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Old 06/10/11, 3:02 PM   #136
Leucifer
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Shu'halo
Originally Posted by frostystare View Post
What is the point of the death strike anyways? From what I've seen - since we are the tank class without a shield, it's basically replacing that. It levels out our damage taken by allowing a heal and a shield for incoming damage. Makes us less volitale to be healed. And why aren't more high end tanks speccing into what RAWR says if it's superior? I've checked a few dozen from around both my server and online and no one seems to do that. It's mastery heavy to say the least.
You hit the nail on the head.
Back in WotLK, a lot of DK's figured out that, hey, Blood tanking makes up for the lack of a shield with incoming heals, and blood tanking became popular. Blizzard noted the trend and made that the de facto tank tree. Heck, they even turned around back in 3.3 and gave druids a similar damage mitigation to the blood shield, as they wer the other non-shield-bearing tank.

Break some new ground. Try running with what Rawr says and see what you get as a result. Get some data, come back with it. Research it, test it, review it. Form an intelligent idea on your own (and I'm not trying to be a jerk in saying that).

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Old 06/16/11, 2:56 AM   #137
Thepeeperus
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
is there an avoidance cap for dodge and parry? i wasnt able to find it through all of this, most likely i just missed it.

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Old 06/16/11, 6:37 PM   #138
Viggers
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Bloodfeather (EU)
Originally Posted by modafoquer View Post
Hey guys im usign almost the exact build on the Frost DW DPS build and my DPS gets around 11 - 14k DPS on Raids i would like to know if anyone could gimme some feedback on whats wrong or if thats the normal DPS on the build.

heres my armory: Aahrus @ Gurubashi - Game - World of Warcraft

rotation: Horn of winter,Obliterate,Frost Strike,Howling blast (when it procs)
Diseases should be priority number one! Assuming you didnt just forget to type that. You need 100% uptime on diseases because each disease adds 12.5% damage to obliterate. With your gear you should be doing a bit higher than 14k and definatley higher than 11k. for example i have 357 ilvl and do 18k + on progress nights overall including the wipes. You are missing a gem in your boots and enchants on a lot of gear. You also havent got the additional socket on your belt and havent used your +67 STR gems from being JC. So fix that and make sure your keeping diseases up at ALL times. Use an addon to track them such as tellmewhen. And make sure you have an addon to track your runes such as docs debug runes which is linked on the frost dps thread first post.

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Old 06/16/11, 8:06 PM   #139
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Thepeeperus View Post
is there an avoidance cap for dodge and parry? i wasnt able to find it through all of this, most likely i just missed it.
Technically, yes. Each of them caps at 75%. It's like that because the calculations for diminishing returns actually use the cap to help determine what the final avoidance values are.

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Old 06/16/11, 11:51 PM   #140
Thepeeperus
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
fantastic. thank you. is there a way to figure out your total avoidance? or just add up the percentages? im more than a bit new to tanking.

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Old 06/17/11, 4:13 AM   #141
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Thepeeperus View Post
fantastic. thank you. is there a way to figure out your total avoidance? or just add up the percentages? im more than a bit new to tanking.
You can Dodge, Parry or be Missed, so against an equal level mob you can simply add up your character sheet Dodge, Parry and Miss (5% unless you fancy race-changing to Night Elf in which case it would be 7%).

Note, however, that most mobs of interest (including all raid bosses) you fight naturally suppress some of each of these through being higher level than you.

I presume that the supression through level is that same as that under the old Weapon Skill/Defense scheme for higher level attackers, i.e. 0.2% off each avoidance type per level of difference.

So, for a raid boss your total avoidance is: (Dodge Chance - 0.6) + (Parry Chance - 0.6) + (5% Miss - 0.6), or more simply: Dodge% + Parry% + 3.2%.

P.s. What Charybdis says about the Dodge and Parry caps is perfectly true, but as it's impossible to get anywhere near this level of either Dodge or Parry in current (or likely future) gearing, it's unlikely to worth worrying about too much! It's also not possible to reach 100% combined avoidance through gearing or buffs (as it was with the old Lichborne for example), so really the simplest answer is: you can't cap out avoidance, even though it's theoretically possible.

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Old 06/18/11, 7:01 PM   #142
Lib3ration
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Uldaman
Which has a higher DPS average?

I've read through many forums and have been playing only mainly on a 2H Frost spec, but would like to know, does DW frost have a higher sustained DPS than 2H Frost? I have been using the Epidemic 2h build from here http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t121704-..._1_way_we_get/ . Aside from gear and all I've only been managing 11k sustained DPS. Any suggestions?

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Old 06/19/11, 11:48 AM   #143
Xadeas
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
The Sha'tar (EU)
2H frost = huge burst, DW frost = just a little bit less DPS but is more stable than 2h.

