated since it can only proc on average 2.3 times per min in over 60 parses. Oh and it misses due to us not being spell capped.

I've had very similar results with slightly less haste, it seems to be fairly consistent at 300 or more dps. Fairly impressive for a proc.

Afabar · 01/03/11, 5:02 PM

When I created Hurricane trinket in the sim, I didn't had data regarding, I made it with a 10% chance which is of course higher that it should.