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Old 06/19/11, 1:02 PM   #144
Justin Sane
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Xadeas View Post
2H frost = huge burst, DW frost = just a little bit less DPS but is more stable than 2h.
Actually, not really. Thanks to MoFW, 2H isn't affected so much by strings of bad RNG, so it's actually more stable than DW.
Originally Posted by Lib3ration:1951669
Aside from gear and all I've only been managing 11k sustained DPS. Any suggestions?
Well, it would be easier if you linked an armory page, but general advice: make sure your diseases don't fall off, keep runes on CD and don't waste RP and KM/Rime procs. Try an addon called CLCDK, 2H can be a bit frantic at times.

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Old 06/19/11, 5:37 PM   #145
Lib3ration
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Uldaman
Originally Posted by Justin Sane View Post
Actually, not really. Thanks to MoFW, 2H isn't affected so much by strings of bad RNG, so it's actually more stable than DW.
Well, it would be easier if you linked an armory page, but general advice: make sure your diseases don't fall off, keep runes on CD and don't waste RP and KM/Rime procs. Try an addon called CLCDK, 2H can be a bit frantic at times.
Zerosven @ Uldaman - Game - World of Warcraft

If you currently see tanking gear on this its because I wanted to see what my gear score was according to blizzard as far as tanking. When I log on tonight I will log out with dps gear on. But on that note can anyone else make any suggestions for my current tank gear? What should I gem/enchant for if I wanted to tank, so far my guildies have been informing me to get lots of mastery for DS shield and maintain a balance for my dodge and parry. Any suggestions would be helpful.

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Old 06/20/11, 6:59 AM   #146
Ragury
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Proudmoore (EU)
Hi Guys,
I have a question about WHEN the calculation for the Unholy-Passive "Unholy Might" is done?
The change in 4.2
Unholy Might now increases Strength by 20%, up from 5%.
sounds like a BIG buff to me... but my question is:
will these additional 15% Strength count WITH all strength-bonus from gear... or is it calculated on the "basic-strength" BEFORE gear-bonuses?
and IF it is calculated WITH the strength from gear... will the glyph "Glyph of Raise Dead"
Your Ghoul receives an additional 40% of your Strength and 40% of your Stamina.
be calculated with the new "20% more strength" too?
thx in advance

Last edited by Ragury : 06/20/11 at 7:41 AM.

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Old 06/20/11, 8:20 AM   #147
VoidStar
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Ragury View Post
Hi Guys,
I have a question about WHEN the calculation for the Unholy-Passive "Unholy Might" is done?
The change in 4.2

sounds like a BIG buff to me... but my question is:
will these additional 15% Strength count WITH all strength-bonus from gear... or is it calculated on the "basic-strength" BEFORE gear-bonuses?
and IF it is calculated WITH the strength from gear... will the glyph "Glyph of Raise Dead"

be calculated with the new "20% more strength" too?
thx in advance
The percentage change to Strength from Unholy Might (and virtually all other similar percentage increase to stat abilities) is calculated after gear, and also multiplicatively with other effects of that nature (such as Kings).

The Glyph of Raise Dead increases the percentage of your Strength that is used to calculate the Ghoul's Strength and thus your Ghoul will indeed get a boost from the Unholy Might change, and given that he scales with 110% of your Strength when glyphed it'll be a slightly bigger boost than you!

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Old 06/23/11, 9:52 AM   #148
osodawiz
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Muradin
Is anyone else experiencing high threat/aggro as DW Frost? I cant seem not to pull from most tanks. I'm still working on gear but I seem to pull a lot and spend time just auto attacking. Any help or guidance would be great. Taidaishar @ Muradin - Game - World of Warcraft

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Old 06/23/11, 11:08 AM   #149
Hawcha
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by osodawiz View Post
Is anyone else experiencing high threat/aggro as DW Frost? I cant seem not to pull from most tanks. I'm still working on gear but I seem to pull a lot and spend time just auto attacking. Any help or guidance would be great. Taidaishar @ Muradin - Game - World of Warcraft

Yeah with DW frost if you proc KM your threat will spike at times. When I was DW frost on my DK i would pull aggro with my opening attacks often even when I am attacking there target. This was caused by KM procs early. My opening is usually Outbreak followed by 3 Obliterates. At least one usually crits sometime more. When that does at the start of a pull the tank usually doesn't have enough threat on it. There are a few things you can try.

1. Try giving the tank a few seconds 3-5 maybe more to generate some threat before you open. But remember if you get back to back KM procs you can still pull aggro as you will be doing major burst.

2. You can try an 2H unholy spec. The damage out put is a bit lower but there won't be any major spikes in threat normally. (Raids are different story)

3. Also try attacking the target the tank is attacking. Remember that frost has high burst damage. Easy to get 40K+ crits.

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Old 06/28/11, 8:15 AM   #150
OldGeezer
Glass Joe
 
OldGeezer's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Разувий (EU)
Hello everyone. Can somebody tell me what stat preferred for tanks DK? in this thread i saw that hit/exp is main, but RAWR advice me to reforge hit/exp out to parry and gem for stamina so i'm confused a bit... i'm gonna spec to tank and wish to know priorities.
And i also loaded several DK in rawr and someone have hit capped but other have no hit at all but have mastery maxed...

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